[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

This deal has always been a poisoned chalice, it was almost canceled during the initial days of the Russia-Ukraine war when the West really forced India to pick a side.

Only goes to show how much of a risk we are at with US where arms purchases go. We should have gone towards France in the 1980s when they were sending us feelers.

The Chinese have a vested interest in maintaining a hostile posture with India. If anything, India's relations with China is worse than what the latter has with the West.

Very true. We can trust the Chinese far far less than we can trust the West.

Originally Posted by ads11

I'd wait and see how this plays out. If this is indeed being held up on the Hill, I'd wait till I can read the smoke from one of the heavy hitting Senate Committees like the Foreign Relations Committee for eg. If one of those weighs in to be the one to block this - then it's a pickle. If it's just some working group of junior congressmen and women, then maybe it's just some attention seeking behaviour during primary season when they're bound to be ignored more or less.

That said, the reports claim that the information comes from 'anonymous sources' and the congress hasn't actually been formally notified yet if I understand correctly. So, the 'hold up' could pretty much mean the opinions of a handful of congressmen/women which shouldn't really have a significant effect.

This is quite likely. Unlike India or France in the USA the different arms go off in their chosen direction.

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Conflicting report from Financial Times couple of hours ago:
Defence Ministry set to receive LoA for 31 MQ-9 drones from US

This could be a defensive crisis management by us.

[dragracer567]

The is what the White House has to say on the matter.

[dragracer567]

More news coming out that the US Congress has cleared the 'tiered review' for the sale of the 31 MQ9B drone sale to India and official Congressional notification will be submitted within 24 hours. If I understand correctly, 'tiered review' means an informal notification of between 20-40 days (how can an informal notification be cleared?) before the official notification.

Again, as Narayan sir pointed out, could be a defensive crisis management from our part or perhaps even from the manufacturer - this is probably the biggest order for GA outside the US.

But the fact that the defense sales can be stopped at a whim is really concerning though and I think future acquisitions from the US will be throttled unless there is an absolute necessity (the Germans are worse, which brings into question their G-2-G offer for the submarine deal). These doubts, even if planted have played a good job planting doubts on American credibility as a partner (not just us, the Europeans are having these doubts as well with the elections down the corner) - perhaps India should work more with the other two partners of the Quad - Japan and Australia to mitigate the China factor.

[dragracer567]

And the deal is approved by the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency for $3.99 billion.

Seems like the US is really working overtime to get this approved to contain the fallout from that article.

[sierrabravo98]

A couple of thoughts on this whole MQ-9B saga:

1.) Anyone who trusts The Wire or Col. Ajai Shukla to deliver the correct facts is either naive or worse.

2.) The Americans have never been a trustworthy partner. The push and pull between the State Department and the Pentagon over approach towards India is well known in policy circles. Given this, I don't know what Indian policymakers had in mind when they coupled the future of the entire Indian fighter jet programme(s) (Mk-1A/Mk2/TEDBF/AMCA) to American propulsion (GE-F404/F414). These are not the actions of a serious country (which I have accepted by now).

3.) Junking the Tapas project is not something a serious country would have done. Even if it did not meet the Endurance/Altitude parameters set by the GSQR, it came quite close (within a couple of hours and couple thousand feet). It is said that the Indian Navy is still interested in the Tapas. Hope there is some light at the end of that tunnel.

[SmartCat]

This MQ-9B deal is equally important to USA too. Once Indian Navy starts operating these birds, the feed can be accessed realtime by all QUAD partners. That's what they mean by 'interoperability'. Indian Navy operating these drones will greatly increase the situational awareness of United States in the Indian Ocean region.

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

1.) Anyone who trusts The Wire or Col. Ajai Shukla to deliver the correct facts is either naive or worse.

[.sushilkumar]

IMO, this false flag ops from wire even forced US deptt of defence to issue a press release

Defense Security Cooperation Agency

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

IMO, this false flag ops from wire even forced US deptt of defence to issue a press release

Defense Security Cooperation Agency


Attachment 2567847

Thank you this is a relief. Not only these drones but also our P-8I programme, torpedoes and Harpoons that go with the P-8I, the C-17, Apache, CH-47 etc would all suffer if Indo-US relations nose dived. This does not mean we need to be less wary of the Americans but with Uncle Xi we do not have many choices. Who knows as the influence of the Indian diaspora increases in USA and the relative sizes and heft of our respective economies changes our relations might just become more trusting.....or may be worsen!

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

A couple of thoughts on this whole MQ-9B saga:

1.) Anyone who trusts The Wire or Col. Ajai Shukla to deliver the correct facts is either naive or worse.

One simply will never know. Could it be that there were rumblings in the US Congress/Senate and Indian counter intelligence planted this article to evoke a response from the Americans??

