Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

ST7677 · 9th August 2007, 16:37

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

Vid6639 · 9th August 2007, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

Which tyres? how old? which rim size? are they alloys?

amit27 · 9th August 2007, 17:47

On my new Indica Turbo I wanted to fit tubeless tyres indica comes with stock 165/65/14 tyres I am looking for 175/65/14 tubeless tyres . Dealer is telling me that tubeless are effective only with Alloy wheels How to go about this ?

Lukeskywalker · 9th August 2007, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

If his car is running on steel rims and not on alloys, maybe there is a small deformation which in turn causes air to leak out.

Else, there might be the problem with the neck(read valve pin) of the tire/s in question.

Another unlikely problem could be a bad coincidence of all the 4 tires having small punctures (tiny ones) which, in case of tubeless tires would take a long time to deflate completely.

ravibhat · 9th August 2007, 18:02

Tubeless tyres have its own plus and minus points. Plus point is with alloys they are safe one even without alloys if RIM is stock one which had come with tubeless tyre its safe bet.

Tube less tyre give better comfort as well and I feel Michellin/bridgestone/yoko are good brands as far as tubeless tyre in India.

In Indian condition for cars tubeless tyres may be not as good as tubed tyres because of bad roads/ local garage guy has less knowledge on it.

Main drawback of tubeless is its still new in India, only in good cities or if we tyre kit we can repair puncture in tubeless tyre otherwise it would be difficult unless we find good garaga wala who will repair puncture.

Tubeless tyres once ended up with external damage like side cut/buldge we can't use them at all, that it they are waste. I have similar situation in my Innova and not using that tyre.

Regards,

Ravi.

horsepower · 9th August 2007, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit27

On my new Indica Turbo I wanted to fit tubeless tyres indica comes with stock 165/65/14 tyres I am looking for 175/65/14 tubeless tyres . Dealer is telling me that tubeless are effective only with Alloy wheels How to go about this ?

Dude, Swift comes with factory fitted tubeless tyres on stock wheels. I guess there is no problem in it. Change your dealer before changing the tires.

rjstyles69 · 9th August 2007, 18:49

Quote:

Tubeless tyres once ended up with external damage like side cut/buldge we can't use them at all, that it they are waste. I have similar situation in my Innova and not using that tyre.

I think its recommended that we follow the same with the tube type tyres too. Why take chances ?

DieselFan · 9th August 2007, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

Monthly drop of 2-3 PSIs is normal.

ravibhat · 9th August 2007, 18:57

You are right rjstyles what I heard is one can repair few damages caused to tubed tyres and taxy segment will use it. Taxy guy told me he would buy my tyres including damaged tyre (it has small side buldge) when I change my tyre.

I have no clue about pricing since when I decide to sell it it might have completed 25,000km.

Regards,

Ravi.

rks · 9th August 2007, 20:08

The advantages of tubeless tyres have already been spelt out. I feel that it is wise to go tubeless if there is a lot of highway driving involved. Tubetype tyres should be used if the car is confined mainly to the city, if the roads are very bad and also if the car is mainly chauffeur-driven. Most of these drivers will not take the care needed to maintain tubeless tyres.

In general alloy wheels are preferrable for tubeless tyres, but steel rims are also fine. The only catch with steel rims is that the smaller ones (12" and 13") are prone to bending if driven roughly over bad roads. I had tubeless tyres on 6-year old stock rims for about 10000 kms and they held air perfectly. But the rims got bent at the fringes (not enough to let out air) when I hit a couple of potholes and so I switched to alloys. Since then everything has been smooth for the next 11000 kms or so.

Regarding maintenance of tubeless tyres, some care is needed. Firstly, one needs to frequently inspect these tyres to see if there are any nails stuck in or if there is any other damage. If any nails are found, then one should check the tyre pressures to see if there is a significant loss and then if necessary fill up and drive straight to a well-equipped tyre shop to get the puncture fixed. I have caught nails on three occasions in the first 21000 kms with tubeless tyres and on two of these there were punctures.

Secondly, it is strongly recommended to have a portable air compressor. If there is any loss of pressure (which would become clear either on inspection or by the handling of the car or upon checking with a gauge) then there is no need to change the wheel; one only needs to fill up and drive straight to a tyre shop. This is one of the great advantages of tubeless tyres, if one is willing to invest about Rs. 800 in the air compressor.

