Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th December 2008, 16:49   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,649
Thanked: 242 Times
Thumbs up Cracking the Da Vinci "TATA Safari 2.2l" ECU Code

TATA's ECU is as ambiguous as Veerapan during his glory days. Noone knows how it works, no information is available on the virtual world and no standard ECU diagnostic software works.

Keen on cracking the Da Vinci "Safari 2.2l ECU" code, I started looking for ECU hardware and software to work with it. My assumption, it sells in certain countries in EU and any vehicle sold in EU after 2006 has to be EOBD (based on OBD-II) compliant and also assumed no separate production lines for Export Safari, I was WRONG (unless they use a compliant ECU for exports only, different from India).


Evaluation

I started evaluating Autotap based on the screenshots and had made up my mind till they responded that they are only OBD compliant(not aware of EOBD). So that made me scouting for another option, had to decide fast as my cousin was coming over in 2 weeks from US.(Very difficult to find the interface hardware that can be bought off-the-shelf in India).

From Autotap, I went to Scantool (ELM) and then OBDpros (ELM compatible), which I am glad I did, I was very satisfied at the prompt response and the level of support they provided over their forum, very customer friendly. Few Queries and it was confirmed.

The firmware of OBDPro can be updated online for new features and another reason was that I wanted something cheap, just in case I have to junk it on compatibility reasons. Most Software based diagnostic tools support ELM and Autotap does not use ELM, OBDpros fitted the picture perfectly.

In the meantime I was also looking around for a good Diagnostic software looked at Digimoto, OBD2007, Proscan etc. Decided on OBD2007 as a shortlisted product, they had a 7 days fully functional Demo to evaluate.


Purchase

Made the purchase online, around thanksgiving, product was delivered and flown over to bangalore by my cousin. My cousin's comment " Usually I check the products for their working before carrying them but for this I couldnt make out heads or tails on how to test it out", I smiled.


Installation and Connection

I was keen to connect it to the ECU and explore, I connected OBDpro to the laptop, it asked for drivers and picked it up from the supplied CD and thats it.

Launched OBD2007, connected to the device using the ISO14320-4(KWP2000 Fast init) but then disconnected, tried again, same issue.Opened up the log file to find it was connecting properly and then disconnecting after the Software was issuing a mode command.

I posted the query on the OBDpros forums and Paul from OBDpros asked me to use the console to check if the ECU was respondig properly to the mode commands, which it was. Paul suspected that the ECU is not responding to certain modes and therefore Graham from OBD2007 would be able to help as there was a special tag to stop the non-compatible modes, which Graham later confirmed that there is none, as OBD2007 is fully compliant as per OBD-II standards and also indicated that the Safari doesn't support service mode 06.

It was unusual for a vehicle to not support service Mode 06 and the correct response when a ISO 14230-4 vehicle doesn't support service mode 06 is a negative response indicated by a $7F response, not the "NO DATA" response. Due to this Safari locks up its ECU, so that any following supported commands also responds with a "NO DATA" and in effect no more data can be obtained from the ECU.

The conclusion was that the implementation of OBDII in Safari is not complete and therefore the vehicle is not OBDII compliant as per SAE 1979 and ISO 15031-5.This disheartened me as I was always more sceptical on the hardware connection part(which worked) and not the software compatibility.

So again I quickly started searching on an alternate software which does not issue a mode06 commands. Paul pointed me towards OBD diag bundled in the supplied CD for the basics and I was also able to search Dashcommand from Palmer performance.

Dashcommand does not need any settings and the moment I launched the Demo version it started showing me the RPM readings(Demo shows only RPM), that raised my hopes. A search further in their forums lead me to the answer I was expecting, their PCMScan software does not support Mode06, Yesss.

So PCMscan was the "ONE" diagnostic software I was looking for.


