Modifying Gypsy 410w

khan_sultan · 3rd July 2008, 10:28

Spitfire, There is not much complexity in the SPOA for a Gypsy. That's what I have gathered after reading/researching a lot about SPOA for Samurai. In India people have not got it done hence not many examples of SPOA and not many mechanics who can do justice to it.

In my opinion, the critical aspect is the ability of the mechanic to pull it off. I have full confidence in the parts that we would have to fabricate for the SPOA. The advantage that we have abroad is that the complete kit would be available off the shelf and here in India we will have to go to several places to get it done.

This is what would be required for the SPOA:

Front wraparound spring pads
Rear wraparound spring pads
2- 7" longer front brake lines
1- 7" Rear brake line extension
Front and rear driveshaft extensions
Front and rear long travel shock mounting
Front and rear HD Ubolt plates
Front and rear custom Ubolts.
Custom height Zlink steering linkage

Also here are some visuals of some critical parts of SPOA. I am sure our mechanics are competent enough to pull this this off.

However, having said that; I am yet to find a mechanic that is willing to take up this project for my Gypsy

Have contacted Psycho for this. Let's see if he is willing to take this up.

Spitfire · 3rd July 2008, 10:57

@Shahnawaz: Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I have been doing research on my own too but i guess with what you have outlined above my search has become much easier.

Actually i was also of the same opinion that SPOA for the Gypsy would not be too difficult. We will need to engineer this well. With these parts being the main load bearing components for the whole vehicle i was not too sure about getting them fabricated locally(Goa), Bangalore maybe a different scene.

Has anyone you know tried to import these? There are a few available on ebay.

Wonder why any garage will not want to do this mod. I have a garage(partly owned) back home. I can try this if i have the right parts available.

Hoping Psycho agree

khan_sultan · 3rd July 2008, 11:05

Spitfire, Man.. you have a garage and yet not going for SPOA it

. If I had that luxury, I would have done it -- many times over.

I have lots of reading material on SPOA for a Gypsy with detailed instructions etc for getting it done. I know that there are SPOA kits available from $500 onwards in US. The challenge is how to get these here.

Let me know if you need the reading material and I will zip it and send it across to you by email.

Stalionjatt1161 · 3rd July 2008, 23:50

Well i know about the boat engines.
We also get them in Doraha.
I remember driving an Opel Astra with that diesel engine
It ran very smoothly but the vibrations were too much.

I have tried all the engines like the toyota 1800 cc, nissan, isuzu etc
but they were not upto the mark. My Family has many Willy jeeps
and My Chacha ji has an 1950 model Ford Willy
First hand owner.

It is a Left hand drive. SO cant be used on Highways.
just for the Pind stuff.

I like the Isuzu 2400cc engine.
My uncle told me that it runs good and it can run an AC without a huff.

My uncle went straight to Delhi for that Engine from Chandigarh.
and brought it all the way back to Chandigarh.

Ignazio · 4th July 2008, 04:27

Hi
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Visit the full web site, it is at least useful to have an idea of the stuff they make.

Ciao

Ignazio

arun ravi.k · 4th July 2008, 14:19

Hi Good God i am surprised to have so many worthy responses in such a short time.
In fact i have zeroed in on a toyota 1N turbo and members ex670c and jyobeb are right. I am retaining the 4WD and i was intending to use the same gypsy gearbox. But the idea of finding a gypsy king gearbox with a fifth overdrive is very interesting and i am now up to it . Dear jyobeb do you have any idea if the gypsy king gearbox and the esteem gearbox are both the same or are they different?

Also as an additional information Maruti Udyog Limited had actually tried giving a diesel option using the peugeot diesel engine they use in the Zen and Esteem diesel (309 gld engine) but dropped it for cost reasons. The Toyota 1NT generates slightly more power and torque than the peugeot. The reason i was considering the Peugeot is you get the spares easily.

Thanks guys for your opinions and it has reassured me and i on the job and will let you all know in a months time with pictures. Thanks again for the enthusiastic help from all directions.

arun ravi.k · 4th July 2008, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by arun ravi.k

Hi Good God i am surprised to have so many worthy responses in such a short time.
In fact i have zeroed in on a toyota 1N turbo and members ex670c and jyobeb are right. I am retaining the 4WD and i was intending to use the same gypsy gearbox. But the idea of finding a gypsy king gearbox with a fifth overdrive is very interesting and i am now up to it . Dear jyobeb do you have any idea if the gypsy king gearbox and the esteem gearbox are both the same or are they different?

Also as an additional information Maruti Udyog Limited had actually tried giving a diesel option using the peugeot diesel engine they use in the Zen and Esteem diesel (309 gld engine) but dropped it for cost reasons. The Toyota 1NT generates slightly more power and torque than the peugeot. The reason i was considering the Peugeot is you get the spares easily.

Thanks guys for your opinions and it has reassured me and i on the job and will let you all know in a months time with pictures. Thanks again for the enthusiastic help from all directions.