Third point regarding tubeless tyre maintenance-- have your own accurate pressure gauge (Rs 500 upwards) and check the tyre pressures once in two weels or prior to every long trip. Frequent checking of tyre pressures will alert us to slow leakage and then the problem can be promptly attended to. I caught a slow puncture this way and with great difficulty, the puncture was finally traced to the failure of a previously fixed puncture.

The main point with respect to tubeless tyres is that they they can be much more rewarding in terms of safety and handling provided one takes the minimum amount of care needed. Ideally one must never allow a tubeless tyre to go flat and catch slow leakages as early as possible by being alert; if this is done, fixing these leakages/punctures can be planned and there is no need to even change a wheel.

Someone reported a monthly drop of 2-3 psi. This can happen due to many reasons. The obvious one is that there could be slow air leakage. One should check for valve leakage with soap solution. Leakage from the bead area is very unlikely unless the rims are badly bent. Equally likely is that temperatures variations could cause some change in the readings e.g. if the tyre pressures are not measured in cold condition. Also the same accurate gauge must be used for comparison purposes. I found that when I set the pressures under reasonably warm weather and then when I checked the pressures in very cold weather two weeks later (with monsoon just setting in) there was a drop of 1-1.5 psi in all the tyres. But if there is not much variation in the ambient temperature, the pressures dropped by atmost 0.5 psi in two weeks (cold tyres).

1100D · 9th August 2007, 20:31

I, for one, was a non-beleiver in Tubeless. But all that changed when I find nails in my tubeless tyre but without having the tyre deflated a bit. This was observed after having done a long distance trip thru some real bad roads. What a Tubeless tyre needs is a strong rim lip and hence alloys are highly recommended.

However I cannot fathom how can someone drive on a tubed tyre that has a sidewall cut? Goes a long way in pointing out the expertise of our experts.

esteem_lover · 9th August 2007, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

I am sure your friend is running them on steel rims which have rusted. please ask him to check the rims.

Samurai · 9th August 2007, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST7677

A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?

Simple, he has a tiny nail in the tire. Just take it to a good tire shop, they'll find it and plug it.

esteem_lover · 9th August 2007, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai

Simple, he has a tiny nail in the tire. Just take it to a good tire shop, they'll find it and plug it.

You are right, that could be the reason as well.

Didn't think of that since i have not had a puncture so far.

Thad E Ginathom · 9th August 2007, 21:58

Is the design of the wheel for a tubeless tire different?

I have no idea, having last seen tubes as a small child... but that seal between the tire and the rubber is such a vital part of the whole thing that it wouldn't surprise me if it were specially designed lip --- perhaps not the same on a tube wheel?

There is no requirement for alloy: in my home country all car tires are tubeless, whereas, as here, alloys are optional luxury items or come with the more expensive cars. Vast numbers of cars combine steel wheels with tubeless tires.

