[drsingh]

Wagon R CNG. Period.On a 7 year loan.4 lakhs loan at 8.65% 6k EMI.

[biggrin]

drsingh One thing he didn't mention clearly is that he won't go for a new car (due to parking issue mentioned earlier) as the second car would not be parked in a gated area and the car would be prone to scratches, vandalism etc.. Also the place where his father would drive will be a high traffic area and that coupled with his father's lack of experience would mean a lot of scrapes and scratches to a brand new car, I think.

[Ry_der]

Any of the used roadworthy diesel car will cost above 3 lacs. You can ask him to get a WagonR or Santro with CNG kit for his father. Retrofit another CNG in his swift. Used WagonR or Santro cng can be easily sourced from delhi UNDER 2.5 Lakh and running cost will be equal to FZ16.Alto CNG, IMO , will perform pathetically with AC on. Win-win for all.

[SmartCat]

Some advice for your close friend -

1) Sell the bike and go for a second car, because it is safer. How much will you get when you sell the bike? Rs. 1 Lakh minimum?
2) Not too impressed by your LPG conversion idea for Swift and the new car. Why spend Rs. 50,000 x 2 = Rs. 1 Lakh upfront? Put this money in a Fixed Deposit and earn 8% instead. Pay for petrol fuel costs from this "fund" for the next year or two.
3) With the cash from R15 sale proceeds, buy either a pre-owned Tata Nano (for Rs. 1 Lakh) or pre-owned Alto (Rs. 1 to 1.5 Lakhs). Preferably an Alto from Maruti True Value (because you get warranty, free service etc)

Some unsolicited advice for your close friend -

1) Do not fixate on fuel costs too much. After all, it is likely to be a small percentage of your overall family expenses.
2) Make a list of all your expenses in an Excel sheet, even if it is a small Rs. 100 outflow. After that, you categorize your expenses (like groceries, utilities etc) and see where you can cut costs.
3) Future cash flows might be a lot better than what it is now.

[agambhandari]

I would suggest,keep the current car. You have maintained it and thus it will be the most reliable. No used car can possibly match up to that.

Coming to buying a used car. I would suggest taking a look at the Nano. Not only would it be cheap to buy, it will also give really good fuel economy so helps in that. Also your dad would like its spacious interiors and higher seating than a Alto/K10.

If you are as cost conscious as your post is making you to be, I would suggest not to look at the Marutis and Hyundais as they command very high resale value and the new ones have so much discount already that it doesn't make much sense to buy a 2-3 year old one. You will not feel like forking out over 2.5 lacs for a couple years old Alto.

Rather look at the cars that are a depriciation disaster. Like the Chevy Beat or the spark. Basically something that doesn't give a good resale value. Infact if you are so interested in getting a CNG, do look at the factory fit options of these cars. Also a 3-4 year old CNG car would be more reliable and easier to maintain than an equally old diesel one.

Hope this helps. Do update us with what you decide to do.

[Mr.Boss]

3. To keep the R15 for my commute, keep the Swift as well and get a used Alto, and CNG it. Problem is with parking it but we will somehow manage it. Family is almost set for option 3.

IMO option 3 seems more reasonable.
- If R15 is sold, he will be depending on car even for local errands, which isn't practical
- Both these vehicles (Swift & R15) are relatively newer, well maintained (or at least the history is known) and with low mileage. he can't expect the same from a used car that you are about to buy

As suggested by others, get a used Alto or Nano and enjoy the drive. CNG conversion is upto him, but for minimal running I suggest not to invest on the alternate fuel. Both these cars deliver a good FE.

[ObsessedByFIAT]

Here are my thoughts:

1. Don't sell the bike just as yet. A bike comes in handy for shorter runs and is way more convenient in bumper to bumper traffic.

2. Look at a used Nano (if you find a CNG version, nothing like it) and hand it over to your father.

3. Keep the other car in stock condition. A well maintained, reliable car is always good to have in those emergency situations and otherwise.

[biggrin]

Thank you guys for helping him out. One thing I am not very clear about is investing the sale proceeds of the bike in FD. If he sells off the bike, his cars (without CNG kits) will cover 32k kms combined in one year, costing him 1.35 Lac in fuel. I don't think the FD would be able to sustain the cost for even 1 year. If he spends the amount of CNG kits, he will need to cover the investment in 2-2.5 years but after that if he holds on to them for 4-5 years, it will give him very good savings in fuel costs (to the tune of 45-50k per annum, both cars combined). Please help me if I'm going wrong somewhere.

Here is his response which I received on mail this morning.

