[mercedised]

Originally Posted by condor

Power decrease - 80 bhp instead of 90 bhp (CR4 vs 2.0 IDI TCIC)

The brochure shows a CR4 3.0L engine and another one is 3.0L TCIC. My question is if this 3.0L TCIC engine new. I mean has this been in production before? Like the 3.0L CR4 (or DICOR) has already done its work on Safari. I think it is just detuned for increased reliability.

[condor]

@Mercedised, the 3.0TC engine is one of the options in the Spacio series, and it used to be called Spacio Gold. I dont think that has a IC. Also, this 3.0CR4 is not the same as the 3.0 Dicor that we saw in the Safari. That one had about 105 bhp, but this has only 80Bhp. The Torque on that 3.0 Dicor was also higher.

One thing needs to be confirmed what happens to the Victa series - will it sell along side (with the 2.0IDI engine), or will the Gold replace the Victa series.

And the next step - will the Winger get this 3.0 CR4 engine instead of the current 2.0 IDI TCIC ?

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by mercedised

The brochure shows a CR4 3.0L engine and another one is 3.0L TCIC. My question is if this 3.0L TCIC engine new. I mean has this been in production before? Like the 3.0L CR4 (or DICOR) has already done its work on Safari. I think it is just detuned for increased reliability.

CR4 3.0, 3.0 TCIC, 3.0 DiCOR are nothing but different iterations of the Tata 407 engine that has been in production since 1986. If you notice, the CC of all these engines measures 2956 CC, with bore and stroke dimensions at 97 MM and 100 MM. Interestingly, Tata 410 LCV uses a non-CRDI, 100 HP version of the engine.

Originally Posted by condor

Also, this 3.0CR4 is not the same as the 3.0 Dicor that we saw in the Safari. That one had about 105 bhp, but this has only 80Bhp. The Torque on that 3.0 Dicor was also higher.

It is basically the same engine but with different tuning that results in different HP/torque figures. On Safari 3.0, this engine developed 115 HP. Perhaps they've reduced the power for better fuel efficiency.

Originally Posted by condor

One thing needs to be confirmed what happens to the Victa series - will it sell along side (with the 2.0IDI engine), or will the Gold replace the Victa series.

With Grande targetted at the urban market and Gold at the moffusil/rural segments, Victa will probably die its natural death. In any case, the lower end versions of the Grande come with the old, IDI 1948 CC engine.

Originally Posted by condor

And the next step - will the Winger get this 3.0 CR4 engine instead of the current 2.0 IDI TCIC ?

Winger seems too delicate for handling 3.0 CR4. Remember, Winger is front wheel drive with independent suspension. Fitting 3.0 could result in premature tyre wear and loss of alignment. They can use Safari 2.2 in Winger.

[VeluM]

The 3L Di Spacio was a nightmare with a sagging front end due to the weight and humungous noise and vibrations. I believe IDI engines are naturally more refined, but it will still need to handle the weight, right? Hope they've done enough to challenge the Bolero!

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by harimakesh

@Kaks15: Thanks for sharing the Refresh Sumo brochure.

Have you received price infomation for the refreshed Sumo?

Originally Posted by condor

@Kaks15, thanks for the leaflet

I visited this dealer casually with no intentions to inquire about sumo gold, but had seen this thread so asked him.

Anyways I called up the friendly executive again for prices, according to him ex showroom prices:

Sumo Gold CX 5.54
Sumo Gold LX 5.93
Sumo Gold EX 6.23
Sumo Gold GX 6.86

Also I remember one of his lines "this is real gold as it is a refreshed version with aggressive pricing."

[ashutoshb]

A small 'keep it simple, silly!' PS job :

[harimakesh]

Originally Posted by kaks15

Anyways I called up the friendly executive again for prices, according to him ex showroom prices:

Sumo Gold CX 5.54
Sumo Gold LX 5.93
Sumo Gold EX 6.23
Sumo Gold GX 6.86

Also I remember one of his lines "this is real gold as it is a refreshed version with aggressive pricing."

Thanks again Kaks15 for the price information.

Sumo Gold GX pricing is seemingly matching the Bolero at6.8L but Tata must have differentiated GX with ABS making it VFM and safe given 1925mm height of the vehicle at this height Sumo needs ABS to have better dynamics at quick braking circumstances.