Other details

The Various modes of Operation for an ECU:

Mode $01 provides Powertrain information – Parameter Identification (PID’s)
Mode $02 displays Freeze Frame data.
Mode $03 lists the total number of emission related DTC’s stored. It also displays exact numeric, 5 digit codes identifying the faults.
Mode $04 is used to clear DTCs, Freeze Frame, O2 Tests, System Monitors and other emission related information.
Mode $05 displays the oxygen sensor monitor test results gathered about the oxygen sensor.
Mode $06 is a requests results for Non-Continuously Monitored System. There are typically a minimum value, a maximum value, current value, and a Pass or Fail determination for each non-continuous monitor.
Mode $07 is a request for Continuously Monitored Systems reported as Pending DTC’s. There are only three continuous monitors to be identified: fuel, misfire, and the comprehensive component.
Mode $08 provides a bidirectional test function to control the operation of an on-board system, test, or component.
Mode $09 is vehicle identification, including VIN and controller calibration number


Supported PID's by Safari 2.2l

PCMscan has the Classic Dashboard and the DashXL tool, using which you can design a custom dash, based on the PID's supported by your vehicle. PCMscan detected 32 PID's supported by Safari 2.2l as below:
A/C System Refrigerant monitoring support
Absolute Throttle position
Air flow rate from Mass Airflow sensor
Boost Pressure
Calculated Load value
Catalyst Secondary Support
Commanded Secondary air status
Comprehensive component monitoring status
Comprehensive component monitoring support
Compression Ignition monitoring supported
Distance travelled whiel MIL is activated
EGR system Monitoring Status
EGR system Monitoring Support
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine RPM
Evaporative system monitoring support
Fuel Flow rate
Fuel Rail Pressure
Fuel System Monitoring Status
Fuel System Monitoring Support
Heated catalyst Monitoring support
Instantaneous Fuel Economy
Intake Air temperature
Intake Manifold Absolute pressure
Malfunction Indicator lamp Status
Misfire monitoring support
Number of Emission related DTC's stored in this ECU
OnBoard Diagnostic System Type
Oxygen Sensor Heater monitoring support
Oxygen Sensor monitoring support
Secondary Air system Monitoring Support
Vehicle Speed sensor
An agressive scan is required to Validate each of these, which I havent done yet but to give you a flavour of dashboard, see below, it works.

Cracking the Da Vinci "TATA Safari 2.2l" ECU Code-zh_01-dec.-19-16.30.gif
Screenshot taken from Actual Running


Acknowledgements:
Paul Smith, OBDpros
Graham McKechnie, GLM Software

PCMScan
dadu is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:00   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
simply_sunny001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London & Rohtak
Posts: 1,339
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

thats super cool Dadu

kudos to your efforts.Now we dont have to rely on stupid TASS people who know nothing about so many things.

Heck we can trouble shoot our problems now and pinpoint them exactly.Gr8
simply_sunny001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:10   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,018
Thanked: 360 Times
Default

Great Effort Dadu , This is what is meant by car enthusiast
amitk26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:12   #4
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,607
Thanked: 14,893 Times
Default

Dadu, can you tell the costs and equipment involved, and how much do they cost(including software?)
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:24   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Panjim, Goa
Posts: 361
Thanked: 153 Times
Default

Wow! keep us posted as you do more tests. BTW, what exactly is an "aggressive scan"? How exactly is it different from a routine scan? Thanks in advance.
Astleviz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:28   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,649
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Dadu, can you tell the costs and equipment involved, and how much do they cost(including software?)
OBDPro scan tool USB/ Serial : $84.99

OR

OBDPro scan tool Bluetooth: $159.95 + postage

You can opt for one based on your connectivity.

PCMscan software license:$99.95
dadu is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 17:53   #7
adc
Senior - BHPian
 
adc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,343
Thanked: 2,065 Times
Default

Fantastic dadu, way to go. Kudos to your hard work and single minded determination.

The next thing is the CD that is with TASS, from Horizon Graphics, and you are all set with your own service station.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post1049354

Congrats again to our next would be Dbhpian, dadu.
adc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 18:12   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
maddy42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Coorg
Posts: 1,771
Thanked: 383 Times
Default

Congrats Dadu. Really nice effort.
maddy42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 18:59   #9
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,575
Thanked: 1,234 Times
Default

Great effort Dadu.

Is this a default screenshot or was the vehicle moving?
jkdas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 19:05   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,374
Thanked: 923 Times
Default

Looks like default to me, cause if the vehicle was moving the fuel pressure would not be at 0.

