[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Kkumar

Vow, what a wonderful article. Finished the entire article from page 1 to the last in one sitting. Gives an excellent first hand insight on culture and way of life in not just Finland but also the US, that too from a global citizen like you. Kudos to you for the effort that you have taken to pen down your experiences. Thank you for sharing. Eagerly waiting for the next episode.

Thanks for taking the time to read through the thread and for the kind words. I'll admit it's a very long one.

Next episodes would, unfortunately, not be as disruptive. I've promised my family that I'll anchor us to Finland for the next 10 yrs till daughter turns 18. Next big decision when she decides where she'll study.

[ninjatalli]

Love the education related updates - it’s quite refreshing to hear about the manners how the education system works over there. Please do keep sharing.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Love the education related updates - it’s quite refreshing to hear about the manners how the education system works over there. Please do keep sharing.

For sure. To be honest, Daughter's education is a Big Magnet holding us grounded to Finland. The Ghost of Tughlaq has already started hovering around my wife now. She's been talking about relocating to a different country.



The only way to stop this manifesting further is by keeping Daughter's education prospect as the anchor.

Will keep you posted.

[Jeroen]

Thanks for updating your thread. Much appreciated. I was very interested to read about your experience with the Finish school system. As you mentioned, it is considered to be exceptionally good in the western world..

Difficult calls for you and your wife about the languages. We have been in a similar situation. My wife is a speech and language therapist. She always says that most young kids deal very well with learning additional languages at a young age. No matter what, the language spoken at school and with their friends is likely to be their first language.

It is important to stick to one language prior the kids going to (pre) school. We always spoke English to our kids when a home and when amongst ourselves. Every one of our three children is totally fluent in English, but their first language remains Dutch. Because ultimately they went to Dutch schools, had Dutch friends, worked at Dutch companies etc.

I look forward to your updates!

Jeroen

[Jignesh]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Took the gamble and enrolled her into Finnish pre-school. It was a big gamble since she knew only elementary finnish whereas the other kids were all conversing in Fluent finnish. It was a bit of a struggle for her but we're really proud of how rapdily she has learned the language - a very difficult language. Heck wife and I gave up on learning it a long time ago. True testimony was when our daughter had a fight with another kid in Finnish and she won !!!

That is a commendable decision.

Let me narrate a personal story. I was deputed to Germany in 2014 and then to Netherlands and my daughter (International) schooling was sponsored by the Company.
In 2017 I took up a local Job in Germany and my daughter was about to start year 5 (Secondary school here). Since she was studying in International English school so far, she was reluctant to join local German School. We gave in and enrolled her in (partially) State sponsored English school (linked to IB Curriculum).

Fast forward to today, she is in year 12, IB Curriculum demands a lot from students and ultimately she has to join Germany University next year. She has to appear for German Language qualifying exam to apply in German Universities and will have a difficult time starting her University education in German language.

We (also she) now feel it would have been a wise decision to put her in German school back in 2017...

Thanks,

[StarrySky]

Let me add my perspective on the Finnish education system. I have had one child go through the system, and the other one is still in school. Since we have all probably heard the positives, let me put down some things that are not so apparent.

Up until students get to 7th grade, students have only one teacher (homeroom teacher) for most subjects and quite often the same teacher continues with the students to the next academic year until they reach 7th grade. The teacher has a lot of freedom in deciding how to teach the national curriculum. So, two teachers handling two different classes (homerooms) in the same grade in the same school may have very different approaches. As there are no standardized exams, there is no way to really know if all the students in the same grade are at a comparable level at the end of the year. If your child gets a good teacher, lucky child, if the teacher is not good, oh well!

Coming to the students, while they have less pressure, the onus is more on them to evolve a method they can follow to study. They do get help from the teachers, but the system doesn't "push" them, so motivating oneself is very important. There is not much homework, and it is easy to think that what they learn in class is "enough". It often is in smaller grades, if they are attentive in class. But if they don't get used to studying at home, they will find it more and more difficult as they go to higher grades.

