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Old 2nd April 2010, 11:08   #61
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interesting thread GTO, i have the following observations:

1. what you say works in theory but the ground realities are a bit different- used car market is one of the most notorious place for rip offs, and this includes the manufacturer backed used car busienss. so you have to either be really lucky, or get a car from a known source.

2. Finance- an overwhelming percentage of cars in India are bought on finance and used car finance is hard to come by, is prohibitively expensive and most banks only finance upto a max of 75% of the car value. At times, there is a negligible difference in the EMI of a used car as opposed to a similar new car, esp in the lower end of the market (sub 10 Lakhs), where most of the action is anyways.

Just my two cents.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 11:32   #62
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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Ques-. Given the used car market in India, which is highly unorganized, where can i find a good used car dealer? All you guys are talking about 3.5 lacs skoda, 10 lacs Pejero, 4 lacs lancer cedia, 12 lacs BMW...where are you finding them from?
There's no such thing as a "good" used car dealer. You can get a great car from a rogue dealer, or a lemon from a good dealer. The credit for a good or bad car goes to the previous owner of that car, and how he's driven / maintained it. I insist on giving more importance to the car per se, rather than reputation of the dealer you are buying it from.

Best places to search: Online classifieds (but those that are from direct owners), newspaper ads, authorised showrooms (all have used car divisions today) and local hard-working used car brokers. Within the dealer segment, I prefer brokers who charge a commission, and allow seller + buyer to interact directly.

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Originally Posted by JLN View Post
2007 NHC Gxi 20000 kms - mint condition - 5.85 lakhs (post bargaining a bit).
This car would make for a great urban commuter.

Quote:
Response to GTO: The Altis G variant costs 13.9 lakhs on-road (fabric seats). The price is probably higher by about 20K from today - higher road tax and VAT in Bangalore from April 1. The guy must have spent 40-50K additional for the stanley seats, reverse sensor and sunfilm. So 10 lakhs for the car seems to be a good deal - am tempted. colour is silver grey - looks real good.
So effectively, you are getting a 1 year old car for 4 lakh rupees less? I say go ahead, bargain how much ever you can and place that deposit. When you buy a better car to start with, you will retain it for longer (and thus save $$$ in the longer run).

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Originally Posted by sachinj12 View Post
GTO, you really shouldn't have uttered that!! I mean really, REALLY!!!

You really weakened my battle.

5 yrs down the line, I see myself selling my 2 month old Swift Dzire VDI and driving home with that mammoth of a SUV. Once the Fortuner was launched, I made up my mind then and there to get her home.
The Fortuner will make for one heck of a used buy!

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Originally Posted by WhiteKnight View Post
Please don't go overboard. Buy a Used-car which is only a segment (or two) above the one you could buy brand new now.
Premium cars depreciate faster, but their Spares cost the same or MORE as time passes. Be aware of the spare-part cost as well as possible sourcing options.[/quote]

Wise words of advice, WhiteKnight. Thanks

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Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
Luxury cars are tough to find outside Mumbai, Delhi (don't know about Chennai/Bangalore) and people might want to wait for sometime to find a good example. Never be lured by good prices as there is mostly a catch.
I don't know about the other cities, but in Bombay, I had a wide choice of Civics & Accords over my search. In fact, one couldn't go wrong with any of the cars that I test-drove. You can be spoilt for choice in a market like Bombay or Delhi. I guess Bangalore would also offer an equally wide choice?

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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
well used car dealers are always not the best choice for pre used cars.
Except when we are talking about certified pre-owned cars from authorised showrooms. These are generally trade-ins which are marginally refurbished and sold on for a profit. Both my Hondas were bought via the same route.

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Originally Posted by gomzi View Post
Well this is one of the reasons prices in the used car market are so mouth watering! As GTO said, you'll have to do a lot of legwork No Pain, No Gain
Truly! I mean, if you want to save 40 - 50% on the car, get ready for some real work. If you don't want to put in the effort, buy new. No pain, no gain. There clearly is a lot of foot work involved here.....though as illustrated through various examples, I find it to be well-worth it! In fact, I enjoy the entire process of test-driving & negotiating.

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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
Keep cash ready, and always know the lowest price you would trade your current drive for, and the highest price you would pay for your next ride.
A simple tip, yet ones that easily overlooked. Thanks for sharing.

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Finally, I have the CR-V on my mind. The first generation (in India). Haven't started researching on it yet nor saving up for it becuase I love my SAFARI to bits.
Seen some 1st gen CRVs for 6 lakhs in Bombay.

