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Old 28th January 2010, 18:14   #61
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Lets say knocking then its a connecting road issue right or its due to lean mixture?

If it's lean then why would it appear after 350km with EFI and why other C5 does not have the issue. Next month I'll find out whatever it is.

Till now 4 RE engineers have tried to listen to this noise and they found nothing wrong nor could they hear this noise. It's either Spitfire and my ear drums are hallucinating or they are intentionally trying to shut me up.

@spitfire- At least now you know where your headphones are
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Old 28th January 2010, 18:19   #62
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I second Spitfire. Like I said earlier, after hearing the audio clip, I think it is pinging dude to a lean mixture at the low end. And as Sankar Cheta says, only a plug chop will indicate the exact mixture at the particular rpm you're talking about. Yeah, many components like the hydraulic tappets too are sourced from some Harley model it seems. Any way, what do the RE mechs at the dealer say about the knock? Why are you riding around still if you have doubts? The best option would be to sort it out at the dealers end as quickly as possible, isn't it.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 28th January 2010, 18:22   #63
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Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
Will get it checked next month although here is the link to the offending noise(knock) you can hear it on acceleration.

4shared.com - music and mp3 sharing - download Sound clip 13.wav
@Randhawa - I can hear what seems like knock around the 25th second. I cant speak for the CL500 but can share my experience with my LB500. The engine sounds like that on my LB500 if I try to accelerate from 50 in 5th gear. Appears to me the CL 500 is just as intolerant to lower speeds in higher gears, so the solution is to use 5th only for cruising. I shift up to 5th at 80 and at the slightest hint of deceleration shift down between what feels like 60-70. You must be in lower gears to avoid lugging, in some ways the big single behaves like some of the smaller indo-japs in this respect.

After changing my riding habits, now i hear the noise only most prominently when i try to accelerate off a steep slope in 1st gear on my LB500. I suspected the same thing - piston slap, but most mechanics I showed(company operated service center included) it to said some noise is present in all the bikes to varying degrees. If my memory serves me right, it is there in the CI500s as well. It smooths out as speeds climb over 60 kph in 5th and is audible most clearly under load. There is no loss of power, no black smoke or loss of top end.

Having said all that, not that it will be of much comfort to you, but I have backordered a bore-piston kit for my LB500.
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Old 28th January 2010, 19:21   #64
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@Beast of burden- Na man you are getting it wrong. It's not from lugging as I hate that and never do it on bikes or cars. Noise from lugging is way to loud. Might do it once just for you I was in 3rd gear throughout the clip duration.

@Jay- I have been complaining about the noise just after 4th day of my ownership. All I get from the dealer is keep riding and don't worry, if anything goes wrong then we will take care of it. Seems like I am speaking to a wall.

Only one mech has agreed to hear the knock and he agrees with me on piston knock. Rest don't want to speak up and politely tell me to ask the engineer. Who has so far not acknowledged the noise and when I played the clip to him, he said that's normal.

He's holding me up till the RE engineers from Chennai come around and only then he wants them to open up the engine. I feel he just wants the responsibility to be put on to somebody else.
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Old 28th January 2010, 19:45   #65
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Make a sound clip with the vehicle on the mainstand and accelerate the way you do normally.

In neutral ofcourse.

Engine knocking is not due to connecting rod issue.

Why after 350km? it can happen anytime. Also is your fuel from a reasonable source?

That EFI has a choke, guess why? I remember saying somewhere earlier its a basic EFI.

Also did the Engineers take a test ride and check for the sound or with the bike on the main stand?

Last edited by Spitfire : 28th January 2010 at 19:49.
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Old 28th January 2010, 20:30   #66
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Nothing to get paranoid about.

And no I dont work for RE.
Well problem or not the bike will be with me for a long long time. This is my first tangible purchase since i started earning 5 year ago

Also I guess Randhawa is able to spot mistakes which most of us might overlook until service. Good luck dude. i hope RE is able to rectify your problems
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Old 28th January 2010, 21:16   #67
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@Spitfire

In this video you can hardly make out but if observed carefully just about when I accelerate, it comes for 1/2 a second and goes away with rising RPM.

Engineers took a test ride and observed it on a centre stand as well. While I kept on telling them and reproducing the noise. All I got was which noise, we cant hear it. All is well

My ears(listening) are sharp enough and well tuned to mechanical noises but yet to master the knowledge needed to pin point.

I get fuel from one of the well renowned pump's in Chandigarh. Switched from normal to high octane as well but the end result is always the same.

Once thing crossed my mind once was what if the timing is not right?

I agree with you that it has a basic ECU. The by-starter(choke) opens up a extra hole from the intake and increases the intake pressure(air) which is sensed by the APS and the mixture gets rich.

But what will make ECU to change the the mix to lean till certain rpm when the values on the map are fixed. I mean why it started doing after few hundred Km's?
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Old 28th January 2010, 21:22   #68
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Just to get the lean-mixture possibility out of the way, would engaging the choke cause the mixture to richen up and then you can see if the sound remains.

