[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

I have heard this many times over and would like some more info here for my own knowledge and learning.

What are the advantages that we are looking at if we use JUST the baleno HEAD?

How much cost and what all would be required if the gypsy is already a 1.3 mpfi?

What about reliability? legality?

Khan Sahab,

These mods were done a lot to esteems and swifts, the block in identical in a 1.3 and a 1.6 Suzuki engine. If a gypsy is already MPFI you do not need a lot of sensors and the ECU, the 1.3 ecu can drive the 1.6 head as both are SOHC and the working is same just what differs is the over all compression, in this case its higher. I also heard there are maps available for the stock ecu which can be detuned to use normal petrol despite of increased compression(someone can confirm this).

About reliability, its bolt on. And dosent require any modifications. You can refer to sreejith's(mexxentric's) thread and see the techicalities(read fabrications) involved incase of a complete engine swap, which IMHO is going to be less reliable if not done at a competent place. You can further mod this setup to improve results, which is the best part. The engine numbers are embosed in the bottom half or the block, since you are retaining that bit, its going to perfectly leagal.


Pramod

[techn0l0gist]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

What are the advantages that we are looking at if we use JUST the baleno HEAD?

How much cost and what all would be required if the gypsy is already a 1.3 mpfi?

What about reliability? legality?

the baleno head itself on the 1.3L mpfi gypsy wouldn't do much difference as both are 16V and appear to be identical - not very sure as i'm not aware of the port sizes and other details (i believe the swift uses a baleno head or at least one that looks the same!. Also the baleno/swift heads have distributor-less ignitions and i don't think it will work with the gypsy ECU.

the baleno head swap onto the 1.3 L carb gypsy would make a drastic difference in performance - as the 1.3L carb version has a 8V head which is less efficient than the 16V head.

Reliability - depends on who does the swap and/or what parts one uses - I would avoid harnesses/sensors from the junkyard - since you are in bangalore - i'm sure there will be a person or two at least who'd know what they're doing about the legality - i don't see a problem as you're not changing the displacement (which is the only engine related thing mentioned in the RC book - at least mine - don't know what all they write in bangalore )

Hmm... cost - depends on the cost of the head - i've heard of complete heads with intake manifolds,injectors and sensors being sold for 5k - but i'm yet to come across such a deal , i'm too on the lookout for a 16v head for a good price .

[Amar82]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

So, do you mean that you are NOT using the webber? If you are not, then I know someone who is looking for a webber carb for his 1.3 Gypsy. Let me know if you wana sell it to a fellow gypsy owner?

Hi Khan Bhai,
No, i am not using the webber carb. I have the latest model that fits the stock air filter.Let me know if somebody is interested.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

You can buy a head, intake manifold and exhaust manifold with all the necessary wiring and ECU from a baleno and use your existing bottom. This way the engine would be legal and more powerful than a 1.3 mpfi. Since nowadays its easy to find totaled balenos as donors, the cost factor will also not be of big concern. In short its a complete win win choice.

Pramod

Hi Pramod,
I am not that technical. If i go with the specs that you mentioned, I have to physically monitor the process(not possible) and find the parts of baleno otherwise the charges will be astronomical.I am planning a 1.3 MPFI translpant first with FFE and K&N filter for now.

I am quoted 65K for the 1.3 MPFI engine transplant which is already way to high, Baleno will be even costlier and hard to source.

Originally Posted by bigman

Please ignore my ignorance, but does the Gypsy not use a divorced transfer case? If yes, then why limit yourself to Maruti engines, why not be a daredevil and give it some serious power (assuming the chassis etc can handle it).

Hey Satnam,
According to my priority list:

1)Reliability
2)Be able to be serviced at MASS not a Jugad.
3) Performance
So, i will try to go with stock as much as possible. But Yes, the gypsy's transfer case is divorced and if you are planning just for the city ridewe have lot more powerful options, but if you think of taking it to remote parts of himalaya's its better to keep it stock.

Originally Posted by techn0l0gist

the baleno head swap onto the 1.3 L carb gypsy would make a drastic difference in performance - as the 1.3L carb version has a 8V head which is less efficient than the 16V head.

Anybody tried this??? Looks like another option??

[MexXxentric]

Originally Posted by Amar82

I am quoted 65K for the 1.3 MPFI engine transplant

for a turn key project?

Originally Posted by Amar82

Baleno will be even costlier and hard to source.

ABSOLUTELY

Originally Posted by Amar82

According to my priority list:

1)Reliability
2)Be able to be serviced at MASS not a Jugad.
3) Performance
So, i will try to go with stock as much as possible.

That makes sense.