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Originally Posted by channelv View Post
My workshop owner sold off his Lancer and got himself a used Octi, he was all praise for the vehicle for the first two months. But now he says he regrets his decision to exchange due to his highly inflated maintenance cost compared with Lancer (even after owning a workshop).
Not surprising, as he went from Jap to European. Read the opening posts of this article : I've clearly specified that Japs & Koreans make for the best used buys, and Europeans should be mostly avoided.

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
what you say works in theory but the ground realities are a bit different- used car market is one of the most notorious place for rip offs, and this includes the manufacturer backed used car busienss. so you have to either be really lucky, or get a car from a known source.
Hey, follow both our articles to the T (including insurance checks etc.) and you'll be safe. Of course, if you are an extremely risk-averse personality, this is not the thread for you.

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Finance- an overwhelming percentage of cars in India are bought on finance and used car finance is hard to come by, is prohibitively expensive and most banks only finance upto a max of 75% of the car value. At times, there is a negligible difference in the EMI of a used car as opposed to a similar new car, esp in the lower end of the market (sub 10 Lakhs), where most of the action is anyways.
Couldn't agree more. That's precisely why Mod Ajmat bought a new OHC Vtec over a used one, in 2002. If one is buying a 2 year old Innova on loan, I'm pretty sure that a new example (with lower interest rates) will work out to about the same figure.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 11:32   #63
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I was just thinking about this article when I was in the loo, and I just realized that I have a very practical problem with lateral upgrades - parking space! The problem is that selling an existing car and then buying an used car, both take lots of time. I can't sell my old car first, I need to have a car with me.

So first, I need to buy an used car, and then start advertising on websites to sell my old car. And till that time, my old car has to be parked outside - which will expose to to possible theft, vandalism, rats (big problem in our area), dust and what not.

One doesn't face this problem buying a new car, because new cars have a definite delivery date (well, almost). I can first try to sell my old car, and when the deal is struck, I can go and book a new car - so that I remain "car-less" only for a couple of days max.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 12:01   #64
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You know how the market is. They don't care about a "sportier" variant. Tell them the Fiesta 1.6S has a stiffer suspension and the price will drop even lower (stiffer ride).
.
That's true for the general market, but an enthusiast who know what a stiffer suspension can do for handling may be willing to pay a good price, or maybe even a premium compared to the regular models. Anyway, that's what I am hoping as I doubt if Ford will release another S model in the future.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 12:52   #65
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Default My bit of experience...

We sold of our 2003 Feb Indica DLS for 1,30,000/- in 2009 July. At the time of sale, it required new set of tires (10,000/-), a new battery (4,000/-), Insurance (8,000/-), body work - denting and painting ( road side guy would charge atleast 10,000/-), Suspension work(10,000/-), Audio HU needed repairs (2,000/-) and the car did around a lakh KM. Around 40 to 45k worth spending was required!!

Since we wanted a sedan paid an extra 3 lakhs and bought a 2006 July Accent CRDi with 56,000km on the odo in 2009 Sep. We intend to keep this one till 2012 and may be sell it for 2 lakhs something. Add around 4 lakhs and choose from the vehicles mentioned below, which I can buy used for between 6 lakhs to 7 lakhs in 2012.

My choice would be based on:

- more well built.
- Substantially more modern
- A later model year (accent '06)
- Run far less kms (mine would have done 120,000 kms. Avg. used 3 year old diesel car would be around 60,000 kms)
- A size bigger. With more comfortable interiors too.
- Has excellent stability at high speed.
- Has rear disc brakes, ABS and airbags.
- Well-kitted out (height adjust drivers seat, steering tilt, climate control, electric retractable mirrors etc.)


Vehicles:

Chevrolet Cruze
Chevrolet Optra Magnum

Hyundai Verna
Hyundai Elantra (If launched shortly)
Hyundai Sonata Emberra / transform

Mahindra Xylo
Mahindra Scorpio

SX4 Diesel (If launched shortly)

Toyota Innova.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 14:51   #66
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I bumped into someone who used to work for TS Mahalingam & Sons (a reputed used car dealer in Chennai) with a presence in Bangalore too - their operations is mahindra first choice style (non brokerage model). He offered some great insights in how dealers look at used cars - Model year of the car is the basis on which they evaluate the cars - so if someone goes to him and wants to sell say GTO's car equivalent - 2007 Civic V MT, 7700 kms, the guy will get fried by the used car dealers - they would offer a similar price (maybe 5-10K more) as they would for a car that has run 30000 kms. His logic - "anyone selling such a low milage used car typically has some desperate need to sell the car - transferring abroad, financial difficulties (needs urgent cash), astrologer/guru wants him to change the car". So they go to a few used car guys, don't have time to find a direct buyer through newspaper ads/internet and just take the best offer they get in a few days time. Plus it is very easy for the used car
dealer to sell such cars and they typically make a huge margin - he mentioned in some cases upwards of 1.5 lakhs. Interesting they love dealing with smaller cars as it is really easy to sell these cars (because of the volume of buyers). Larger/premium cars, even if they are great ones, takes them a few weeks to sell, since the buyers are few and folks with that kind of money prefer buying a newer car (even if it is a segment lower).

