[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Harbir

The Jazz is a bit of a misfit in the India market. This is not a market that considers it worthwhile paying premium prices for small cars on the recognition of their sophistication.

Thats not true. People are paying huge premiums on the i20. And its not just the lower variants of i20 that sell. I see a lot of Astas and I can hazard a guess that more than half of the i20s that sell in India are petrols.

What would you have to say about that?

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Thats not true. People are paying huge premiums on the i20. And its not just the lower variants of i20 that sell. I see a lot of Astas and I can hazard a guess that more than half of the i20s that sell in India are petrols.

What would you have to say about that?

The Asta comes loaded with more features than the Jazz and is priced lower . Indians love features and this is one reason the I20 petrol sells. I have talked to many people and they also said that they find the looks of the i20 better than the cab-forward design of the Jazz, but that is very subjective.

[Harbir]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Thats not true. People are paying huge premiums on the i20. And its not just the lower variants of i20 that sell. I see a lot of Astas and I can hazard a guess that more than half of the i20s that sell in India are petrols.

What would you have to say about that?

The i20 is not sophisticated in the sense the Jazz is. Its got an appeal that traditionally appeals to indians, which is a comfortable ride, a big car feel, and conservative but attractive looks. It lacks the levels of dynamic refinement and sophistication that make the Jazz such a stand out car in the major markets which are not appreciated in India.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Harbir

The i20 is not sophisticated in the sense the Jazz .....lacks the levels of dynamic refinement and sophistication that make the Jazz such a stand out car in the major markets which are not appreciated in India.

Having owned a couple of Hyundai and one Honda produts, has only confirmed my view that Hyundai give the best creature comforts, but is not high tech like Honda. So the lady of the house and most family members will like the Hyundai more than the Honda. Also, Honda were over-priced. However, as the ways of HyundaiASS are becoming known it may push some punters off them.

[VineetG]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

The AT units in the Civic and the City are the same.

Not really. While the tech is the same, the gear ratios are different, and they have different part numbers in Honda. You can't swap one for other. The drive ratios are
Civic
1st: 2.666, 2nd: 1.534, 3rd: 1.022, 4th: 0.721, 5th: 0.525

City
1st: 2.995, 2nd: 1.678, 3rd: 1.066, 4th: 0.760, 5th: 0.551

rgds

[rana_kirti]

why cant we have the 1.5 Jazz....?!? what is stopping/preventing it from being launched in india ?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

why cant we have the 1.5 Jazz....?!? what is stopping/preventing it from being launched in india ?

I think it is the Excise angle which Honda things may price it out of the market. I for one thought that when some small cars started coming with a 1.6 Honda may revive the idea. But that was not to be.

I will love to see the Jazz 1.5 AT see the light of the day.

Incidentally, in most markets the Jazz is a 1.4

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Harbir

The i20 is not sophisticated in the sense the Jazz is. Its got an appeal that traditionally appeals to indians, which is a comfortable ride, a big car feel, and conservative but attractive looks. It lacks the levels of dynamic refinement and sophistication that make the Jazz such a stand out car in the major markets which are not appreciated in India.

Well Harbir the point is Hyundai is able to sell i20 as a premium hatch (and for a premium price) while a premium company like Honda is not!

Traditionally people in India have willingly paid premium prices to own Hondas. I was just wondering what went wrong with the Jazz. I agree with you that Jazz is far more sophisticated than the i20. But that should have meant that the premium hatch market should have lapped it by doves like i20. But that didnt happen.

I think the biggest culprit is Hondas themselves. They hardly advertise it (looks like they dont want to sell it!!!). And the lack of an AT in Jazz is very much telling. An AT Jazz (like the one on City) would have helped it sell a bit more. I'd have bought it instead of the Vento if it was available!

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by joslicx

I think the biggest culprit is Hondas themselves. They hardly advertise it (looks like they dont want to sell it!!!). And the lack of an AT in Jazz is very much telling. An AT Jazz (like the one on City) would have helped it sell a bit more. I'd have bought it instead of the Vento if it was available!

I have a feeling that a lot on the AT front may depend on how the Brio AT sells. If it sells well, then they may be tempted to come out with a Jazz AT. However, I will expect it to be a premium vehicle with a 1.4/1.5 engine, Civic /City gearbox (or a 6/7 preset CVT), etc.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I have a feeling that a lot on the AT front may depend on how the Brio AT sells. If it sells well, then they may be tempted to come out with a Jazz AT. However, I will expect it to be a premium vehicle with a 1.4/1.5 engine, Civic /City gearbox (or a 6/7 preset CVT), etc.