After 6th grade, they get separate teachers for subjects, and their grades also are awarded on more stringent criteria. So the level of work they needed to put in and the level of understanding of a topic they had to demonstrate to get grade X or Y in 6th grade is usually no longer enough to get similar grades. This is where the role the homeroom teacher played up until 6th grade in getting their basics right makes a real difference.

As the same teacher handles most of the subjects until 6th grade, it is also easy for the teacher to schedule any tests and homework so as not to put students under much pressure. This changes in 7th grade as each teacher will schedule tests and homework independently. So they suddenly start getting work from all directions. If they haven't developed a habit of studying at home, they will surely feel overwhelmed initially.

Another thing we often hear is how the system is not test-oriented, there is no competition, students compete with themselves etc. This is true to a great extent, and the grades are known to the student, teacher and parents alone and not to other students (of course, kids discuss grades among their friends). But, when there are limited seats there will always be tests and competition. The first time the students come up on true "competition" is when they have to go to the upper secondary schools (Lukio) after their 9th grade. The best schools have their own entrance tests and the students also need high GPA to get in. Even if the student is not aiming for the best Lukios, they are still ranked by their GPAs in other schools they apply to. So, of course, there is "pressure" on the students. It's just that it's not their teacher or school putting them under pressure on a daily basis to improve their grades. Students' grades from 8th grade onwards count towards their final GPA in 9th, so that's two years of pressure. But, Lukio education is mandatory in Finland. The system will provide a study place for the student somewhere. So I guess, we could also say that the students only need to put themselves under as much pressure as they want.

The 3 years of Lukio is a high pressure environment, especially something like IB. Their workload in Lukio is even higher than in their years prior, and the grading is even stricter. If, as I said above, the student has not created their own system or approach to study, they will struggle in Lukio.

Based on my experience, most of what we hear in India about the Finnish education system applies till 6th grade - with often a large dependency on the competence of one individual teacher. After that, just like anywhere else in the world, there is pressure and good results need as much work and effort as you need elsewhere.

What is different compared to India is that the pressure from the family and society is much less. In India there is always pressure to get a "good education", which will land you a "respectable job". In Finland, there is no shame if a student does not want to go to university, or if they choose a vocational training of their liking etc. I very much doubt if kids of Indian parents in Finland feel any less pressure in higher grades than they would do in India

Among my two kids the elder one was in English medium and younger one is in Finnish medium. There is a noticeable difference between the level of support students get in both systems. The Finnish medium provides more help to students and there are more tools/support available to students. The Finnish medium also has weighted curriculum system, where students from 3rd grade onwards can have more emphasis on various subjects like math, science, arts, music, sports, IT etc. So the kids have the opportunity to choose their own study paths from a young age. The admission to the weighted curriculum programs is based on entrance tests (in 3rd grade and 7th grade).

Leaving this shameless plug here (I am associated with this YouTube channel):

https://youtu.be/DpDUR5aK6Sg

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

My wife is a speech and language therapist. She always says that most young kids deal very well with learning additional languages at a young age. No matter what, the language spoken at school and with their friends is likely to be their first language.

Indeed true. As a matter of fact, our daughter even Dreams in Finnish off late. we have heard her sleep talking in Finnish in the middle of the night .

Originally Posted by Jeroen

It is important to stick to one language prior the kids going to (pre) school. We always spoke English to our kids when a home and when amongst ourselves.
Jeroen

Correct. Mine too has only heard English at home from her birth since we always said, Global Citizen first. Local next.

Originally Posted by Jignesh

We (also she) now feel it would have been a wise decision to put her in German school back in 2017...

Thanks,

Thanks for the validation.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Let me add my perspective on the Finnish education system.

Was wondering when you'd check in with your first person POV.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

What is different compared to India is that the pressure from the family and society is much less. In India there is always pressure to get a "good education", which will land you a "respectable job".

I very much doubt if kids of Indian parents in Finland feel any less pressure in higher grades than they would do in India

LOL. Indian parents will be Indian parents regardless of where we live.
Pressure won't be any different. Despite us living here since 12 yrs, we have not learnt their way of life as much as we should.