Another attestation to this thread: Look for almost new cars with very low milage. If the guy wants to sell, he can't get a premium at the used car dealerships. So they will be more open to selling to end users for just a slight premium.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 16:08   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
I was just thinking about this article when I was in the loo, and I just realized that I have a very practical problem with lateral upgrades - parking space! The problem is that selling an existing car and then buying an used car, both take lots of time. I can't sell my old car first, I need to have a car with me.

So first, I need to buy an used car, and then start advertising on websites to sell my old car. And till that time, my old car has to be parked outside - which will expose to to possible theft, vandalism, rats (big problem in our area), dust and what not.

One doesn't face this problem buying a new car, because new cars have a definite delivery date (well, almost). I can first try to sell my old car, and when the deal is struck, I can go and book a new car - so that I remain "car-less" only for a couple of days max.
Even this unique problem has a solution.

First get the cash ready, buy your upgrade car, and park it at home. Your old car can be parked at a used car dealer under the 'Park and Sell' arrangement. They'll wipe it clean for you and look after it till it gets sold. Also, its easier to direct prospective buyers to the Dealer and he will take care of the PR tasks leaving you free. It might cost around a grand, but it sure is worth it
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Old 2nd April 2010, 16:19   #68
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Default Clever dealer trick

You want to buy a SCORPIO. Your budget is 3,00,000 and you are looking for a 2005 upwards model.

You walk into a used car dealership.

The guy now wants to sell you a SCORPIO of his friend, another used car dealer, which they maybe bought at 2,50,000 for 5,00,000. He does not give you a clue.

He says that you can get good SCORPIOs for around 4,00,000, he says he'll show you some examples and you reluctantly agree

Round 1 to the Dealer, he bumped your price up by 50,000.

Now he's going to get the car, let you ride around, do whatever you want with it, check it thoroughly and most importantly, start dreaming about your new ride and tell all friends and relatives about it.

He's going to fix a date for you to come into the showroom, when he will have the 'Seller' on the phone, and then come to a deal.

You arrive at the showroom set for 4,00,000. He'll call up th seller and say that he has a buyer for 4,00,000. The seller will refuse to sell for anything less than 5,00,000.

Your heart sinks. The Dealer is now in his element. There are a series of calls between you and the seller, all mediated by the Dealer, 4,25,000 then 4,80,000 and finally the killer phrase/sucker punch/trump card "OK, no loss for you no loss for him, lets settle it in the middle, final rate 4,50,000"

You reluctantly agree, and end up paying a premium for the vehicle.

The trick is, quote a low price to entice buyers into coming to the table. Once they are at the table, quote a ridiculously high price so that they settle for something in between the previous agreed price and the ridiculous high price.

Moral of the Story:
Please speak to the seller and fix the price that he is quoting before touching the vehicle. Then follow the T-Bhp checklist and start knocking that price down.

Under no circumstances agree to pay more than what you said your budget was when you first walked into the showroom.

One last golden rule:
Every rule has an exception. There might be some jewel of a car, that is worth selling the shirt on your back for, grab it without any consideration to what is written above.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 17:20   #69
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Excellent thread GTO !
Even I am in the process of selling my 3 years old Wagon R Duo & upgrade to a used sedan with good performance & fuel efficiency (my daily commute goes for 70 kms)
I am expecting to sell the old car at 2.3 lacs (new tyres, shock abs, clutch etc) & invest further 2 lacs to get new (used) set of wheels , only issue is that i have to first sell my car to get 2.3 lacs.
Any suggestions for suitable upgrade ( I am > 6ft tall, therefore comfortable driving position is also required),
Fuel : Diesel
City : NCR.
Thanks once again .
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Old 2nd April 2010, 17:54   #70
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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
Excellent thread GTO !
Even I am in the process of selling my 3 years old Wagon R Duo & upgrade to a used sedan with good performance & fuel efficiency (my daily commute goes for 70 kms)
I am expecting to sell the old car at 2.3 lacs (new tyres, shock abs, clutch etc) & invest further 2 lacs to get new (used) set of wheels , only issue is that i have to first sell my car to get 2.3 lacs.
Any suggestions for suitable upgrade ( I am > 6ft tall, therefore comfortable driving position is also required),
Fuel : Diesel
City : NCR.
Thanks once again .
diesel sedan for 4-4.5 lacs.
You could get a used dzire Ldi but i guess you would have to increase your budget by 30-40k atleast.
But my advice would be-DONT GO for a used diesel sedan.Most will be odo-tampered or having some mechanical problem.
Go for a used ppetrol sedan with lesser kms - You could get a decent NHC-2005/6 which is spacious,practical and fuel efficient as well.
You could also look out for dzire lxi/vxi
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Old 2nd April 2010, 20:16   #71
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This is an excellent thread GTO. I was always apprehensive of buying a used vehicle for the obvious reasons (rogue dealers, being stuck with a lemon, etc etc) but since I restored 2 jeeps and bought a 4 year old gypsy, I started believing that if it has door, tyres and an engine, well then anything and everything that goes wrong can be set right.

