[PC77]

Below are two videos on the classic Amby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-hIT0labY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX1-KphH8vM

[Bulldogji]

Originally Posted by Philedonos

Hmmm, I just got a picture from a higly original Mark II interior which has black switches with ivory letters on them and a black gearlever knob. Bulldog's car was 1966, mine is 1965, so it sounds strange that Hindustan Motors would have used the old switches in 1966 but not 1964/5. Unless my liftboy used to work for Hindustan, it takes him two years flat every time I ask him to fetch something for me :-)

Daniel, hindustan motors may have followed the saying NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE. I took delivery of a mark 4, drove the car home, and asked the driver to park it. He did so and came back to report that the car had no hand brake. I went to see and also was puzzled, searched all over thinking that they had changed its position, to no avail. Next morning when I went back to the dealer, they had a look and said OH< THEY MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN TO FIT THE LEVER. Sure enough, the cable was in place, not the activating lever.Our first mark 2 positively had ivory coloured switches and gear lever knob. MRC 8555 and, MRD 4578 were the subsequent mark 2's with us, with black switches and indiain guages, with a small round guage in the centre of the dash with three lights . Red for ignition, Yellow for oil pressure and Blue for high beam. On the right of this was a simple speedometer in kilometers and to the left was a small fuel guage and ammeter. Two more mark 2's, MRJ 9636 and MMB 1684 came with the same guages in a faux wood finish dash and the centre round guage housing the lights gave way to a strip of rectangular lights. The central combination switch for ignition and lights gave way to a new switch in 9636, which was bought by us in 1974. MMB 1684, though a mark 2, bought in early 1975, came with tail light lenses of the mark 3, though the front grill was the traditional mark 2 with the integrated rectangular parking lights incorporated in the grill itself.

[harit]

Originally Posted by Philedonos

.....got the horn ring to work again and are now fiddling with the indicators on the steering wheel. ....the fuel pump is presently causing some trouble,

You will fiddle with the indicator switch for the rest of the cars road life.
Fuel Pump, Oh God, you want to have an original car, so no electric fuel pump. The quality of todays fuel pump kits is horrible, to put it mildly, not even NOS is available.

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

Hi Daniel, you had earlier mentioned that the car was overheating. That would at times cause a fuel vapour lock. Often this problem was blamed on a faulty fuel pump. In any case , if you can get a fresh kit, overhaul the pump. If you cant, fit an electric pump. The Mark 1 came with a SU pump fitted in the dickey.

Wrong, you see, the car is to be reverte to original. Joking as usual, but trying to keep originality is very difficult and not practical.

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

....Having said that, ambassadors being ambassadors, maybe they just had an old stock of switches which they used up on early cars??

When the mention was made about the 4 switches, I just could not remember the 4th starter switch. That was because for the Mark III I think they had 2 light switches, park lights, high beam with dipper on the floor.

A story which I heard about a visit of the Birla boss to his plant. He saw clocks being installed, asked if they were a necessity, when told no suggested that they be done away with. The earliest Amby's did have clocks, later they were done away with indeed.
Quite possible, Fiats had no clocks, or???

BTW, on an Amby one can revert to the original type of suspension bushes, only they will require replacement every 8 months.

Cheers Harit

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by harit

When the mention was made about the 4 switches, I just could not remember the 4th starter switch. That was because for the Mark III I think they had 2 light switches, park lights, high beam with dipper on the floor.

In 1970 HM introduced the key start system, a change from the earlier pull start. Along with this, the first-pull-parks and pull-again-head lamp combi switch came in instead of the combination switch at the centre in the earlier models. This lamp switch was placed where there was a panel light dimmer switch at the right side of this combination switch. A switch for the panel lights off/on was also introduced in 1970 and was located at the extreme right where there was the starter pull switch till then.
The dipper switch continued to be foot operated till some time in the life of the Mark 4 when a pull/push switch as dipper got located at the extreme right position.
In other simple words the change was thus; From C W P S to C W L P to C W L D until the advent of the Diesels.
Later gen Mark 4s had only two switches, perhaps with the introduction of the new dash board.

[anjan_c2007]

Could be Off Topic.
Some Landmaster to Ambassador Mark II dashboards from 1954-75. The "evolutionary" changes are evident.