Subconsciously we have been setting expectations to our daughter about what we think she could take up as profession. This is so wrong and we hope to stop it soon.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Leaving this shameless plug here (I am associated with this YouTube channel):
https://Youtu.be/DpDUR5aK6Sg

Glad you did. I was making my notes by watching this and the other video which has the Kids perspective ->

https://youtu.be/8PIrfvHyoeM?si=jvW1wnpGAxZvuJ8b

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Subconsciously we have been setting expectations to our daughter about what we think she could take up as profession. This is so wrong and we hope to stop it soon.

I wouldn't totally stop it

Yes, nudging them towards a specific profession or career isn't good, but in my view, it is still important to push them to choose what they want to do once they finish Lukio.

The reason is that then the children can have a good idea of which universities offer whatever course they want, what are the entry requirements and so on. The system provides some flexibility in the subjects that the students can take up in Lukio, use it wisely! It makes no sense to study subjects you won't need based on your future plans. They can study subjects that they actually like. I think that's much better than studying "something" in Lukio and then at university stage choosing from options that they may not really like.

[14000rpm]

Sisu - A Finnish word that roughly translates to Grit, Tenacity, Stoic Determination, Resilience etc.

The popular Finnish movie Sisu aptly depicts the same.

Now why am I talking about this?
Well, I happened to see an example of the same a few days ago.

I needed some professional hand at some cabinetry work I am doing as part my Vacation time home remodeling chores. I had sent out the request to a Gig worker platform and one of the contractors, a mid 50's Finnish individual, accepted my request immediately.

When he came over, we quickly got to work and through the few hours, struck a few conversations over various topics.

Turns out, he is quite an educated and well-experienced individual who has worked in Mid/Sr mgmt. roles in various Tech companies last of which being Nokia from where he was laid off. Many people that got laid off from Nokia found new jobs in the same sector but some did not and he was one of them.

But, he tells me, he didn't look back and quickly started a one-man company to utilize the one skill he believed he had outside of Technology- Wood Working/Carpentry. He runs his own shop supplying to local businesses and, in his free time, engages in part-time gig work such as mine.

My observation - He didn't seem to be guy that hung his boots and got into Depression since jobs didn't come his way. He didn't pause life in the wake of adversities. Now that, to me, is an excellent example of Sisu.

I've heard of many such examples of Finnair pilots who, after being laid off, changed hats and did something else completely different. One such ex-pilot came over to install a Heat Pump and Solar panels in my friends house.

It's really heartening to see how these individual's don't give up on life in rough times. They just bend it and move on.

[14000rpm]

Time and again, ever since I moved to Finland in 2012, I keep being asked about the darkness during winter.

Some queries are out of sheer curiosity and some out of intrigue after reading a lot of articles about depression during the shorter days etc. etc.

In fact an article about 2024 winter solstice (shortest day of the year) triggered a discussion with some acquaintances who were choosing to move back to Spain just coz of the darkness. Not the cold, only the darkness.

While it is true that some parts of the world are drowned in 100% darkness for some weeks/months during winter, it is not so in Helsinki.

Here is the snapshot of Sunrise/sunset in Helsinki during this years Winter solstice which was on 21st Dec '24.



As you can see, there is about 6 hrs. of daylight not including dawn and dusk which can add a bit more. Granted it is not as much sunlight as southern parts of the world.

This lack of sufficient sunlight hasn't bothered us at all. Let's just say, we have accepted it.



Part of the reason why it is ok is due to the snow cover which makes it bright all around. Life goes on normal. Of course with the right kind of weather appropriate clothing of course and multi-vitamins to compensate for the lack of the same from the sun.

We attempt a bit of skiing, daughter enjoys skating, going down hill on Sleds, we go on winter hikes etc. There is a certain magical feeling when there is snow cover and the sun is shining. Well, it is just another form of beauty.

However, I'll admit, this year seems quite dull and depressing.
Reason - Lack of snow.

Pics of the woods next to my house taken last year this time.





Same views from a few days ago.






