[vnabhi]

This is a classic thread, and the way the cars have been chosen is really top notch. I agree to the later inclusions into the list, and also with the reasons given to reject some others.

[thermalpaste]

Originally Posted by GTO

When Baleno's start at 1.75 lakhs only, why buy an Esteem? The Baleno has way superior road manners, interior comfort and engine.

The Baleno has a sloppy gear-shift action, not to mention that the stock esteem would outperform the baleno from 0-100. I don't quite agree that the g16b is way better than the g13b. Especially the Euro-3 balenos are very sluggish in terms of throttle response. Yes, the Baleno has bags of torque and a stiffer setup but the esteem is way more reliable

[GTO]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

This is a classic thread, and the way the cars have been chosen is really top notch. I agree to the later inclusions into the list, and also with the reasons given to reject some others.

Thanks Vnabhi.

Originally Posted by thermalpaste

The Baleno has a sloppy gear-shift action, not to mention that the stock esteem would outperform the baleno from 0-100. I don't quite agree that the g16b is way better than the g13b. Especially the Euro-3 balenos are very sluggish in terms of throttle response. Yes, the Baleno has bags of torque and a stiffer setup but the esteem is way more reliable

The Esteem is marginally quicker in a 0 - 100. That's it. In all other parameters, be it braking (especially!), handling, high speed behaviour, interior comfort, the Baleno is miles ahead. Not surprising, the Baleno is a far more modern car compared to the Esteem.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by GTO

Not surprising, the Baleno is a far more modern car compared to the Esteem.

If I remember correctly, Esteem weighed less then a Matiz. This speaks something about the way it was constructed. Structurally Baleno belongs to a generation ahead of Esteem.

[GSMINC]

I guess we should add Hyundai Tuscon to the list, a very under-rated car, with it being a CBU & the 100+% duty levied on it making it uncompetetive price wise

[thermalpaste]

Originally Posted by Guna

If I remember correctly, Esteem weighed less then a Matiz. This speaks something about the way it was constructed. Structurally Baleno belongs to a generation ahead of Esteem.

The Baleno is based on a stretched Cultus (read maruti Esteem) platform.

Structurally a very few cars mentioned in this thread would meet offset crash requirements -- The Baleno, OHC, Zen, Lancer, Esteem were never structurally rigid.

The Swift is much heavier than the aforementioned cars from the late 80s / early 90s which just goes to show that newer cars have excellent torsional rigidity.

The newer cars are bulkier (albeit safer) and have this 'sluggishness' associated with them.

What I liked about the old cars :

The Lancer has a multi-link rear suspension and most sedans back then were independently sprung from the rear. It's very unlikely you would find a modern C segment car with an IRS setup.

To give you an example, let me compare the futuristic Civic with the OHC / lancer

The Civic has an awful rear suspension as compared to the good old lancer.

Older cars had thinner A pillars, they offered excellent visibility. I hate the A pillar on the Honda Civic. The Older Honda City is excellent all-round visibility.

The old City offers excellent steering feedback and the Civic's steering feels a bit dead and light.

To conclude, newer cars are safer, but are mostly boring. (This excludes the Skoda RS )

[Evolution_VIII]

Originally Posted by GTO

Mitsubishi Lancer


Prices we've seen : Rs. 1.25 - 2.75 lakhs
Availability : Good. Lancers sold respectably, and are easy to find in the used market

If someone is lucky enough to find the INVEX model, nothing like it. 120 horses with a rev happy engine and tip-tronic gearbox. Its very hard to find one though. It took me 3 and half months to find mine

[Evolution_VIII]

Originally Posted by GTO

Honda Accord V6

What you'll like:

• A jewel of a 3.0 liter 221 BHP 6 cylinder revv-happy engine. High on refinement too

Always wondered if we can plonk this engine in some small 2 door to have a great combinition of sporty drive + looks + power . In something like a Mazda Miata or a Toyota MR2 non turbo (the Turbo one already has a mighty heart - 3sgte)

[Axe77]

I think we should keep in mind that this thread is not just about VFM vehicles but "enthusiast" cars. The benchmark to qualify as an enthusiast vehicle should be kept at a reasonably high standard and therefore a little exclusive.

IMHO, I wouldn't rate cars such as the Tucson, Elantra etc. as enthusiast cars (even if they are admittedly underrated or VFM buys at the similar price point).

[khan75]

Originally Posted by GSMINC

I guess we should add Hyundai Tuscon to the list, a very under-rated car, with it being a CBU & the 100+% duty levied on it making it uncompetetive price wise

Err, the Tucson ain't no X5 or Cayenne. It is a good SUV but hardly an enthusiast's car of choice.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by GSMINC

I guess we should add Hyundai Tuscon to the list, a very under-rated car, with it being a CBU & the 100+% duty levied on it making it uncompetetive price wise

Have you driven this car? I've not even read anything about this much!

[rpmx1000]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Have you driven this car? I've not even read anything about this much!

I think it is a very over-rated car. It will (and has to) be judged by another factor called VFM which is almost zero for the Tucson - the price.Hyundai could have launched it just above the Scorpio/Safari and built the brand. SKD assembly would have helped them lower costs. The Grand Vitara - An awesome vehicle, I simply love it! is sitting right in this segment (price point wise) but does not get the numbers due to its petrol engine. In India it is almost expected that SUV's are diesel since running costs are given a lot more importance by us.That was the opportunity the Tucson missed. Similar to the Honda Jazz , it priced itself out of the market.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by thermalpaste

The Baleno is based on a stretched Cultus (read maruti Esteem) platform.

No kidding, guess you learn something new everyday. I was under the impression that the Baleno's platform was entirely new and independent of the Esteems.

which just goes to show that newer cars have excellent torsional rigidity.

The newer cars are bulkier (albeit safer) and have this 'sluggishness' associated with them.

So true. Lack of the "seat of the pants" feeling is an undesired by product of the increasing safety standards that are making cars heavier & heavier.

Originally Posted by Evolution_VIII

If someone is lucky enough to find the INVEX model, nothing like it. 120 horses with a rev happy engine and tip-tronic gearbox. Its very hard to find one though. It took me 3 and half months to find mine

Congrats, especially if you got a good deal. Me & Dippy quite enjoyed testing the Invex at the time of its launch. Nice auto box too.

Originally Posted by rpmx1000

It will (and has to) be judged by another factor called VFM which is almost zero for the Tucson - the price.

Especially in light of recent market developments, chief of which is the Fortuner, the Tucson is poor VFM. It was a competent SUV for its time but the game has moved on.

[vandan]

@ GTO- Just a thought, why would you go in for the civic at 6 when you can get a lancer and drop in a mivec at the same price!?

[suhaas307]

GTO!

We have completely forgotten about the classic Ford Escort 1.6 Zetec! 92 horses, 1.6 liter 16v (?). It flies despite the bulk it lugs around. And with the right modifications (read, Cossie ) It can beat most Indian cars hollow!

True, parts were extremely expensive, it was hard to maintain and run and guzzled fuel like a crazed fish but it is still an enthusiasts car. I wonder if there are any examples left. I don't see any around unfortunately!

I remember a certain gentleman agreed to feature his '95 MK-VI 3-door yellow Escort Cosworth in BS Motoring (Auto magazine) a long time ago. Boy did it look tasty!