Dear jyobeb you are right. i have to go only for a gypsy king gearbox. i did not remember that the esteem gearbox is a front wheel drive. i hope to find a gypsy gearbox old or new asap. Thanks again for the advice.

headers · 4th July 2008, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I don't think any of the commonly available diesels can be swapped into the gypsy without losing 4WD.
Thats the reason all diesel gypsies are 2WD

You could retain the 4wd setup with an adaptor plate custom made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Cyrus, the stock bumper is not suitable for installing a winch in the Gypsy and the bumper on this gypsy is on 'similar' lines that is put by off-roaders in their Samurai's world over. This modified bumper is much more functional than the stock one in rock crawling and off-road situations.

For pure off-roading, the looks are secondary and functionality is #1 priority and that's why the owner has tried to do a lift job also.

From the pics, one can see that the SPOA mod has been done. However, as GTO said, it needs more wider wheels to make the lift job effective. currently this setup could adversely effect the stability and increase rollover chances in extreme situations

Infact, i am planning to do the SPOA mod on my gypsy as well and also remove the 'rear overhang'. Can't find a mechanic who can do justice to these 2 mods.

Anyone, any pointers (in Bangalore)??? Any brave tuner/mechanic willing to take up this here in Bangalore?

Sir, the stock bumper can take a winch. I've a friend who has done that! And you can cut the rear overhang too. Guess you know that I;ve done it.

jyobeb · 4th July 2008, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by arun ravi.k

Dear jyobeb you are right. i have to go only for a gypsy king gearbox. i did not remember that the esteem gearbox is a front wheel drive. i hope to find a gypsy gearbox old or new asap. Thanks again for the advice.

Glad to be of help. A King gearbox would be very hard to find. Why don't you try Pudupet in Chennai. Arka could help you with that. The Toyota 1N Turbo is a good choice, as it is light as well as powerful. An adapter plate can be done in Chennai too.

DirtyDan · 6th July 2008, 07:55

The only Toyota engine they know how to maintain up here is the Qualis-Innova D4D type.

I am wondering if the Tata 3.0L Di Turbo currently used in the Sumo could fit in the Gypsy? Whatever short comings Tata may have, this is a fine engine, long life and reliable.

The bonnet can always be modded if the eng is too tall.

jyobeb · 6th July 2008, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

The only Toyota engine they know how to maintain up here is the Qualis-Innova D4D type.

I am wondering if the Tata 3.0L Di Turbo currently used in the Sumo could fit in the Gypsy? Whatever short comings Tata may have, this is a fine engine, long life and reliable.

The bonnet can always be modded if the eng is too tall.

Too heavy! The lightweight gypsy would be extremely front heavy affecting all the good things it is renowned for.

DirtyDan · 6th July 2008, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

Too heavy! The lightweight gypsy would be extremely front heavy affecting all the good things it is renowned for.

Yeah, maybe. The front suspension could be strengthened. If it is only a difference of 100 kilos then it may not matter. I will look into it and see just how heavy that 3.0L is.

Am wondering what other options there are from Mahindra or whoever. Toyota is supreme but nobody knows their motors up here. Here it is Mahindra or Tata or Toyota D4D.

There are some Hyundai diesels but they are all computer controlled and I do not know enough about that. The Hyundai 1493 CRDi diesel is a thumper!

headers · 6th July 2008, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

T
I am wondering if the Tata 3.0L Di Turbo currently used in the Sumo could fit in the Gypsy? Whatever short comings Tata may have, this is a fine engine, long life and reliable.

The bonnet can always be modded if the eng is too tall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Yeah, maybe. The front suspension could be strengthened. If it is only a difference of 100 kilos then it may not matter. I will look into it and see just how heavy that 3.0L is.

Am wondering what other options there are from Mahindra or whoever. Toyota is supreme but nobody knows their motors up here. Here it is Mahindra or Tata or Toyota D4D.

There are some Hyundai diesels but they are all computer controlled and I do not know enough about that. The Hyundai 1493 CRDi diesel is a thumper!

THe Tata 3.0 litre is too heavy even for a MM540. What we gain in torque we will loose in weight and its not worth the project is what some people say!

The 1493 3 cyl hyundai motor is a thumper and i actually thought of plonking the engine in a Gypsy!

khan_sultan · 7th July 2008, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

...
Sir, the stock bumper can take a winch. I've a friend who has done that! And you can cut the rear overhang too. Guess you know that I;ve done it.

In that case, I stand corrected

.

Headers, your 'rear overhang' mod is the reason why I have started thinking of it again. However, am yet to find someone in Bangalore for this. For sure I will be getting this done.

headers · 7th July 2008, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Headers, your 'rear overhang' mod is the reason why I have started thinking of it again.

Am glad, that i got you thinking of it again. There must be some guys around Bangalore to do the same, but one needs to spend time with him especially if it is his first time.

A simple solution is to bring on your vehicle this side of town. I'm sure my guy would do it for you!!