Landmaster



Old Smiths meters



Oxford Series III with heater controls



Mark I



Mark II (1964 one of the earliest examples owned by my uncle- the clock has been swapped for another aftermarket gauge)



The clock is gone by 1965



The Smiths meters are gone- Yenkay and Autometer take over with a bang its late 1965





The newer configuration from sometime in 1968 with the speedo and two gauges that went on till 1970



This configuration came in 1970 and continued till the advent of the Mark 3 in June 1975

(picture sources teambhp and some original pictures from my album)
Bulldogji, one small piece of information here - the Mark 3 rear number plate light and the later Mark number plate light were one and the same. But the tail lights were unchanged with the amber and red individual units that went on till the last Mark II rolled out of Uttarpara. The new full taillight lenses came in June 1975 with the Mark 3.

[harit]

Also see an old picture, http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2741363 , post 2224.

Cheers Harit

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Attachment 1047630
The newer configuration from sometime in 1968 with the speedo and two gauges that went on till 1970
Attachment 1047631
This configuration came in 1970 and continued till the advent of the Mark 3 in June 1975

Anjanji, there is some correction. This 2 meter (Fuel & Amps) 4 light configuration was introduced in 1970 and in 1971 same configuration but mounted on mica and aluminium panel was introduced. The Mark3 had same meter configuration but was mounted in a recess. This continued even in the early Mark4s too.

[deutscheafrikar]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Could be Off Topic.
Some Landmaster to Ambassador Mark II dashboards from 1954-75. The "evolutionary" changes are evident.


Mark II (1964 one of the earliest examples owned by my uncle- the clock has been swapped for another aftermarket gauge)

How interesting to see them all on one page. Brings back old memories to some people. By the way that after market gauge in the center looks like a vacuum gauge to me. It had average, idle drive fair poor etc.. with the different colors. I think. Drive is the blue shade. Idle is to its left. Car had to idle well to be on that color band. And if you drove well you were on the blue band. Red band was poor I think. I still have a couple of these some where.

[Bulldogji]

Anjan, the last mark 2 bought by us did come with the rear lenses in one piece ,like the later, mark 3 . Our first mark 3 MMB 7411followed shortly after our last mark2 , MMB1684 . Maybe they just ran out of the old lenses? With HM anything was possible. Thanks for the pictures of all the dashes. They brought back happy memories. In those days , we were glad to get rid of those cars. Who would have thought people would actually begin collecting them!!

[Philedonos]

Originally Posted by harit

You will fiddle with the indicator switch for the rest of the cars road life.
Fuel Pump, Oh God, you want to have an original car, so no electric fuel pump. The quality of todays fuel pump kits is horrible, to put it mildly, not even NOS is available. [...]
Wrong, you see, the car is to be reverte to original. Joking as usual, but trying to keep originality is very difficult and not practical.
[...] BTW, on an Amby one can revert to the original type of suspension bushes, only they will require replacement every 8 months.

Harit, don’t be such a pessimist. Frist off all, if your read my post carefully, you will notice that I have confirmed my will to get the car back to aesthetic originality, step by step, but that I will keep some improvements to the mechanics, simply because in India it is difficult to find some original components and because they make sense if you use the car as a daily driver on these roads. The fuel pump is a good example for accepting a virtually invisible “evolution”, in case of the indicators however, they really make a big visual difference, so I will try my best to get them working, or do as most people here: not use them at all :-)

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Could be Off Topic.
Some Landmaster to Ambassador Mark II dashboards from 1954-75. The "evolutionary" changes are evident.

Anjan, I have to thank you for the lovely sequence of dashboard pictures. I had done a similar one on my personal files, copying all the pictures I found on the net and through friends.
I seem to have a car of a rather odd year: end 1965.
If you look at the pictures with care, you will notice that at some point the handles of the two glove boxes moved from centre top to centre middle. I think that this happened just before the ashtray appeared on top of the dashboard, but I could be mistaken. If you compare the picture of the red/back interior with (two pictures later) the grey interior, you’ll see the glove box handle has moved from centre to top, without the appearance of the ashtray. I guess this was in 1964.
In the subsequent picture of the light blue/dark blue interior, the handles are still on the upper side of the glovebox, but the ashtray appears and the clock is gone. This is I think early 1965.
What puzzles me is the next picture, though, which you state is late 1965: the two Smith metres are gone and are replaced by a total of 4 small and one large instrument. This configuration remains until 1968 it seems.
So the major changes happened in 1965. The question is: when did the clock disappear and the ashtray appear (I presume early 1965)? And when did the Smith metres disappear?
I think I can safely say that my December 1965 model never had a clock, but I am trying to understand if it had the two Smith metres (which I hope, as they are so much prettier) or the 4 + 1 Yenkay

