[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Ajai Shukla's The Wire article clearly mentions the deal would not be done unless the Pannun's case reaches a logical conclusion. Since the popularity gained by Ajai Shukla for the Sino clashes/Rafale, the gentleman has been a constant pain for many. Perspectives don't change the truth.

Keeping Ajai shukla aside, we need to understand that the Pannu guy is a expendable asset for Americans. He is just a loud mouth and will be allowed till he serves the interests of both concerned countries.

USA / Lockheed are no fools that they will allow a 4 billion USD deal to fell through just as is because "Pannu" feels he had hitman on his tail.

Rest assured, nobody knows the truth than the people involved. We on forums can only speculate & guess with only diff between us and Ajai being that he has a platform & necessary protection to Sell "true lies". There is a reason that why famed "Chandigarh lobby" is salty with current govt.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you this is a relief.

Sir,

I completely understand the relief as i too think on same lines as yours. we simply cannot trust them with big ticket and critical military hardware. You never know which end user agreement clause with come in between at last minute leaving you high and dry in a critical situation. With Russia on decline, only option we have is to be self reliant in what ever we need.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

I'd wait till I can read the smoke from one of the heavy hitting Senate Committees like the Foreign Relations Committee for eg. If one of those weighs in to be the one to block this - then it's a pickle.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

One simply will never know. Could it be that there were rumblings in the US Congress/Senate and Indian counter intelligence planted this article to evoke a response from the Americans??

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

This is an excerpt from Reuters dsted 1st Feb, 2024.

Based on the Reuters article, it's not difficult to piece together what actually happened - taking in points from what has already been discussed here. There had indeed been a "hold" by Senator Ben Cardin, a Democrat who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (so, a heavyweight) because of the Pannun issue. I'm assuming as Narayan sir pointed out, the Indian establishment probably planted this story by either contacting 'The Wire' as an anonymous source or maybe even in cahoots with them, despite their general anti-establishment stance. The Biden admin probably freaked out when the news got out and forced the deal through in an unprecedented time of less than 24 hours, probably using sticks or carrots for the Senator to back out. It's politics, we had the same when we had coalition governments - remember the US nuclear deal?

The Americans know they are on thin ice when it comes to Indian public opinion and they just cannot risk the Indian public opinion tanking - India is about to be (or already is) the number 3 superpower and having India by their side is what will help them win another cold war. India is certainly not another Turkey (though we seem to be headed there), at least not yet. The Chinese for all their brilliance have been enormously short-sighted, they could've led an anti-Western bloc with India and most of the developing Asian & Latin American world at its side. But their 'Imperial China' attitude has forced their neighbors into the arms of the US - even Vietnam which is another communist country! The Philippines had its own moment under its previous president when it tried to switch to the Chinese side but that didn't end the Chinese bullying which forced them closer to the US again.

We talk about the follies of democracies like the US and India but rarely about the silly decisions of authoritarian countries like China that have alienated each and every one of its neighbors who would've sided with China had they been treated with respect (including India). The Chinese are behaving like the Americans during the Cold War where their mistreatment of developing countries forced them into the arms of the Soviet Union.

Seems like forever but there was a time when BRICS was supposed to be the next G7 but from the original BRICS countries, the only one still growing is India. It's time we come out of the NAM "we'll always be the brown/black folk" mindset, the world is more equal than it has ever been in human history.

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

Defense Security Cooperation Agency


Attachment 2567847

Coming back to the drone, those are some pretty high-end equipment - we are certainly not getting a barebones version. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable (than me) could talk about the specifics on whats been offered.

[siren373]

I'd recommend not encouraging political posts that can polarize the audience on this platform. There are several nuances around the alleged murder of a US citizen by the state powers. I can't comment who is in the right, but have seen how this has divided the audience on platforms like Reddit.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

we are certainly not getting a barebones version. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable (than me) could talk about the specifics on whats been offered.

Certainly, We are not getting bare bones version. Having said that, Specifics would never be in public domains. Anyone claiming to be knowing them is just "bluffing"

[Gaur]

Originally Posted by srh

I guess there is a reason Shukla did not move the hierarchy and ended his career as a Colonel.