3rd July 2008, 10:28	#31
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	Spitfire, There is not much complexity in the SPOA for a Gypsy. That's what I have gathered after reading/researching a lot about SPOA for Samurai. In India people have not got it done hence not many examples of SPOA and not many mechanics who can do justice to it. In my opinion, the critical aspect is the ability of the mechanic to pull it off. I have full confidence in the parts that we would have to fabricate for the SPOA. The advantage that we have abroad is that the complete kit would be available off the shelf and here in India we will have to go to several places to get it done. This is what would be required for the SPOA: Front wraparound spring pads Rear wraparound spring pads 2- 7" longer front brake lines 1- 7" Rear brake line extension Front and rear driveshaft extensions Front and rear long travel shock mounting Front and rear HD Ubolt plates Front and rear custom Ubolts. Custom height Zlink steering linkage Also here are some visuals of some critical parts of SPOA. I am sure our mechanics are competent enough to pull this this off. However, having said that; I am yet to find a mechanic that is willing to take up this project for my Gypsy Have contacted Psycho for this. Let's see if he is willing to take this up. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images
	(1) Thanks

3rd July 2008, 10:57	#32
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	@Shahnawaz: Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. I have been doing research on my own too but i guess with what you have outlined above my search has become much easier. Actually i was also of the same opinion that SPOA for the Gypsy would not be too difficult. We will need to engineer this well. With these parts being the main load bearing components for the whole vehicle i was not too sure about getting them fabricated locally(Goa), Bangalore maybe a different scene. Has anyone you know tried to import these? There are a few available on ebay. Wonder why any garage will not want to do this mod. I have a garage(partly owned) back home. I can try this if i have the right parts available. Hoping Psycho agree Last edited by Spitfire : 3rd July 2008 at 10:58.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 11:05	#33
khan_sultan Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida/Bangalore Posts: 4,925 Thanked: 5,853 Times View My Garage	Spitfire, Man.. you have a garage and yet not going for SPOA it . If I had that luxury, I would have done it -- many times over. I have lots of reading material on SPOA for a Gypsy with detailed instructions etc for getting it done. I know that there are SPOA kits available from $500 onwards in US. The challenge is how to get these here. Let me know if you need the reading material and I will zip it and send it across to you by email.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 23:50	#34
Stalionjatt1161 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ludhiana Posts: 4 Thanked: 0 Times	Engine Well i know about the boat engines. We also get them in Doraha. I remember driving an Opel Astra with that diesel engine It ran very smoothly but the vibrations were too much. I have tried all the engines like the toyota 1800 cc, nissan, isuzu etc but they were not upto the mark. My Family has many Willy jeeps and My Chacha ji has an 1950 model Ford Willy First hand owner. It is a Left hand drive. SO cant be used on Highways. just for the Pind stuff. I like the Isuzu 2400cc engine. My uncle told me that it runs good and it can run an AC without a huff. My uncle went straight to Delhi for that Engine from Chandigarh. and brought it all the way back to Chandigarh.
	() Thanks

4th July 2008, 04:27	#35
Ignazio BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Turin-Italy Posts: 128 Thanked: 3 Times	contribution from Italy Hi have a look to this excellent product from Italy, </title> </head> <body> <script language="JavaScript">if (window != top) top.location.href = location.href; // End --></script> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="100%" bgcolor="#CC0000"> <tr> <td align="center" width="170" bgco Visit the full web site, it is at least useful to have an idea of the stuff they make. Ciao Ignazio
	() Thanks

4th July 2008, 14:19	#36
arun ravi.k Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: coimbatore Posts: 12 Thanked: Once	Hi Good God i am surprised to have so many worthy responses in such a short time. In fact i have zeroed in on a toyota 1N turbo and members ex670c and jyobeb are right. I am retaining the 4WD and i was intending to use the same gypsy gearbox. But the idea of finding a gypsy king gearbox with a fifth overdrive is very interesting and i am now up to it . Dear jyobeb do you have any idea if the gypsy king gearbox and the esteem gearbox are both the same or are they different? Also as an additional information Maruti Udyog Limited had actually tried giving a diesel option using the peugeot diesel engine they use in the Zen and Esteem diesel (309 gld engine) but dropped it for cost reasons. The Toyota 1NT generates slightly more power and torque than the peugeot. The reason i was considering the Peugeot is you get the spares easily. Thanks guys for your opinions and it has reassured me and i on the job and will let you all know in a months time with pictures. Thanks again for the enthusiastic help from all directions.
	() Thanks

6th July 2008, 07:55	#40
DirtyDan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dharamsala, H.P Posts: 2,075 Thanked: 1,565 Times	The only Toyota engine they know how to maintain up here is the Qualis-Innova D4D type. I am wondering if the Tata 3.0L Di Turbo currently used in the Sumo could fit in the Gypsy? Whatever short comings Tata may have, this is a fine engine, long life and reliable. The bonnet can always be modded if the eng is too tall.
	() Thanks