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24th April 2012, 19:38 | #76 | |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Here's a comparison of fastest laps from 2010 and 2012. Bahrain configuration changed since and Malaysian GP was partially wet this year, so maybe this comparison would make more sense later in the season. 2010: Formula 1 2012: http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html Quote:
Does that meant MotoGP is not driven by men? No refuelling, no tyre stops, high speeds, little downforce. Overtaking happens on track and not in the pits. That's the way it should be. Last edited by asr245 : 24th April 2012 at 19:43. | |
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24th April 2012, 21:33 | #77 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix I agree with Michael. In fact its not about managing tires anymore. Its 'nursing'. I think the tires need to last a little bit more. Harder tyres with less grip would challenge the drivers and would also not shred and create marbles. |
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24th April 2012, 21:39 | #78 | |||||
Senior - BHPian | Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
It might make sense if I call it Formula1 Entertainment Quote:
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I kind of understand what FOM, FIA & FOTA together has acheived now! Quote: Quote:
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24th April 2012, 22:32 | #79 |
BHPian | Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix I kind of agree with anachronix. When I sit to watch the race,I would like to see the driver's pushing their cars to the limit.The kind we saw in French GP 2004,when Brawn and MS pulled out a 4 stop strategy to defeat Renault and Alonso.With these Pirelli's I dont think we will get to see any driver setting up Delta timings for 22 straight laps. Its more like a lottery now.No one really knows how their car will react to the track on a given day with their tyres and everyone is playing it safe. |
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25th April 2012, 10:46 | #80 | |||
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
And about your claim of him whining, Nico Rosberg, Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button have all complained about the Pirellis, about them going off too quickly, or limiting the performance of their cars. Are these all whiners as well, and maybe "too old" as well ? Get a grip ! Quote:
Let me put that in bold : The F1 drivers of today are driving well within their capacity, which is not what F1 should be about. Quote:
So say, if Mclaren's fastest possible lap is a 1:30 (with normal tyres), and Sauber's fastest possible is a 1:32(with normal tyres), the tyres are limiting both these cars' performance in races such that both have to drive laps at 1:32. Which makes no sense at all. It makes for close racing because now even the mediocre teams get to compete with the top, yes, but its artificial. Its not F1 because the racing is artificially induced by a tyre. The engineers dont get adequately rewarded for toiling day and night to bring that 0.1 second improvement in lap time since the tyres are anyway going to make their car go slower. I'm all for close racing but not at the cost of making it an artificial show. Pirelli is on the right track with degradation rates IMO, but the tyre should in no way hinder car performance to level out the field. This is what Schumacher is hinting at, and I think its a valid point. | |||
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25th April 2012, 10:49 | #81 | ||||||
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
I am not sure if you have seen races from 80s, early 90s but if not please try and watch some. You will see how boring the races are today. I will partially agree that Pirelli's are creating artificial "fun" factor in the race but wouldn't call it DRS. Quote:
And btw, I think that's how Rubens Barichello won his first F1 GP. While others pitted to move to inters, he stayed out on slicks and won his 1st GP (he started 18th or something). Quote:
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Manufacturers should stick do doing what they do best - make engines. Leave the rest to the passionate folks. If you disagree on this, I think we will never see eye to eye on how F1 should be. Quote:
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And I am not a Schumi hater - I supported him during his Ferrari days and was excited to see him come back. But it's been a disappointment ever since. Kimi has made a much better impression in 4 races than MS has in 2+ seasons. Last edited by asr245 : 25th April 2012 at 10:58. | ||||||
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25th April 2012, 10:55 | #82 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Every sport adapts and changes over time. I guess DRS and KERS in F1 are just that. Like how batsmen in cricket have developed switch hits and scoops shots - something that Bradman would never have imagined. I guess Schumacher's complaint is borne out of frustration that Merc GP has the straightline speed but still cant get him a podium/win and the one chance he had in China so far, he missed out. In my opinion, when refuelling, car setup, pit-timing etc. is acceptable as strategy, tyre wear being one of these elements should not be a problem. Let drivers and teams learn to adapt! It is part of F1 and if it really is a complaint, more people will voice their opinion. Besides, its the driver's choice whether to nurse tyres for 30 laps or push like crazy for 15 lap stints and make an extra stop. If you are conservative, don't blame the tyres for not suiting you. Like Paul Hembrey mentioned - sad to see such comments from Michael when things aren't going his way |
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25th April 2012, 11:01 | #83 | |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
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25th April 2012, 11:31 | #84 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix good.car-ma good post. I agree with you but the problem here is that the tyres are becoming a major player in today's results which is really not the right balance. Michael is correct too but its not fair to blame the tyres now. The teams had testing before the season to give feedback to Pirelli. The rules are the same for every team, so i dont think they should complain. Either ways, its good for the fans and there would always be a group of fans who would like to see things different. I complained in 2010 that the tires lasted too long and now i complain about tires not lasting long enough :P. |