This Chandigarh lobby Shukla guy is really funny, got an egg on his face in less then 24hrs, i doubt if he even had a proper field experience, most probably a paper pusher i feel.
But brave for him to call himself a strategic affairs expert, never knew a colonel knows so much about army/strategic affairs.

And less said the better about "The Wire" which believed in a mythical application called "Tek Fog" and thought that Mr Malviya had special privilege's to delete Instagram posts.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Coming back to the drone, those are some pretty high-end equipment - we are certainly not getting a barebones version. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable (than me) could talk about the specifics on whats been offered.

Oh. Trust me, the sensor package we are getting with the 9Bs is BETTER & BEYOND top notch. Even going by what is available on public domain, our own tech establishments are atleast 5 years away from producing a matching package. There is a very valid reason as to why this government, despite the PM's beyond whole-hearted backing of indigenous equipment (the Tejas sortie anyone...), is spending so much political & economic capital on this deal. The capability boost this will provide to our Armed Forces (especially the Navy) is something which has been witnessed by the powers that be through the 2 free drones we have been operating for a couple of years now. I will try to make a detailed post specifically on the sensor package we are getting this weekend.

[srh]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

The guess is not founded in reason. Most officers (approx 50% or more) retire at Lt Col. Selection Grade ranks start from Col while a Lt Col can also become a Col through Time Scale. The next promotion i.e. Brigadier is purely Selection Grade. Not reaching Col or Brigadier doesn't mean the officer did not have it in him. There are a lot of factors. Age and qualifying selection being two.
Shukla took voluntary retirement from the rank of Col.

Sure. There are bad apples everywhere.
Nevertheless, he has been a thorough war correspondent, editor, journalist and TV news anchor for over 2 decades now. Working for news organisations such as DD News, NDTV, South China Morning Post, Business Standard, Al Jazeera, The Wire, The New York Times, Guardian, BBC, The Hindu Businessline and more.

I think I will exit this discussion with a couple of final comments from my side:
1. I have read enough content penned/ aired by Shukla to discern how objective & truthful he can be. I don’t need to refer to his ‘pedigree’ - it carries no weight with me.
2. I am fairly aware of what voluntary retirement at Lt. Col/ Col grade means viz. Not wanting to be stuck in the same grade for another 15-18 years because one couldn’t make the selection grade.

[V.Narayan]

Gentlemen,

The MQ-9B is on, the deal is safe, my thanks to all members who contributed valuably to updated and correct information. Let's not get drawn into discussing a media portal or a journalist. The good thing about this thread is that it has stayed focused on naval aviation & carriers with some amazing insights and serves as a rich repository of information. Let us keep it that way. Thank you for your support and co-operation.

V.Narayan

[RunGaDa]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

US Blocks $3-Billion Drone Sale to India Until ‘Meaningful Investigation’ of Pannun Assassination Conspiracy

When reading from wire portal one needs not a pinch but heaps of salt. The unfortunate part of this media group is they are extremely steadfast in their “agenda driven” reporting and give a damn for any truth.
Also they are pathetically one sided. I say for a change try some balanced articles, but they won’t as they see to have brain washed article writers.

[styx71]

The gamesmanship around US drone sale to India

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/the.../107368834.cms

So when a report — vaguely attributed to a policy maker — surfaced earlier this week that US lawmakers had put a hold on delivery of 31 MQ-9A Sea Guardian and Sky Guardian drones to India until New Delhi carries out a “meaningful investigation” into the alleged plot of kill Khalistani separatist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, the search for veracity of the report centered not just on the perpetrators of the leak and its accuracy, but also the motive.

On Thursday, the State Department implicitly rejected the idea that the US has held back the delivery, while acknowledging that there were ongoing consultations with lawmakers on the matter. A few hours later, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), an agency within the Department of Defense that promotes military-to-military contacts and handles transfer of defense materiel, training and services to allies and partners, delivered the required certification notifying Congress of the possible sale, effectively killing the story of the "hold" within 24 hours.

[Fuldagap]

Here's a small compilation on the much discussed MQ-9B. I have focussed on the two variants, SkyGuardian (for air force) and SeaGuardian (for navy). There's a 3rd one STOL too. It could be a very elaborate write up but have tried to keep it at a minimum.

With the ongoing news articles, there is some confusion over the nomenclature of the drone, with even the US government using different names — MQ-9, MQ-9A and MQ-9B — apparently interchangeably.

The data for the writeup has been taken from US Airforce, GAAS, Wikipedia and other few websites. There is some visible difference even on the technical specs on all three major sources. I took the one which looked the best.

Introduction:

The MQ-9B, developed by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, is a sophisticated UAV designed for long-endurance missions. It belongs to the family of Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS). The General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper, also known as Predator B operates remotely or autonomously. The MQ-9, categorised as a Remotely Piloted Vehicle/Aircraft (RPV/RPA) by the USAF, shares ground control systems with the MQ-1 Predator (first flight July, 1994) but is larger and more capable.

Distinguished by a 950 horsepower turboprop engine, the Reaper surpasses the MQ-1's capabilities, carrying a 15-fold increase in ordnance payload and cruising at about three times the speed. It boasts a cruising speed of 280–310 km/h. The Ground Control Station (GCS) manages and monitors the aircraft, including weapon deployment. The MQ-9 pioneered the long-endurance, high-altitude surveillance role, evolving from intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance to an attack UAV.

The USAF operates over 300 MQ-9 Reapers, with ongoing retrofitting for improved performance in high-end combat situations. The projected end of service life for the fleet is 2035. The MQ-9A evolved into the MQ-9B, known as SkyGuardian or SeaGuardian based on mission and payload specifications.

Development:

The inaugural flight of the General Atomics "Predator B-001," a proof-of-concept aircraft, happened on 2 February 2001. Designed by Abraham Karem, the Predator's B-001 variant featured an AlliedSignal Garrett TPE331-10T turboprop engine generating 950 horsepower. Its airframe, based on the standard Predator design, had an extended fuselage and wings, increasing the length from 15 m to 20 m. With a speed of 410 km, it could carry a payload of 340 kg up to an altitude of 15,000 m and had an endurance of 30 hours.

General Atomics further developed the design in two directions. The first, "Predator B-002," featured a Williams FJ44-2A turbofan engine with 10.2 kilonewtons thrust. It had a payload capacity of 215 kg, a ceiling of 18,000 m and an endurance of 12 hours. The prototypes, B-001 and B-002, are now retired to the USAF museum at Wright-Patterson AFB.

The second design, known as the "Altair," led to the development of the "Predator B-003." This variant featured a new airframe with a 26 m wingspan and a takeoff weight of approximately 3,200 kg. Powered by a TPE-331-10YGD turboprop, it boasted a payload capacity of 1,400 kg, a maximum ceiling of 16,000 m and an endurance of 36 hours.

A pair of Predator Bs (001 and 002) were delivered in 2002. Initially referred to as "Predator B," the aircraft was later renamed "Reaper" by the USAF. The goal was to enhance the "deadly persistence" capability, enabling continuous operation over a combat area, complementing piloted attack aircraft with the ability to wait for a target day and night. This approach provided a cost-effective solution for prolonged operation and target engagement.

How Does it Operate:

Crews operating the MQ-9 Reaper, including pilots and sensor operators have the capability to track targets and surveil landscapes using a variety of sensors, including a thermographic camera. The integrated camera on board can reportedly discern a licence plate from a distance of 3.2 km. Commands from operators take approximately 1.2 seconds to reach the drone through a satellite link.
A typical MQ-9 system consists of multiple aircraft, ground control station, communications equipment, maintenance spares, and personnel. A military flight crew includes a pilot, sensor operator, and Mission Intelligence Coordinator.

Design:

The aircraft is powered by a 950 horsepower turboprop engine, with a maximum speed of about 480 km/h. Featuring a wingspan of 20 m and a maximum payload capacity of 1,700 kg, the MQ-9 is equipped to carry various munitions, including Hellfire missiles and 230 kg laser-guided bomb units. During Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions, its endurance extends to 30 hours, which reduces to 23 hours when carrying a full weapons load. The Reaper boasts an unconfirmed range of 1,850 km and operates at an altitude 7,600 m, making it particularly effective for extended loitering operations, serving both surveillance and ground troop support purposes.

The Raytheon AN/AAS-52 multi-spectral targeting sensor suite on the MQ-9 incorporates color/monochrome daylight TV, infrared, and image-intensified TV with a laser rangefinder/laser designator for target designation in laser-guided munitions. Additionally, the aircraft features the Lynx Multi-mode Radar with synthetic aperture radar (SAR) operating in spotlight and strip modes, along with ground moving target indication (GMTI) incorporating Dismount Moving Target Indicator (DMTI) and Maritime Wide-Area Search (MWAS) capabilities.

The Reaper can serve as a wide-area surveillance sensor system, expanding coverage to 100 km², achieving initial operating capability (IOC) in early 2014. Integrated with the surveillance system are 368 cameras, each capable of capturing five million pixels, generating an image of approximately 1.8 billion pixels. Video is recorded at 12 frames per second, resulting in several terabytes of data per minute.

In January 2012, General Atomics introduced a new trailing arm design for the Reaper's main landing gear, leading to benefits such as a gross takeoff weight of 5,300 kg, a maintenance-free shock absorber eliminating the need for nitrogen pressurisation, a fully rejected takeoff brake system, and provisions for automatic takeoff and landing capability, along with Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) field upgrades. In April 2012, potential upgrades for USAF Reapers were disclosed, including two extra 380 L fuel pods under the wings to extend endurance to 37 hours. The wingspan can also be increased to 27 m, boosting endurance to 42 hours.

The aircraft is equipped with software for automatic threat detection and simultaneous tracking of 12 moving targets. It also has the capability to "super ripple"-fire missiles within 0.32 seconds of each other. On 25 February 2016, General Atomics announced a successful test flight of the new Predator-B/ER version, featuring an extended wingspan of 24 m for increased endurance of 40 hours. Notable improvements include short-field takeoff and landing performance, spoilers on the wings for precision automatic landings, and provisions on the wings for leading-edge de-ice and integrated low- and high-band RF antennas.

There have been numerous reports over the past decade or so of MQ-9 Reapers colliding with Russian Su-27s and other fighter aircrafts while getting themselves damaged and sometimes inflicting damage.

Known Users of MQ-9B:

1. France
2. India
3. Italy
4. Japan
5. Netherlands
6. Poland
7. Spain
8. USA
9. United Kingdom

Variants of MQ-9B:

1. MQ-9B SkyGuardian
2. MQ-9B SeaGuardian
3. MQ-9B STOL (Short Take Off and Landing)

Specifications MQ-9B:

About MQ-9B (SkyGuardian)

MQ-9B SkyGuardian is engineered for over-the-horizon flights via satellite and can operate continuously for up to 40+ hours in diverse weather conditions. It ensures secure integration into civil airspace, allowing joint forces and civil authorities to furnish real-time situational awareness worldwide, day or night. It is equipped with the groundbreaking Lynx® Multi-mode Radar, an advanced electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) sensor, and automatic takeoff and landing capability, featuring an extended wingspan of 24 m.

General characteristics of MQ-9B SkyGuardian

About MQ-9B (SeaGuardian)

MQ-9B SeaGuardian represents the maritime-focused counterpart to the SkyGuardian, customized with "bolt-on/bolt-off" maritime sensors. SeaGuardian is engineered for over-the-horizon flights via satellite, providing over 30 hours of endurance (configuration-dependent) in diverse weather conditions. It also ensures safe integration into civil airspace, enabling joint forces and civil authorities to furnish real-time situational awareness across the maritime domain, day or night.

It seamlessly incorporates a centerline wide-area maritime radar, an automatic identification system (AIS), electronic support measures, and a self-contained anti-submarine warfare (ASW) mission kit. SeaGuardian not only integrates the most advanced maritime intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) capabilities but also holds the distinction of being the first RPAS in its class to enable real-time search and patrol activities both above and below the ocean's surface.

Features (SeaGuardian)

SkyGuardian vs SeaGuardian

The MQ-9B SkyGuardian stands out as the most versatile remotely piloted aircraft in its class currently in operation worldwide – that is, until it undergoes modifications for missions over the ocean, where it assumes a different identity: the MQ-9B SeaGuardian.

The starting point for this dual-capable aircraft is the MQ-9B SkyGuardian, the latest and most advanced member of an unmanned aircraft series developed by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc., headquartered in San Diego. With over 6 million operational hours, much of it in combat, this family of unmanned aerial vehicles features a highly sensitive electro-optical infrared sensor ball and the Lynx multi-mission radar from GA-ASI.