Sumo Gold 3.0L CR4 80 BHP /250NM torque 1600-2000RPM which seems better than Bolero 2.5L m2CRDI's 195NM/ 1400-2200RPM

Sumo has great 4.9M turning radius comparing to Bolero's 5.8M.

Sumo's 4258mm lenght gives 151mm more length against Bolero's 4107mm which should translate into more cabing space and passenger legroom.

What is the kerb weight of Sumo? Could not find it in the brouchure.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

A small 'keep it simple, silly!' PS job :

You forgot to remove the stickers!
But a good job nevertheless.
I prefer the old Sumo grill which resembled that of the G-Wagon.
Cheers!

[vivekgk]

I think Tata is making a clear difference between the DiCOR and CR4 range of common rail engines. CR4 is aimed towards FE while DiCOR is about performance (Hence DiCOR name not being revived for the eCS/eV2). Anyway, a good move by Tata. New Sumo will be a worthy competitor to the Bolero, especially with the new engine. 22% more power and torque, as well as a bigger engine capacity. This should be nice to drive around, if Tata gets the engine response right at low revs. Looking at what they've done with the 1.4L CR4, I have high hopes.

The Sumo Gold likely won't poach private customers from the Bolero, courtesy the looks, but it could be a very good replacement for the high-volume government and fleet orders that the Bolero now caters to exclusively. I wonder if the 4x4 model can still be ordered with this engine.

They should also offer this engine on the Grande Turbo as an alternative to the 2L TCIC. And also on the Xenon, for a lower priced variant.

[motorworks]

If I remember correctly, The tata sumo was launched in 1997! 15 years down the line Tata has made numerous versions including the victa, spacio, tried all combinations of engines and there as even a version without doors on the lines of the old trax. Why do it now? To me this is Tata's biggest weakness--Sticking around with old models forever. Shouldnt they be just targetting to push the Grande? Create cheaper versions of the Grande and market them well. Instead if you keep introducing new versions of a 15yrs old model the overall company's image is stuck at a point and that is why people will not look at aspirational cars like Aria from Tata. This case applies to the Indica too. Even after the vista, they are not letting the old indica go out. They are still refreshing it and giving it all sort of names like ev2 and what not! Agreed there is a taxi market, but they need to take a call about that and take a hit for some time.

[simplyself]

This 3.0 litre engine is the common rail version of the DI first used in Tata 407 mini truck. The engine is robust, fuel efficient but a bit noisy. Engine-wise there wouldnt be any issues as the engine does duty even in Tata Hitachi earth movers.

[driving_smartly]

Originally Posted by simplyself

This 3.0 litre engine is the common rail version of the DI first used in Tata 407 mini truck. The engine is robust, fuel efficient but a bit noisy. Engine-wise there wouldnt be any issues as the engine does duty even in Tata Hitachi earth movers.

1.We had a Sumo Spacio with this engine (2956cc) from May 2002 to August 2008, it had done more than 3.25 lakh kms when the vehicle was sold off.

2. FE was around 13 kms. It was being used in our village which has all "kaccha Road".

3. The Engine is very robust, it never complained with regular servicing (Oil change) and Clutch plates changed quiet a few number of times it was a trouble free vehicle with small niggling issues here and there .

4. Was sold for Rs. 2.10 lacs

[condor]

Deliveries have started. Saw a white color Sumo today evening in Rajajinagar. Saw this Sumo driving past, and body colored front bumper was a little out of place (none of the current models have it). Couldnt make out much since it was in traffic, but I think it does not look as smart as with the contrast-color scheme that the Victa has.

[indianvirus]

Originally Posted by harimakesh

@Blue thunder:

please see the Merc G bonnet and overall exterior cues that have inspired Tata in Sumo designing

In my opinion, it's not TATA but mahindra taking cues (heavily) from G wagon.
The whole body shell is ditto in armada-bolero. I was surprised to see boleros racing me in "Midnight club" racing game, later realized they were G wagons.

The front of G wagon is copied by bajaj tempo- force motors. Front ends of older Trax and newer toofan look similar to respective G wagons.

Regards.

[WindRide]

Saw in newspapers of the Gold's launch yesterday. Strangely not able to find the official website for Sumo Gold!