Thank you members for the responses. They are surely going to help me in taking a decision.

Few points I would like to clear. Sorry for a very long post I don't have the privilege to reply instantly.

1. We are not planning for a new car at this point of time. Our Swift is on loan (closing in 6 months) and it would be very hard to convince Dad for another car on loan. If we could wait for another 5-6 months then I would have thought about this.
2. My family is against the Tata Nano for some reason. They think it doesn't age very well as most cars we have seen on road are rusted, battered and few examples from the used car market with over 40k kms are almost falling apart. Dad prefers to be on the safer side and will opt for a vehicle which is easier to sell after some years.

3. I don't know why I am coming out as cost-conscious from my post. CNG gives a saving of roughly 40% in fuel expenses and with our kind of running, we can cover the cost of kit in 2 years. I don't intend to put CNG if the running is under 1000 km a month. Moreover, we were able to convince Dad to sell off his bike with the excuse that running cost on CNG will be similar to what he spends on FZ for fuel. Would be hard to convince him to use the car on Petrol (rough calculations imply around 25k per year addition fuel cost). For the Swift, I intend to go for CNG only if we sell off the R15 as the combined run of 1500 km a month would cost a lot on Petrol (close to 7.5k) and CNG would turn out to be cheaper in comparison. If the bike stays, Swift will continue to run on Petrol only.

4. I am not even able to get 1 Lac for my bike. I had purchased it for 1.35 Lac 7 months back. Most of the offers I received were utterly low, to the range of 75-85k. Considering this, my family is almost ready to get a second car (used) and keep the R15 and Swift as it is. Dad is against the idea of replacing something (and bearing a loss) which is perfectly fine (R15 or the Swift) and I agree he is right and being very practical.

He has raised some very valid points.
1. What if the CNG kit we fit on Swift doesn't function properly and we have to face problems (add to this, we would be left with no backup vehicle at home)?

2. For the second option, he says that Diesel cars require most expenses after 60k kms and our decision to sell off a perfect condition Swift for a used Diesel car (with uncertain history) would be considered stupidity if the govt. bans 10 yr old vehicles. He is not ready to part ways with Swift and downgrade to Petrol/CNG cars also, due to the same reason of uncertain history of used cars.

He agrees to the third option of getting a second car (used) and keeping the Swift and R15 as it is (no CNG). He is correct in his thinking, just that I was being a bit nitpicky and was unwilling to use two vehicles alternately (R15 and Swift) when we can sell one and use the other full-time.

Now I have some questions regarding the used car purchase.

1. Petrol + CNG or Diesel. Which is the safer choice? For petrol cars we are looking at Alto F8D, old Alto K10, Alto 800, Santro and 1st gen i10. Zen Estilo and A Star are also under consideration but unable to find a less used piece. Dad doesn't personally like the Eon and WagonR. Diesel vehicles we can find are Beat and Figo Diesel. I know both (esp. Figo) are capable cars but maintenance costs are considered high for these cars. Fordhas recently been in news for reducing its maintenance costs but I guess it is valid for newer gen cars only, right?

2. CNG kit. Next question I have is regarding the kit to be fitted. Does sequential kit require holes in the engine head (irreversible)? A local installer (I will be going to some other known person for actual install) says that closed loop are good enough for small cars like Alto, Santro, etc. but they need good tuning to be well-calibrated else there are idling and fuel supply problems. He says sequential kit doesn't require such regular tuning and are comparatively more easy to live with. Is he correct?

3. Registration State. The last query is regarding out of state cars. I have proofs for HR registration (and transfer) only but I have come across some good DL registered cars. Will transferring them be a problem? Can it be done through an agent? Or is it better to stick to HR registered cars only.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by biggrin

Here is his response which I received on mail this morning.

From the mail, I now realize that the main objective is low running costs. You don't actually mind spending cash up front. And no way should you give away your bike at those prices. Keeping these in mind, this is what I would do.

1) Use (bike + Swift) to cut running costs. Maybe using the Swift for 3 days a week and the bike for 2 days per week would be equivalent to 40% savings that a gas conversion would give you.

2) Buy a pre-owned CNG (Wagon R/Santro/Alto) car OR Tata Vista Quadrajet diesel. We have a Vista (Petrol) in our family and I can say that it is an extremely under-rated product. Pre-owned Vista diesel prices seem to be quite attractive in North India.

3) Use the (swift + bike) for weekday commute only. For weekends and highway drives, use Vista diesel/CNG car - to further reduce your overall monthly costs.