The SkyGuardian can operate in a "clean" configuration, utilizing only its standard sensors and onboard equipment, allowing it to stay airborne for over a day. Alternatively, it can accommodate a variety of advanced payloads, enhancing its capabilities for sensing, communication, and other operations. This includes the capability to launch smaller unmanned aerial systems like GA-ASI’s Sparrowhawk, capable of taking off and returning mid-flight to the primary SkyGuardian aircraft.

These additional payloads may encompass weaponry, ranging from air-to-ground missiles and bombs to air-to-air missiles, along with electronic systems designed to degrade an adversary’s anti-air systems.

When equipped with specialized payloads, the SkyGuardian transforms into the SeaGuardian, ready to operate over the ocean. The SeaGuardian employs its onboard sensors for air and surface reconnaissance, complemented by a dedicated maritime surface search radar. It is also equipped to tap into the nautical Automatic Identification System, used by ships to broadcast crucial details such as their names, types, origins, destinations, and more.

In cases where a ship disables its AIS or when authorities controlling the SeaGuardian need a closer inspection, the aircraft can read the vessel's name from its stern, ascertain its actual type or configuration, and independently gather other relevant details.

The SeaGuardian's capabilities extend below the surface as well. Outfitted with up to 80 G-size sonobuoys, it can initiate or participate in anti-submarine operations alongside traditional naval units like vessels, shipboard helicopters, or crewed patrol aircraft.

In essence, a SeaGuardian is interchangeable with a SkyGuardian, both being variants of the MQ-9B.

[SmartCat]

Moderator Note:

Gents, posts about "The Wire" is slowly moving into the realm of politics. Henceforth, any post referring to the publication's political leanings or merits of Pannu case will be deleted. Please keep 'strictly no discussion on politics or religion' rule in mind before commenting.

[SmartCat]

Splitting BHPian Fuldagap's post into a new post:

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Also carrying forward from previous posts, The Wire's Ajai Shukla posted another article on the unblocking of the deal. It is quite an elaborate article on what happened.

https://thewire.in/diplomacy/us-dron...nun-plot-probe

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Here's a small compilation on the much discussed MQ-9B. I have focussed on the two variants, SkyGuardian (for air force) and SeaGuardian (for navy). There's a 3rd one STOL too. It could be a very elaborate write up but have tried to keep it at a minimum.

Thank you @Fuldagap for this excellent treatsie. This sort of quality post full of knowledge and updates is the essence of this thread {and our other defence related threads too}. I was a bit bothered with the dysfunctional turn it took over the last several posts with less value add posts on people's premature announcements of their opinions on news sites and journalists. Now we know where there was smoke there was fire too. Thanks to you @Fuldagap we are back on track.

Folks let's keep it this way.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Moderator Note:

Gents, posts about "The Wire" is slowly moving into the realm of politics. Henceforth, any post referring to the publication's political leanings or merits of Pannu case will be deleted. Please keep 'strictly no discussion on politics or religion' rule in mind before commenting.

Thank you SmartCat.

Food for thought - how easy or difficult would it be to shoot down a drone of this size. What would its radar signature be like. That aft mounted pusher prop must be having a significant signature. In a peace time operation or a quasi war time operation against non-state actors I suspect drones are incredibly useful to keep the enemy's heads down for extended periods. More and more of our actual operations have become wars of attrition short of a full war but equally challenging often more so.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Food for thought - how easy or difficult would it be to shoot down a drone of this size. What would its radar signature be like. That aft mounted pusher prop must be having a significant signature. In a peace time operation or a quasi war time operation against non-state actors I suspect drones are incredibly useful to keep the enemy's heads down for extended periods. More and more of our actual operations have become wars of attrition short of a full war but equally challenging often more so.

1) These birds are to be flown in uncontested airspace during land missions.

During 2020 Galwan conflict, Indian Navy's Boeing P-8i kept an eye on Chinese troop movements from a safe distance. Encounters between Russian Su-27 and US MQ-9 over the Black Sea was on international waters.

2) During sea missions, MQ-9 can fly into contested airspace, but the range of their sensors & relatively small size means the enemy ship is likely to be detected first. Unless it is one of those stealth frigates or destroyers.

3) Since submarines cannot fire anti-aircraft missiles, MQ-9 does not need any protection during anti-submarine warfare missions.