PS: Are you in the mood to do the same exercise for a Swift Petrol?
vikram_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 19:08   #11
BANNED
 
sfilinto's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mostlly bangalore
Posts: 102
Thanked: Once
Default

Interesting !! have been attempting to make one for the palio myself ( D-I-Y using components available off the shelf ). its a work-in-progress for quite some time now. hope to finish it during the christmas holidays.
sfilinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2008, 19:09   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 117
Thanked: 32 Times
Default

great effort dadu looks like i will have to bother whenever my safari misbehaves !!!!
sanjz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2008, 14:16   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,649
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

Thank you guys!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
The next thing is the CD that is with TASS, from Horizon Graphics, and you are all set with your own service station.
Its finished alright, but not released yet to the service personnel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Great effort Dadu.

Is this a default screenshot or was the vehicle moving?
Vehicle was moving, look at the speed and Rpm, this is one of the default dashboard though. Forgot to select the PID for Fuel pressure so no reading there. PID's have to be selected for each reading in the dash so that it can probe only those in the ECU.

Another good feature of PCMscan is that you can have 2 modes, one to just view the live data and second to record it, for later viewing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
PS: Are you in the mood to do the same exercise for a Swift Petrol?
I have the equipment now, we can do it for any vehicle as long as it connects, each vehicle will have separate sets of PID's supported though. So custom dashboard will need to be generated for the ones not in the standard template.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
Wow! keep us posted as you do more tests. BTW, what exactly is an "aggressive scan"? How exactly is it different from a routine scan? Thanks in advance.
Aggressive scan actually exchanges data with each PID confirming that the ECU is actually responding to each supported PID properly. With the routine scan it just ascertains that the PID is present not knowing whether it will work or not when you configure it in the dash.

Last edited by dadu : 20th December 2008 at 14:24.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2008, 15:21   #14
BHPian
 
sameel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: cochin
Posts: 268
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

its a delphi unit right

and please be carefull with the delphi injectors dont even think of playing around with the rail pressure. they are very sensitive and wont take much abuse.

those who are interested in getting the whole set up running,

i can tell you guys what all software you guys will be needing the hardware and yes

an open loop or closed loop lab car

delphi CR units are a pain to modify. PSI engineers had told me this problem that is why they dont bother to release an engine specific box for the safari.

but yes none the less its possible.

if its the EDC16C04 series from bosch as in scorpio then i can tune it anyway i want it. and yes fault diagnosis is easy if you know the DSM module . then all you need is the FID info.

tell me the microcontroller used. we use the inpheneon tc1796 thats for the piezo type.
if you guys can get me the info of the base line hardware then i can help i guess.

i am familiar with motorola DSP too

those who are seriously looking at some serious diagnostic and in depth ECU reflashing. yes Re-mapping can start off with the following stuff.

1) INCA ( ETAS)[ supports can protocol, Jtag protocol and many more) this can be used to flash Hex files hehe . and yes if you guys want to play it safe then you can use it in a LAB -CAR ( closed loop is best but very very very costly 1.5Cr rupees to be exact!)
open loop is lest coslty 80lakhs to be exact. but its not that accurate.[ no feed bck from vehicle, for example we can give 100% acc ped and still the engine rpm will be the same.lolz . in actual car we all know as accped increase leads to increase in Epm_nEng)
you will be needing an es590/690 interface also its used for interfacing the ECU

2) if you want to do low level diagnosis UAD is the best it supports raw flashing, and yes it supports different types of ECU familys yes non bosch too. [ even denso and visteon !!]

i am now on leave till 28th so yes will be more or less online if you guys have any doubts then i will try to clear them staying inside the Data Security policies of Bosch .

cheers
sameel
sameel is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2008, 18:58   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,649
Thanked: 242 Times
Default

Thanks for the info sameel, the tools/ software I am talking about do not change anything in the ECU, they are diagnostic tools meant to read only and cannot be used for flashing(even accidently), so perfectly safe.

Remapping and tuning are a different ballgame altogether.

Last edited by dadu : 20th December 2008 at 19:02.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
"Check Engine" light also indicates ECU "relearning" ? anandpadhye Technical Stuff 23 22nd August 2016 22:13
Swift DDIS SVS Light turns Off only after engine starts(ECU records immobilizer code) tush Technical Stuff 58 10th November 2014 20:51
Tata Safari Dicor 2.2 Paint Code Sankar Modifications & Accessories 10 6th April 2008 00:33


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:52.

Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks