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Old 18th June 2014, 21:03   #151
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
The driver was pressed against the steering, and as you know, the buckle was on the other side, inaccessible after the crash. And please do not assume that the local people keep knives handy at all times.
All seat belts have a self locking mechanism. Once worn and in the event of a sudden pull the seatbelt will lock itself at the top end itself.
This prevents the person from moving forward. Effectively keeps him very close to the seat.

When you saw the accident and found the victim trapped between the steering wheel and the seat, it means the steering wheel intruded into the cabin space.
This happens in high speed collisions.
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Old 19th June 2014, 08:39   #152
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
The India in his version of reality probably only has two car choices: The Padmini and the ambassador.
This was just a sweeping statement to justify his decision. Politicians here gave up the Amby decades ago. They mostly use Innovas, Corollas or Skodas. And most have high end cars for private use.

The main reason the minster cancelled the order is that the decision was taken by the Transport Commissioner without consulting him, and this hurt his ego. Besides that, the minister probably doesn't like to wear seatbelts himself.

Kerala currently probably has the regressive politicians in India.
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Old 19th June 2014, 17:18   #153
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

Why is everyone blasting the Transport Minister? He has made a generalized statement saying 80% vehicles do not have seat belt, but would you have believed 50% if you take into account the number of auto's, Ace's, Dost's 407's, Mahindra Jeeps, buses,lorries and so many other vehicles without seatbelts. His staff probably gave him the figure which included two wheelers too.

But he has also said that steps should be taken to provide it (rear seat belt) and give the people sufficient time. Even after giving sufficient time and proper warning, if people do not wear rear seat belts, then action against them is understandable.

From what I have heard and read in the newspapers, within hours of the the circular being issued by the Transport Commissioner, this rule was being enforced to the fullest spirit and violators fined from Rs.100 to Rs.500. Especially with majority of bars closed in Kerala( A different issue altogether), I can understand their enthusiasm to meet their monthly targets. People might have felt this as harassment and complained.

I have nothing against seat belts, and fully welcome the move. Like other developed countries, seat belt culture is not ingrained into us nor enforced properly. Thankfully all new cars beep your brains out if the driver doesn't wear the seat belt.

Hence shouldn't this rule be enforced more logically with sufficient time and after drumming up a public awareness and support campaign instead of implementing it post-haste?
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Old 19th June 2014, 17:52   #154
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by microaubin View Post
From what I have heard and read in the newspapers, within hours of the the circular being issued by the Transport Commissioner, this rule was being enforced to the fullest spirit and violators fined from Rs.100 to Rs.500. Especially with majority of bars closed in Kerala( A different issue altogether), I can understand their enthusiasm to meet their monthly targets. People might have felt this as harassment and complained.
Ok, but why can't people wear seatbelts and then they would not have been fined in the first place? People can claim harassment by police, but they would not have been, if they were not caught on the wrong foot. Don't you think so?
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Old 19th June 2014, 22:57   #155
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Ok, but why can't people wear seatbelts and then they would not have been fined in the first place? People can claim harassment by police, but they would not have been, if they were not caught on the wrong foot. Don't you think so?
I don't think the usage of rear seat belts are enforced anywhere in India. Even if it is enforced anywhere else, it surely wasn't enforced in Kerala before. And let's face it, without proper enforcement surely you cant expect people to wear seatbelts be it in India, US, Europe or anywhere for that matter.

People are aware of the front seat belt rule, so if you are caught without wearing them you pay the penalty and remember to wear it next time and do not crib about it.