Originally Posted by techn0l0gist

i've heard of complete heads with intake manifolds,injectors and sensors being sold for 5k - but i'm yet to come across such a deal , i'm too on the lookout for a 16v head for a good price .

Thats music to many "head hunters" out here in t-bhp. When such an offer was there, how come you did not pick the same?

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Since nowadays its easy to find totaled balenos as donors, the cost factor will also not be of big concern.
Pramod

Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by MexXxentric

Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)

Dude i thought this was coming.

I am going to Delhi in march. I will get you whatever you want. I know a guy how buys totaled maruti cars.

Pramod

[techn0l0gist]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Thats music to many "head hunters" out here in t-bhp. When such an offer was there, how come you did not pick the same?
Pramod

I heard that from one scrap dealer - was from a totalled esteem. However last time i tried - no one was ready to sell just the head for a fair price , they insist you buy the whole engine

Originally Posted by MexXxentric

help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)

Buy one from a aftermarket spares shop - a reliable one would sell you for much less - don't go to the MGP dealer.

I managed to fix mine with some carb cleaner - maybe you could try that - unless you have really "broken" it into peices

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Anybody tried this??? Looks like another option??

there are a few esteems i know - but they're all twin carb setups - FE increases too along with power

[Amar82]

Attaching Few Pics of the GYpsy while installing Weber Carb and also Free wheeling Hubs have been installed.

[vinod_nookala]

Amar your Gypsy is one of the best make over i have seen! Happy Gypsying!

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by MexXxentric

Really?
Where?
help me to outsource Baleno's VSS.( i broke mine)

Recently i have seen a lot of junk balenos with akbar travels in mumbai.I guess if anyone wants an engine can catch hold of one from their workshop in andheri.

[Amar82]

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

Amar your Gypsy is one of the best make over i have seen! Happy Gypsying!

Thanks Vinod, I was almost ready to sell my Gypsy at one point(was frustrated with the pace of work being done) but then the hardwork and pain i have been through stopped me from selling it. The most difficult was registering army disposal in ludhiana.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Recently i have seen a lot of junk balenos with akbar travels in mumbai.I guess if anyone wants an engine can catch hold of one from their workshop in andheri.

Hi Rakesh,
I am going with stock gypsy 1.3 MPFI engine, baleno engine though more powerful will never beat the reliability of stock setup.

Thanks for the info.

Amar

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by Amar82

Hi Rakesh,
I am going with stock gypsy 1.3 MPFI engine, baleno engine though more powerful will never beat the reliability of stock setup.

Thanks for the info.

Amar

Yep thats one point to be noted..One query from my side,would the 1.6 make the gypsy heavier in the front?

[Amar82]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Yep thats one point to be noted..One query from my side,would the 1.6 make the gypsy heavier in the front?

I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by Amar82

I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar

If you ask me personally, spending extra 25K for those additional horses makes sence if you do offroading, for a daily drive the 1.3 carb king will do great, and trust me even in high altitudes, proofs are the number of breakdowns in the pre MPFI raid days. I am sure you cannot go to Leh during the winters when the air is extreamly lean, so as to your carb gypsy will have breathing problems. Now you need to ask your self a question, why do you need something that do you need that kind of power to do something a normal carb 1.3 is capable of doing? do you need a complete transplant or you just want something which is factory tested and proved to be a work horse.

Pramod

[harjeev]

Originally Posted by Amar82

I just inquired about the baleno 1.6L engine swap from Raj Kapoor and the break down is as follows:

1) Sourcing engine and parts 58K-65K.
2) Changing cooling system 10K.
3) Labour and wiring charges 15K.

About the reliabilty he told that it depends upon how well you do the job. Need a feedback from fellow Bhpians about should i go for 1.3L transplant or 1.6L (cost for 1.3L swap is 65K and 1.6L is 90K)


Amar

Hi Amar
As your Gypsy is with Mandeep you must have spoken to him too!!! What's his advise? I believe that he would give you a balanced and an unbiased suggestion.

Me personally would put my money on a stock 1.3 MPFI and spend the balance of 25k on a bigger better radiator, Air Intake, Free Flow Exhausts, headers, better plugs, performance clutch plates, etc etc. Sky is the limit. I am not saying that all this will come in 25k but atleast it's a start!

Just my novice advise, I am just learning the technical ropes, so please excuse me if i am wrong

[khan_sultan]

I would suggest that you stay Carb only and do NO transplant. Even a 1.3 mpfi transplant will NOT be as reliable as a factory fitted one.

A 1.3 Carb is a VERY capable machine and will serve ALL purposes of trail driving/hill driving/OTR's