Originally Posted by harit

Also see an old picture, http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2741363 , post 2224. Cheers Harit

Harit, thanks for the link to the old picture. It again shows a model with a clock and the glove box handles on the top side. There doesn’t seem to be an ashtray (difficult to see) so it should be a late 1964 model.

Ok, if the research goes on like this I have found a new job in India: I will write the first book on Landmasters/Ambassadors in India, I seem to have at least 5 co- authors already, haha. And I'll grow old by the time I have all the information.

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by Philedonos

...the two Smith metres are gone and are replaced by a total of 4 small and one large instrument. This configuration remains until 1968 it seems.
So the major changes happened in 1965. The question is: when did the clock disappear and the ashtray appear (I presume early 1965)? And when did the Smith metres disappear?

Another point to be noted is that some time in 1966 the Smiths meters gave way to Autometer make Smiths lookalikes graduated in metric system ie., KMs.
This were OEs then and in 1968 Autometer also bought in the Yenkay lookalike type of meters. And the funny part is that the needles of the three Yenkay make meters (of Fuek gauge, Anneter and Oil Pressure gauge) were different to one another.

[Bulldogji]

Daniel, the handles on the glove box lids never came in the centre. This is a modification done by that car owner. I may add that it is a bit thoughtless, since it would take greater effort to open the lid from the centre than from the top. Simple physics, since the hinges are at the bottom.

[Philedonos]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

Daniel, the handles on the glove box lids never came in the centre. This is a modification done by that car owner. I may add that it is a bit thoughtless, since it would take greater effort to open the lid from the centre than from the top. Simple physics, since the hinges are at the bottom.

Hello Bulldog, you are right, I looked at the pictures, and although he is not the only one, it seems to be a later modification indeed!
I also noticed another error of mine, and I quote myself in my last post "In the subsequent picture of the light blue/dark blue interior, the handles are still on the upper side of the glovebox, but the ashtray appears and the clock is gone. This is I think early 1965."
Now, from the two pictures you see below, taken from this very Forum, I notice that cars existed with ashtray AND clock. I guess that must have been early 1965 then, while the clock disappered (as in the case of the above mentioned light blue/dark blue interior) subsequently in the same year.
Finally even the two Smith meters disappered to give place to Autometers according to Rajeev but then these were in turn replaced by the 4 + 1 Yenkays. and all this before the end of 1966? Good Lord, I am getting lost :-)

[thebulletboy]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Another point to be noted is that some time in 1966 the Smiths meters gave way to Autometer make Smiths lookalikes graduated in metric system ie., KMs.

Originally Posted by Philedonos

Finally even the two Smith meters disappered to give place to Autometers according to Rajeev but then these were in turn replaced by the 4 + 1 Yenkays. and all this before the end of 1966? Good Lord, I am getting lost :-)

I've always wondered which year the shift to KMPH was made.
Perhaps the move to KMPH might have come in earlier during the SMITHS era.
Attached is a pic of a Smiths KMPH speedo. I'm assuming that these speedos were used after the Smiths MPH meters and before the Autometer KMPH meters.

Though I'm unsure of the model year of the car this was pulled out of.
Hopefully the experts can confirm and shed more light on this.

[Philedonos]

Originally Posted by thebulletboy

I've always wondered which year the shift to KMPH was made.
Perhaps the move to KMPH might have come in earlier during the SMITHS era.
Attached is a pic of a Smiths KMPH speedo. I'm assuming that these speedos were used after the Smiths MPH meters and before the Autometer KMPH meters.

Though I'm unsure of the model year of the car this was pulled out of.
Hopefully the experts can confirm and shed more light on this.

Attachment 1047817

And I know that speedometer:-)
If this all happened in sequence, the 1965 must have been an eventful model year at Hindustan!