All I am saying is enforce it after making the general public at large aware that such a rule is going to be implemented from such a date and also clarifying the status of vehicles without provision for seat belt. Without clarity people will always have a chance to claim harassment.
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Old 20th June 2014, 10:06   #156
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
All seat belts have a self locking mechanism. Once worn and in the event of a sudden pull the seatbelt will lock itself at the top end itself.This prevents the person from moving forward. Effectively keeps him very close to the seat.
All retracting seatbelts have this mechanism and is called ELR (Emergency Locking Retractor). Those ones without the retracting mechanism (like the lap belt) are anyway supposed to be worn tightly enough to prevent movement. Most of the cars with airbags also have seatbelts with pre-tensioner and load limiter. Just before the impact, the pre-tensioner tightens the seatbelt and holds the occupant in place and as the airbag inflates, it releases the occupant in a controlled manner onto the deployed airbag. The load limiter ensures that the forces on the occupant's body, during this process, does not exceed the limit which the human body can endure. And all this happens within a few milliseconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
When you saw the accident and found the victim trapped between the steering wheel and the seat, it means the steering wheel intruded into the cabin space.This happens in high speed collisions.
Collapsible steering columns are meant to avoid this situation. In the event of an impact, collapsible steering column is supposed to buckle or crumple at several points to avoid the entire column being pushed back and into the cabin. If that does not happen, you will have a steering, pushed on to the occupant.

Last edited by A350XWB : 20th June 2014 at 10:08.
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Old 20th June 2014, 16:37   #157
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

Slightly off topic,So i presume the child seats sales are gonna shoot up.Any ways it was a good move by the TC but minister has taken the U turn as the sentiments in the minds of people were against it.
All said and done the move is welcome any day if it can save even a single life.But what about the busses?
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Old 20th June 2014, 19:49   #158
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

@microaubin; Rear belt fitting has been mandatory for over 15 years. What happens many people just hide them out of sight!! Maybe they even remove them!

My thimb rule so far - if on a highway rear belt usage is a must, in town it was optional (maybe I will change after Munde)
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Old 20th June 2014, 20:30   #159
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
What happens many people just hide them out of sight!! Maybe they even remove them!
Spot on, Prof! Many cabs don't have functional rear seat-belts, despite being relatively new ones. Sometimes the belt itself is missing or folded behind the rear seat (especially in hatchbacks and UVs). Even if the belts are there, the buckles are not present - they have been pushed under the seat or seat cover, rendering the rear belts completely useless. Sorry state of affairs!

Last edited by RSR : 20th June 2014 at 20:39.
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:19   #160
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

May not be to everybody's liking, but this article has some interesting points.

MODS, please delete if it is against policy to post external content.

src: http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes...hing-or-other/

Quote:
India’s quick-fix solution to problems is to ban something or other

Shortly after BJP leader Gopinath Munde was killed in a road accident in Delhi — allegedly because his official car was being driven at high speed by his chauffeur — a correspondent wrote in to say that in order to avoid such tragic incidents the government should impose a ban on all vehicles being driven at more than 50 kmph.
How such a blanket ban was to be implemented, at all times and all places, and whether such a drastic proscription was really necessary or even desirable, was not taken into consideration. There was a problem as there are too frequent road accidents in which people were being killed or injured. How to solve the problem? By adopting a process of educating drivers in particular and the public in general about road safety rules, and enforcing such rules with strict policing? No. Such a programme of public education was far too long-drawn-out. What was needed was a quick-fix solution. A ban.
We in India love banning things. A book, or a film, or a painting, might hurt someone or other’s religious/cultural/social sensibilities? Ban the book, the film, the painting or whatever the objectionable thing in question was.
Public health in the country is a matter of literarily grave concern? Instead of trying to improve the appalling primary healthcare system, not only ban smoking in public places — a good thing — but ban films which do not feature the mandatory warning that flashes on the screen whenever an actor lights up.
Rape and other violent crimes against women becoming an everyday event? Ban women from going out alone, particularly after dark. Ban women from wearing clothes which someone or other might find ‘provocative’.
Why is it that as a society we are so quick to jump on the banned wagon? Why is it that our first response to any problem is the simplistic ‘solution’ to ban something or other? Perhaps the reason is that we take our cue from sarkari policy by and large. In a democratic society the government tries to empower people. In India, our successive governments have sought only to empower themselves, to assert their authority, at the expense of people. The process of public empowerment is a long and tedious business, involving among many other things the spread of grassroots education and the raising of social awareness.
An extremely wearisome task. So much simple for the sarkar to use its power of veto and tell us what we can’t do — through a ban — than to enlarge the scope of what we can do. The ‘can’t do’ approach of bans is a symptom of a negative government, the polar opposite of positive governance marked by an emphasis of a ‘can do’ empowerment of all citizens.
The head of the new government, Narendra Modi, spelt out this problem when, soon after assuming office, he said that he believed in ‘less government and more governance’. In other words, a government which instead of telling people ‘you can’t do this’, not only tells people ‘you can do this’, but helps them to do it.
This would be a sea change for India, perhaps the most significant since Independence. And if it takes place it might help us jump off the banned wagon and onto the band wagon.
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:44   #161
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