[pach]

I have a 6.5 year old Cruze. It still rides as good as new and puts a big smile on my face every time I take it on a highway. Recent news about Chevy shutting down Halol plant has really disturbed me.

Can I keep the cruze and risk shutting down of Chevy in India. Will the spare parts be easily available say after 3 years. with closure of many service centers now, I am more skeptical going on the long drives.

If I sell the cruze, I will not want to spend lot of money on new car. Which car can I buy under 11 lacs onroad. I do not mind coming down a segment or two. Recently with increase in my age and double increase in highway traffic my driving has become very sedate. (cruising at 100 kmph)

My priorities are:
1. Safety
2. Well planted on highways
3. Initial cost (10 - 11 lacs max on road)
4. Resale Value (May sell the car after 3 years )
4. 2 adults + 2 kids ( spacious hatchback is fine)
5. Should be popular car (Best selling) that would ensure parts availability for longer time and resale value
6. Preferably from Maruti and Hyundai.

I would be very happy if you advise me to keep the cruze, and say that spares and service available for 4 -5 more years.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by pach

I would be very happy if you advise me to keep the cruze, and say that spares and service available for 4 -5 more years.

Here is the good news. Spare parts will be available for the Cruze due to the number of cars on the road. Also Cos are mandated to support a car till 7 years after its production is stopped and the Cruze is being sold till date.


Having said that, if you desire complete peace of mind, I'd recommend a new Ciaz or the new City for your requirements.

[biggrin]

Originally Posted by biggrin

Thank you guys for helping...

A small update to the situation -

He has now filtered down to two cars which are totally under his budget and cars of same vintage cost around the same.

1. Alto K10 (Old shape, less than 4 yr old, under 40k kms run examples)
2. Alto 800 (New shape, less than 4 year old, under 40k kms run examples)

He along with his dad checked out a few used cars over the past weekends. Only petrol cars were checked, as it is easier to find an actually low run car than in case of CNG. I have advised them to use the Petrol car for around 6 months, and only if it seems that fuel expenses are bothering, they can add sequential CNG from a Maruti dealer later.

I have also suggested him old Alto K10 due to its superior engine. They are okay with the 800cc motor (after testing 3-4 cars with 30-40k kms) but my guess is that K10 will be better (once his Dad perfects his driving skills, of course his avg speed and performance expectations will increase) for long term.

Which one would be a better choice, considering that it is a secondary car, used solo most of the time and will be fitted with a CNG kit - An old model with better engine, or a newer model with slightly dull engine?

Only concern with K10 is that it is discontinued but I guess spares would not be a problem (mechanical parts) as the same engine is very popular in WagonR.

Also they are still searching for 'THE' car from an individual seller as dealer practices in NCR region are really very shady.

[A M]

CNG conversion will lead to a ~10% power loss. So, I would pick the K10 here.

[golfdude]

Folks,

Based on the expert opinions here, I have decided to go for the new Ciaz AT to replace my Honda Accord 2001 AT.

Just before I went to the Ciaz showroom, my Honda Accord had an issue with the head and radiotor. My mechanic gave me the option of buying it for Rs. 15,000 as is. Few days went by in which time he changed the head and the radiator and also put in few days of labour. The car is again in running condition and so I showed it to Ciaz folks for exchange evaluation.

Now Ciaz is offering me Rs. 45,000 for the car plus Rs. 40,000 as exchange bonus. The total cost of putting the new head and radiator is also around Rs.45,000.

So I will get a net of Rs. 40,000 from Ciaz if the give the Honda Accord to them for exchange.

I love driving the Honda Accord AT and have used it very sparingly for short local drives within Pune.

I have a 2010 Xylo W8 which I have grown tired of and really don't enjoy driving it anymore.

I am thinking that I will pay Rs. 45,000 to my mechanic for the recent Honda Accord repairs and continue using it sparingly. Even if it lasts me for 2 years without any major repairs, it is good.

As it is, I was planning to sell off the Xylo in the near future. So I can sell the Xylo now and keep the Accord AT along with the new Ciaz AT.

Ciaz will be for long drives and Accord for the very small local ones. If at any point Accord dies, I will not put any more money into it but just discard it at that point.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by golfdude

As it is, I was planning to sell off the Xylo in the near future. So I can sell the Xylo now and keep the Accord AT along with the new Ciaz AT.

Ciaz will be for long drives and Accord for the very small local ones. If at any point Accord dies, I will not put any more money into it but just discard it at that point.

Sounds like a good plan to me. You don't like the Xylo and its anyway newer so should get you a slightly higher resale value.

The next time the accord causes any issues though, sell it for what it fetches, or scrap it.