One should and just needs to have the correct mindset. Comparing an old vehicle to a spanking new one right off the lot is not the right comparison, in my opinion.

My experience I am not sure whether it can be classified as a lateral upgrade or not, but Ill narrate it

I bought a 2000 ex-army MM550 and spent close to 3.75 lacs on the vehicle in refurbishing it getting it up to shape, using it for OTR's etc etc!!! Then I felt the need to upgrade/ change to a gypsy and began scouting for buyers for the MM550 and at the same time trying to find a used gypsy. It took me close to 5 month and I traded the MM550 (sold for 3.30 lacs) for a 2006 Gypsy King (bought for 3.25lacs).
Now some may say that I made a loss of 45k on the MM550 but I look at it this way that (1) I got to drive it around for almost a year, (2) gain knowledge that I wouldn't have gained otherwise and (3) had I bought any other vehicle costing 3.75 lacs I would have lost more than 45k after 1 year.
Also I may have paid about 10-20 grands more on the gypsy but I decided to pay a little extra for it as (1) It had 3 whole months of extended warranty remaining on the vehicle (2) Bought it directly from the seller and the vehicle has been maintained quite well (3) Got the service history checked from MASS, ODO meter reading was genuine (4) The seller has used the vehicle primarily for city commuting with only 1 trip to Leh.
So all in all this was the best vehicle that met my requirement and guys I had been on the hunt for 5 months, So decided to grab it.
Now 4 months into the ownership and one round trip of 3.5k kms of Rajasthan and Gujrat I am very very happy with my decision!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
for 2 - 3 years for 'em Fortuners to hit the used market . At 10 lakhs, they'll make for a great buy.
They sure will do. I am another buyer waiting in line for 2-3 years old used Fortuners.
Now a question comes to mind. With so much enthusiasm and waiting period for new Fortuners, do you think that 2-3 year old vehicles will be available in the sub 10 lac bracket???


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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
I am interested. So in 40 K what all things you have done? Can you please give me details? My bro wants to repair his car as well. He want it to feel like a brand new almost.
I dint spend 40k but in 2006 spent approximately 25 k +/- 20% on my 6 year old 80k kms driven Hyundai Accent on a partial paintjob, basic ICE, seat covers, new wind shield, sun film, central locking and couple of other small small stuff. After treating my vehicle I drove her for another 35k kms and then traded her for a 2.2 Safari Dicor in 2008
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Old 2nd April 2010, 22:41   #72
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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
Even this unique problem has a solution.

First get the cash ready, buy your upgrade car, and park it at home. Your old car can be parked at a used car dealer under the 'Park and Sell' arrangement. They'll wipe it clean for you and look after it till it gets sold. Also, its easier to direct prospective buyers to the Dealer and he will take care of the PR tasks leaving you free. It might cost around a grand, but it sure is worth it
Arun, I was not aware of this "Park and Sell" facility. What's in it for the used car dealer? Why would he waste his parking space, clean the car and even market it for Rs. 1000 or Rs. 2000? I suppose along with this fee, he is going to charge 2 or 3% brokerage fee too?

Although interesting, there is some risk in it. What if he keeps my car for 3 or 4 months and uses it as a taxi? Or what if he takes his girlfriend around for joyrides in my car?
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Old 2nd April 2010, 22:49   #73
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How this deal?
An i20 Asta (Petrol), 2 months old, 3500 Km for 4L. Black colour. Owner going abroad.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 23:43   #74
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Great thread GTO.

I always thought about going for a used car but frankly couldn't muster the courage after all the stories I have heard.
We do have some really good threads about how to go about it but well I am sure it's not that simple.

The one question I always had was about insurance cost. How much of a difference does the yearly insurance cost come to? and shouldn't that be factored in when buying a bigger(better) new car?

The other day I saw a skoda on sale for 3.5L in the team-bhp classifieds but didn't think of that because I was sure the insurance premium and the general expense for the upkeep of the car would be too much.

Do I have a valid reason?
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Old 3rd April 2010, 00:57   #75
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Very nice article GTO. Definitely a nice read
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