Anyway as a common man on the road, I have seen the postive effect of law enforcement and higher fines imposed in Kerala. I live in trivandrum and here it is hard to find a person without hemlet on bikes/scooters ( some morons think they are smart for not putting the chin straps) or people jumping signals. Now a days people don't stop the car/bike right over the zebra crossing for the fear of fines reaching home. CCTV system have resulting in some fear induced obeying of traffic rule. The news below does give me a bit of sadness,
http://www.mathrubhumi.com/english/n...dy-148206.html
This guy had put up a good fight aganist the RTO agents and touts in RTO offices. I know this personally because, I tried to get a honda city registered these days. The road tax calculated at the dealership was correct to the last penny and I have receipt for the full amount. SA told me that it is very strict nowadays and no slack cut for agents anywhere.
Some political morons decided that we could do better otherwise.

Last edited by 999 : 25th June 2014 at 11:45.
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Old 25th June 2014, 13:50   #162
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

The problem is that everyone is considering wearing seatbelt is only for their safety.

It can become a criminal negligence when somebody else is killed by someone who didnt wear the seatbelt. In a moving vehicle any objects that are not buckled up or fixed is a recipe for disaster on sudden braking, imagine a 60kg object hitting from behind at 100kms/hr. This makes the whole BS of crying against rear seatbelts wrong since wearing a seatbelt doesnt make the driver or front passenger safe if the rear passengers are not buckled up.
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Old 28th July 2014, 18:29   #163
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

In Mysore,present Police Commissioner has issued instructions for strict enforcement of seat belt weraing for front seat occupants.Penalty for violation is Rs 100 for first instance.
The PC also recently implemented helmet rule for two wheeler riders and the cops are very strict in enforcing.
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Old 15th August 2014, 19:55   #164
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear). EDIT, revoked!

Dear BHP-ians, let me share a true story of my business partner and seat belts - rear and front. He was driving at a rather high speed on a rainy night in Mumbai about 15 years ago and hit something (not going into the details irrelevant to the thread) hard and fast. His wife was in the front passenger seat with her seat belt on and she escaped without a scratch other than some minor muscle pull. He was driving and went flying out through the windscreen and was seriously injured. His adult daughter sitting at the rear (no seat belts) went flying into the front and ended up hitting the dashboard and gear lever with a force that injured her seriously too. Luckily no fatalities. Draw your own conclusions. Kudos to the State Govt of Kerala.
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Old 29th August 2014, 20:56   #165
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Default Re: Kerala: Seatbelts mandatory for all occupants (front & rear)

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If you don't see the difference, you never will, even if I bang on my keyboard for hours. So I will leave it to you to figure it out.

If you are willing to turn a few pages backward and read what I wrote earlier, you would clearly see why I don't advocate having such laws here. In europe, you have a willing population, very low corruption, and have enough money at their disposal. In a country like ours, such laws only benefit the corrupt. These laws that will get misused, while being of meager benefit. We have more important law and order issues to be tackled, than having men in khaki standing by the road side flagging down motorists. Put them to better use. West does a lot of things which we can't afford to do, not that we don't want to do.

The libertarian in me says, create awareness. After all, I would respect somebody who would want to wear a seat belt.
How is it harassment if one is ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt? The police don't need to be focused on just this issue but can include this infringement in their general duties. Of course there can be drives to hammer home compliance from time to time. How will this benefit the corrupt? More people will start wearing seatbelts if they fear a fine. Whether it goes to the state or to the policemen's pocket, it will mean more safety for passengers.

Create awareness? What better way then to have a hefty fine. If one person gets fined, they will recount it to several others.
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