This winter, I understood why my Spanish acquaintances said what they said about Depression.

is it global warming? is it just a rare occurrence? who knows.
Heck, there has been a lack of snow in Santa Claus's backyard of Rovaniemi (Finland) as well triggering mass cancellations too.

Some of the ski slopes and cross country skiing tracks are pumping artificial snow to keep the enthusiasts coming and this has led to some crowding. Most others have traveled to Northern Finland to some of the hills that still has some snow.

I was enroute to Yllas (Finnish Lapland) as well but the Brit Bloke aka my Range Rover Sport chose to become Moody and protest and have a holiday of his own. More on this on my ownership thread. (Meet My Ride | Range Rover Sport P400e Autobiography)

Hence, here I am, sitting at home penning this post staring at the dull and depressing views while reading snow forecast reports.

Gosh, I can now see why some feel the way they do about the Winter's here.

Note to self - This too shall pass.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

Time and again, ever since I moved to Finland in 2012, I keep being asked about the darkness during winter. .

You should point out that the darkness in the winter is made up for during summertime with the sun hardly setting for several months.

I haven’t been to Helsinki for quite some time, but for decades I spend a lot of time in Stockholm. I must admit, the worst period was always the late autumn with the sun setting early, with grey, drizzly weather for sometimes weeks. Once there was snow it was fine.

But summers in Stockholm are fantastic, loved the really long evening being out and about.

Jeroen

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You should point out that the darkness in the winter is made up for during summertime with the sun hardly setting for several months.

100% agreed. the long days don't bother at all.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I haven’t been to Helsinki for quite some time, but for decades I spend a lot of time in Stockholm. I must admit, the worst period was always the late autumn with the sun setting early, with grey, drizzly weather for sometimes weeks. Once there was snow it was fine.

Ditto for Helsinki. Replace Stockholm with Helsinki and your experience would be pretty much the same. The transition period is the worst.

[Mr.Bentley]

Thats an amazing RL! Enjoyed every bit of it!
Your journey in life is inspiring, shows results of having courage to try out a completely new environment than the one we're born in.

I've been to a few countries, albeit only for visiting. I like to read (and experience if possible) about new cultures. Nordic is my favorite, and your log took my interest to a different level. Thanks for penning it down for us!

(OT: Frequency of the posts is scary, LOL. I'm glad I've read it now!)

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

me: What? Finland?

Quite a journey isn't it! Going back to the first post now give a different kick, knowing what has happened next!

Wishing you and your family an amazing life and enough fuel for all your future endeavours!
Keep up updated!

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

Thats an amazing RL!

Thanks for spending time on the thread and for kind words.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

(OT: Frequency of the posts is scary, LOL. I'm glad I've read it now!)

When replies to posts dropped, frequency dropped. your reply motivates me to update the thread again.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bentley

Quite a journey isn't it! Going back to the first post now give a different kick, knowing what has happened next!

Totally. I didn't want to move here and now I don't want to leave from here.

[14000rpm]

Ever since the situation in Russia-Ukraine developed, we are constantly been asked the same Question- is Finland next?
Well, Finland used to be ruled by Russia for a while and they did their 2 bits to convert Finland to Russia but failed. The emotions run deep in Russia which is the prime reason Finland is always prepared for an attack from the East.
I keep talking to many Finn's about the same thing and I get an overwhelming positive tone from them all. This positive sentiment was there prior to NATO as well and is largely due to the level of prepared Finland has despite there being peace since WW2.

The Video below depicts the State of preparedness very well. Take a look.

https://youtu.be/Msfrit12u0M?si=W5N43Mu0S_-iZRsF

As for us residents, we all have Bunkers in close proximity to run to should the need arise. These bunkers have heavy steel doors that ensure max safety.
However, the sad bit is that pet's are not allowed. We have a Labrador that would not be allowed in there. I have a small storage area under my house. It has only stones for a floor and is not finished. It was never meant to be. Me and few of my neighbors are preparing one of our storage areas just so we pet-owners can hole up there. Not much- Just some mattress, lighting, water and such.