Post Brio AT launch, any fall in i10/A* sales and any rise in Brio net sales, can we attribute that solely to Brio AT sales? I am going to stick my neck out on this and predict that Brio AT would be a big success. The age of the automatics is here and Honda should not delay bringing the AT Jazz to India.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by arup.misra

Did you experience lack of low end torque especially in 2nd gear?.

Yes, there is definitely a bit of lag in the initial pickup, but nothing serious. In fact, it's pretty nippy off the blocks. No "rubber band" effect felt either.

Originally Posted by StarScream

You know, the lack of a gear indicator in the instrument console is the thing I miss the most in my Santro AT. If the Brio had it, it was a definite buy but the fact that it doesn't, makes me lose interest. Sometimes, its the really small and insignificant stuff that matters the most.

Originally Posted by joslicx

I second this StarScream. At the time when I did TD of City AT, I really missed the gear indicator on the console (perhaps more because I had already test driven the Vento AT and it has got this feature and I find it quite useful. Sometimes for fun I just try to see how much I can rev before gears change RavenAvi it is quite useful feature in Automatics as in AT we are not totally in control of gears (perhaps thats why you dont miss it in your Pegasus as it is manual and you always know where you are). It is useful to know what gear we are in.

I hope instead of the Eco indicator Honda gives a proper gear indicator in their next iterations.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Wouldn't the letter on the gear console light up when you shift gears? Atleast this is how it used to be on the Civic in the middle east [apart from the lighting on the speedo]. So I expected the lighting on the letters next to the gear lever to be standard.

Originally Posted by kmadhok

What else can you share? Did the dashboard have any Gear shift indicators, ie, which gear the car is currently engaged in?

I stand corrected.

Reporting live from the dealership right now, and the Brio AT does indeed have gear indicators in the speedo console, arranged neatly in a semi-circular stack on the smaller right side console (which houses the ECO indicator).

I have taken pics and will post them when I return home later tonight.

[kmadhok]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Reporting live from the dealership right now, and the Brio AT does indeed have gear indicators in the speedo console, arranged neatly in a semi-circular stack on the smaller right side console (which houses the ECO indicator).

I have taken pics and will post them when I return home later tonight.

i know you mentioned this before but do you have further information on which variants AT will be offered?
Also while you are at it can you snoop around an find if they have a Jazz AT hidden somewhere?

[RavenAvi]

Reached home at 10 PM.

Here they are, as promised, along with my observations.


There's nothing in the outer body to show that it's an Automatic variant. Typical Honda. Nothing on front, sides or back.



You can easily make the mistake of thinking it's a regular V-MT.



The only visible differentiating factor.



Shod with Goodyears - 175/65/R14s.



The piece de resistance. (Excusez moi French)



The "P" and "N" lit up as light red, the "R" as dark red, and the "D, D3, 2, 1" as Bright Green.



No other noticeable difference in the speedo, even RPM meter looks same. Same tuning, just different ratios?



That's how the speedo and the steering will look.



Central console looks the same as the V-MT.



The box, again.



Popped open the hood to have a peek at the engine, and surprise, surprise!



A very prominent "Brio AT" badging on the engine. This is the entire engine bay.




- Engine is superbly smooth, refined and without any noticeable initial lag. Did not feel any "rubber band" effect as such. Team-BHP experts might clarify more on this in the official review, which I am sure will be up very soon.

- I am told they are aiming for a 6.49L OTR launching price for the V-AT.

- The second trim to don the AT engine will be the S(O) variant.

- Expect a difference of 50K between both variants, so that brings the S(O) variant at 5.99L OTR. Super pricing, if you ask me!

[joslicx]

Thanks for the pics ravenAvi. And Thanks to Honda for offering the AT Brio. I wish it were available last year when we booked ours.

I was under the impression that you would be able to know the gear (but then as its CVT probably this does not mean anything). Still I dont know what would be the use of having the P R N D 2 1 on the cluster? You are unlikely to be shifting the stick in an AT while its moving (or very rarely you'd do that).

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

- I am told they are aiming for a 6.49L OTR launching price for the V-AT.

- The second trim to don the AT engine will be the S(O) variant.

- Expect a difference of 50K between both variants, so that brings the S(O) variant at 5.99L OTR. Super pricing, if you ask me!

So we can expect the AT versions to have the same trim level as their MT counterparts right? where the S(O) only loses the Alloys and Fog lamps from the V?
Good pricing if the prices hold true as above, with the S(O) looking VFM.

Also - I think the prices are getting updated for MT versions too.