9th August 2007, 16:37	#16
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	A friend of mine has this complaint of his tubeless tyres loosing pressure very often. He gets monthly air check, and every time, he fills 30 and is left with only around 27-28 psi by next visit. And this happens with all four tyres. Any explanation?
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 17:47	#18
amit27 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Guragaon Posts: 173 Thanked: 0 Times	On my new Indica Turbo I wanted to fit tubeless tyres indica comes with stock 165/65/14 tyres I am looking for 175/65/14 tubeless tyres . Dealer is telling me that tubeless are effective only with Alloy wheels How to go about this ?
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 18:02	#20
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,256 Thanked: 37 Times View My Garage	Tubeless tyres have its own plus and minus points. Plus point is with alloys they are safe one even without alloys if RIM is stock one which had come with tubeless tyre its safe bet. Tube less tyre give better comfort as well and I feel Michellin/bridgestone/yoko are good brands as far as tubeless tyre in India. In Indian condition for cars tubeless tyres may be not as good as tubed tyres because of bad roads/ local garage guy has less knowledge on it. Main drawback of tubeless is its still new in India, only in good cities or if we tyre kit we can repair puncture in tubeless tyre otherwise it would be difficult unless we find good garaga wala who will repair puncture. Tubeless tyres once ended up with external damage like side cut/buldge we can't use them at all, that it they are waste. I have similar situation in my Innova and not using that tyre. Regards, Ravi.
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 18:57	#24
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,256 Thanked: 37 Times View My Garage	You are right rjstyles what I heard is one can repair few damages caused to tubed tyres and taxy segment will use it. Taxy guy told me he would buy my tyres including damaged tyre (it has small side buldge) when I change my tyre. I have no clue about pricing since when I decide to sell it it might have completed 25,000km. Regards, Ravi.
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 20:08	#25
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	The advantages of tubeless tyres have already been spelt out. I feel that it is wise to go tubeless if there is a lot of highway driving involved. Tubetype tyres should be used if the car is confined mainly to the city, if the roads are very bad and also if the car is mainly chauffeur-driven. Most of these drivers will not take the care needed to maintain tubeless tyres. In general alloy wheels are preferrable for tubeless tyres, but steel rims are also fine. The only catch with steel rims is that the smaller ones (12" and 13") are prone to bending if driven roughly over bad roads. I had tubeless tyres on 6-year old stock rims for about 10000 kms and they held air perfectly. But the rims got bent at the fringes (not enough to let out air) when I hit a couple of potholes and so I switched to alloys. Since then everything has been smooth for the next 11000 kms or so. Regarding maintenance of tubeless tyres, some care is needed. Firstly, one needs to frequently inspect these tyres to see if there are any nails stuck in or if there is any other damage. If any nails are found, then one should check the tyre pressures to see if there is a significant loss and then if necessary fill up and drive straight to a well-equipped tyre shop to get the puncture fixed. I have caught nails on three occasions in the first 21000 kms with tubeless tyres and on two of these there were punctures. Secondly, it is strongly recommended to have a portable air compressor. If there is any loss of pressure (which would become clear either on inspection or by the handling of the car or upon checking with a gauge) then there is no need to change the wheel; one only needs to fill up and drive straight to a tyre shop. This is one of the great advantages of tubeless tyres, if one is willing to invest about Rs. 800 in the air compressor. Third point regarding tubeless tyre maintenance-- have your own accurate pressure gauge (Rs 500 upwards) and check the tyre pressures once in two weels or prior to every long trip. Frequent checking of tyre pressures will alert us to slow leakage and then the problem can be promptly attended to. I caught a slow puncture this way and with great difficulty, the puncture was finally traced to the failure of a previously fixed puncture. The main point with respect to tubeless tyres is that they they can be much more rewarding in terms of safety and handling provided one takes the minimum amount of care needed. Ideally one must never allow a tubeless tyre to go flat and catch slow leakages as early as possible by being alert; if this is done, fixing these leakages/punctures can be planned and there is no need to even change a wheel. Someone reported a monthly drop of 2-3 psi. This can happen due to many reasons. The obvious one is that there could be slow air leakage. One should check for valve leakage with soap solution. Leakage from the bead area is very unlikely unless the rims are badly bent. Equally likely is that temperatures variations could cause some change in the readings e.g. if the tyre pressures are not measured in cold condition. Also the same accurate gauge must be used for comparison purposes. I found that when I set the pressures under reasonably warm weather and then when I checked the pressures in very cold weather two weeks later (with monsoon just setting in) there was a drop of 1-1.5 psi in all the tyres. But if there is not much variation in the ambient temperature, the pressures dropped by atmost 0.5 psi in two weeks (cold tyres). Last edited by rks : 9th August 2007 at 20:14.
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 20:31	#26
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	I, for one, was a non-beleiver in Tubeless. But all that changed when I find nails in my tubeless tyre but without having the tyre deflated a bit. This was observed after having done a long distance trip thru some real bad roads. What a Tubeless tyre needs is a strong rim lip and hence alloys are highly recommended. However I cannot fathom how can someone drive on a tubed tyre that has a sidewall cut? Goes a long way in pointing out the expertise of our experts.
	() Thanks

9th August 2007, 21:58	#30
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,005 Thanked: 26,447 Times	Is the design of the wheel for a tubeless tire different? I have no idea, having last seen tubes as a small child... but that seal between the tire and the rubber is such a vital part of the whole thing that it wouldn't surprise me if it were specially designed lip --- perhaps not the same on a tube wheel? There is no requirement for alloy: in my home country all car tires are tubeless, whereas, as here, alloys are optional luxury items or come with the more expensive cars. Vast numbers of cars combine steel wheels with tubeless tires.
	() Thanks