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25th April 2012, 11:54 | #85 | |||
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
As a result, the costs of running racing teams in that era spiralled out of control and would have resulted in a quick death of F1 if things continued that way. Golden era ? I doubt it highly. Thats a bit rich coming from you. I am not sure you implying that a 7X WDC with 20+ years of experience is whining when he makes a valid concern is really a sign of good discussion. Here is another "whiner". Martin Brundle, yes he raced in your so called golden era as well. So I think he ticks the right boxes for you : Reflections on Bahrain | Features & Experts | Sky Sports Formula 1 Why ? Quote:
Plus, I fail to understand why this whole "Schumacher is struggling" has to picture in to the discussion at all. Its only because you have an inherent agenda of trying to paint him as a whiner so you find reasons for his comments which are very valid, especially for a man of his experience and stature. Schumacher is not the type of racer who looks for excuses a la Barrichello, and in fact he is asking for the tyres to make it harder for himself and the drivers, because its too easy now to drive within the limits of his car. Why does this not get through to you ?? Quote:
Apples and oranges | |||
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25th April 2012, 12:19 | #86 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix PuntoMania, like i said, the sport keeps changing. Fans and drivers alike will react differently. When TC was banned there were drivers that suffered and those that flourished. Similarly with refuelling, tyre-stop banning etc. At the moment Schumacher is hitting out at Pirelli (personally i feel its a result of his frustration with current results) while others aren't. When has something he said not been taken out of context. So relax. If most drivers really are unhappy, more people will start speaking up. As for now FOM has made the choice that Pirelli's artificial spicing up of races is required for the sport. If enough people within the sport or responses in their annual fan survey indicate otherwise I am sure we will see a return to more durable tyres. Just to stir up a bit of controversy maybe Schumi is frustrated because he misses Bridgestone's special treatment read through paras 17 to 22 BBC Sport - Bahrain GP 2012: Gary Anderson on Kimi Raikkonen's display |
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25th April 2012, 12:19 | #87 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix McLaren claim that they were clocking a second faster on the Fri practice long runs than they did in the race. Clearly management/setup is the big issue, less to do with individual driving style. |
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25th April 2012, 12:34 | #88 | |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
-Sometime last year, Fernando Alonso said something along the lines of "if you really want more artificial racing, put wet weather tyres on cars in a dry race" -Lewis Hamilton has constantly been complaining that he cannot push his car without worrying about tyre degradation -Kimi Raikkonen, after last race said, he had one opportunity to challenge for the lead which he misjudged, after this his tyres were gone. One opportunity ? Seriously, if a driver is getting just one shot at taking a position because he's afraid for his tyres, then this is not racing. Is this what we really want to see ? From memory some of the best races I have ever seen are which I can immediately recollect are : Hungary 1998 - MS's 'qualifying lap' race Imola 2005 / 2006 - Two titanic battles between Alonso and Schumacher Suzuka 2005, Kimi's brilliant charge through the field Spa 1995 / 98 / 04 / 08/ 09 etc Suzuka 2000 - The all out war between Schumacher and Hakkinen Turkey 2006 / 2008 ..and many more All of these races involved drivers going hell for leather inside their cars, going as fast as their car would allow them to go, making memories for us racing fans with their special performances. This is simply not possible today. Today a driver has to just tippy toe around the track hoping that his tyres hold on to their pace more than his rivals and then overtake them. I dont think we understand the implications of all of this today. We have probably the best collection of racing talent the F1 world has ever seen in this grid, and its all going to waste because the Pirellis are not allowing drivers to express themselves. | |
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25th April 2012, 12:51 | #89 | |||||||
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Quote:
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Golden era ? I doubt it highly. Thats a bit rich coming from you. Quote:
Infact the only thing I have read about Pirelli is that drop-off in performance after optimum number of laps is much much more than Bridgestones. Which means penalty of making a mistake is higher. I equate it to having walls in street circuits (like Monaco) as compared to run-off areas in closed circuits. Penalty will be much higher in Monaco. So, don't make that mistake. Why does this not get through to you? As a fan you can't see him being criticized or accept that he's overdue on retirement - unless he can prove me wrong i.e. beat Rosberg nice and proper or just beat him. (Although having followed Rosberg since his early days in Williams, I am still to be convinced that he's a world beater) Quote:
When he beats him over an entire season, I will change my opinion. I will then make a call to sack Rosberg as I am convinced MS at 43 is not what he was say even in 2006. Even Massa was quite close to MS in the latter half of 2006 (except when it was wet). Quote:
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Who's the apple and who's the orange? Quote:
On the same lines, remember Monaco 2011? An epic battle for the lead was brewing when a safety car period followed by a decision to allow tyre change destroyed it. It was a procession there after - not a race. Last edited by asr245 : 25th April 2012 at 13:06. | |||||||
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25th April 2012, 12:55 | #90 |
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| Re: 2012 F1 - Bahrain Grand Prix Wow, heated arguments! Wait a bit guys. Have a look at this link- https://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...63148087073951. Schumacher was happy with Pirelli tyres during winter testing. He complimented them. So, ... |
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