Unless that is bad for the engine. Im a noob wrt AFRs
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Old 28th January 2010, 21:30   #69
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Well this may not apply to RE's but certain problems are actually sorted by resetting the ECU.why don't you do one thing.

Disconnect the battery.try the self a few times.and then after a few minutes reconnect the battery.Idle the bike for a minute and then whack open the throttle.till it hits the max revs and then let go of the throttle.don't hold the throttle at the max rpm.it just has to touch and you leave the throttle.

This may be debatable.but i'm not interested in it.since this won't do your engine any harm its worth a shot.
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Old 28th January 2010, 23:15   #70
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@greasemonk- I have tried it all ready, nothing changes.

@navpreet- I agree with you on the resetting stuff. I have tried it and worked on my E36 but that was OBD II ECU. Don't know whats on C5.

Will give it a shot anyway.

How are the C5 lot doing in Dehradun?
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Old 29th January 2010, 12:46   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indian21r View Post
This is my first tangible purchase since i started earning 5 year ago
Hard earned money is never going to get wasted, unless one is stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
@Spitfire

In this video you can hardly make out but if observed carefully just about when I accelerate, it comes for 1/2 a second and goes away with rising RPM.
Ok heard it. 21-22 secs and around 30 secs. Its tappet noise. Normal i guess. Its present in other bikes too. Nothing much you can do. I will recheck again tomorrow. Dont have a bike in Bangalore. Anyone here whom I can trouble over the weekend? Orelse will head to a RE Showroom.

If this is on a warmed up bike then the sound might be more on a colder engine.

I guess the hydraulics part only takes care of the periodic adjustments and not the noise, maybe its the alloy. I thought they had doen better.

Quote:
My ears(listening) are sharp enough and well tuned to mechanical noises but yet to master the knowledge needed to pin point.
Good enough. Now only differentiate between noise made and engine behaviour. That should help you pinpoint the cause.

Quote:
But what will make ECU to change the the mix to lean till certain rpm when the values on the map are fixed. I mean why it started doing after few hundred Km's?
Why do you say it was not lean before?
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Old 29th January 2010, 15:24   #72
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I am a happy bunny today

Solved the puzzle of twitchy high speed behavior today

Although reducing the tyre pressure to 22psi at rear had helped a lot. I carefully examined the rear to front tyre alignment today and noticed a difference which I had previously observed as well. Kept on thinking why is it like that and what can be done to improve it.

Once I thought the chassis was twisted or misaligned.
Then thought of checking the rear axle cam teeth's. On one side it was 13 and other side it was 12. I had such a grin on my face at that moment. Went straight to the workshop, got the cam set to 12 on booth sides.Headed straight back to home and took a long empty stretch. Blasted straight on.

Now it's rock solid at 124. I am sooo happy.

Suggestion to other CL owners

If you feel your bull's behavior is twitchy at high speeds then do check your rear axle cams. It doesn't have to be same on booth sides, you just have to get the rear tyre aligned to front and that's all. You have to test & try until you are happy.

@spitfire- Its not the tappets. The tappets will work twice the stroke and the noise I have comes once with every stroke or thump.

I reset the ecu and nothing changed. Why I don,t think its lean?
In the morning when I started with the choke, I could smell fuel from the exhaust and noise was still there. Hence I rule out the lean mix issue for now.

Secondly I had a chat with my dealer today. This guy has experience worth 35 years with bullets. Explained him my issue and he carefully observed the noise. He could make out the noise and we chatted about it for a while.

We came to a conclusion that my bike is making better then average compression on CL5 compared to others around. As few C5 owners who have ridden my bike did mentioned the pickup was better compared to their bikes. Although grass is always greener on other side so I take that with a pinch of salt. All now I have to do check the compression on my bull and compare it with factory manual. According to which it should be +- 100psi.

So may be its a genuine trait with some high compression related noise. But for now I am feeling a bit better. Will rule out this theory upon checking the compression.
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Old 29th January 2010, 16:46   #73
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So may be its a genuine trait with some high compression related noise.
So its not a mechanical noise?

Did the 35 year old experienced person tell you that you need to run a higher octane fuel now to avoid knocking as your engine is running a higher compression?

How did he find out it was running higher compression - by listening to the noise you were bothered with?
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Old 29th January 2010, 17:47   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randhawa View Post
We came to a conclusion that my bike is making better then average compression on CL5 compared to others around. As few C5 owners who have ridden my bike did mentioned the pickup was better compared to their bikes. Although grass is always greener on other side so I take that with a pinch of salt. All now I have to do check the compression on my bull and compare it with factory manual. According to which it should be +- 100psi.

So may be its a genuine trait with some high compression related noise. But for now I am feeling a bit better. Will rule out this theory upon checking the compression.
Randhawa,

What is the correlation between high compression and noise?

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 29th January 2010, 18:04   #75
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Originally Posted by JayPrashanth View Post
Randhawa,

What is the correlation between high compression and noise?

Cheers,

Jay
Apart from pre-detonation\knocking which you have already ruled out by using high-octane fuel.
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