[autobahnjpr]

This is a F-A-K-E news by the wire. The deal has been cleared.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-c...illion-4975506

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

US Blocks $3-Billion Drone Sale to India Until ‘Meaningful Investigation’ of Pannun Assassination Conspiracy

[DasAuto1985]

Someone has to tell the journalists at wire that their wishlist and actual facts are two different things and all the bad that they want for this country cannot be reported as news. Its a crime that reporters can just get away saying " anonymous sources"

[seawolf]

US State Department notifies Congress of approval for the sa ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...campaign=cppst

[Strider24]

I think US Senate has pulled a prank on 'The Wire' this time.



Some US Senator gave the confidential information to the wire reporter and wire did exactly it always does- Embarrass itself.

[Fuldagap]

This is an excerpt from Reuters dsted 1st Feb, 2024.

Thursday's approval by the State Department does not mean the deal is a sure thing, but demonstrates progress as the U.S. continues a campaign to coax India away from buying Russian military equipment.
The State Department nod signals that the deal likely has cleared one stumbling block, approval by leaders of U.S. congressional committees.

Ajai Shukla's The Wire article clearly mentions the deal would not be done unless the Pannun's case reaches a logical conclusion. Since the popularity gained by Ajai Shukla for the Sino clashes/Rafale, the gentleman has been a constant pain for many. Perspectives don't change the truth.

Also what goes on behind the curtains regarding such deals or any security concern for that matter never breaks out clearly through news articles. I'd hold horses before believing/not believing any media article be it critical of the regime or pro regime.

Lamenting an ex Col is a trivial thing during times when people don't shy away lamenting even the Shankrayacharyas on another topic so as to go along with a set narrative spread through controlled media/Whatsapp.


Reuter's Link

[srh]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Lamenting an ex Col is a trivial thing during times when people don't shy away lamenting even the Shankrayacharyas on another topic so as to go along with a set narrative spread through controlled media/Whatsapp.


Reuter's Link

Shukla (& The Wire) are serial fake news peddlers. So this shouldn't surprise anyone. I guess there is a reason Shukla did not move the hierarchy and ended his career as a Colonel.

Being a ex Colonel doesn't make him a holy cow. We have had ketchup Colonels, Adarsh Generals and their ilk who have amply demonstrated honorable behavior.

All the equipment deals will go through. The US understands that otherwise the purchase of equipment from Russia won't go down. That certainly isn't something they would want. Anyways we are diversifying - making some things in India and buying some from France/ Israel. Anyways, its unlikely that a couple of decades down the line, we would be importing equipment in large quantities. Most of it will be Indian made - either our own tech or licence manufactured

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by srh

Shukla (& The Wire) are serial fake news peddlers. So this shouldn't surprise anyone.

The insinuation is not surprising at all sir.

I guess there is a reason Shukla did not move the hierarchy and ended his career as a Colonel.

The guess is not founded in reason. Most officers (approx 50% or more) retire at Lt Col. Selection Grade ranks start from Col while a Lt Col can also become a Col through Time Scale. The next promotion i.e. Brigadier is purely Selection Grade. Not reaching Col or Brigadier doesn't mean the officer did not have it in him. There are a lot of factors. Age and qualifying selection being two.
Shukla took voluntary retirement from the rank of Col.

Being a ex Colonel doesn't make him a holy cow. We have had ketchup Colonels, Adarsh Generals and their ilk who have amply demonstrated honorable behavior.

Sure. There are bad apples everywhere.
Nevertheless, he has been a thorough war correspondent, editor, journalist and TV news anchor for over 2 decades now. Working for news organisations such as DD News, NDTV, South China Morning Post, Business Standard, Al Jazeera, The Wire, The New York Times, Guardian, BBC, The Hindu Businessline and more.

Here's a brief about his former career:

Before taking up journalism, Ajai served in the military, in a combat arm, for over two decades before opting for voluntary retirement at the rank of colonel. His last assignment was in command of one of India’s most storied tank regiments, Hodson’s Horse. During his military career from 1979-2001, Ajai served on India’s conflicted borders with China and Pakistan, including in the states of Jammu & Kashmir, Nagaland, Manipur, Arunachal Pradesh, Punjab and Rajasthan. He also served for a year with the United Nations Peacekeeping Mission in Mozambique.


Ajai Shukla did his schooling in The Lawrence School, Sanawar near Shimla, in north India. He did his military training in the National Defence Academy, Khadakvasla (55th Course, 1976-1978) and the Indian Military Academy, Dehradun (65 th Course, 1979), from where he was commissioned as an officer into the armoured corps. He did his graduation from the Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi and has post-graduate degrees from Madras University and the Department of War Studies, King’s College, London.

Read More..

All the equipment deals will go through. The US understands that otherwise the purchase of equipment from Russia won't go down. That certainly isn't something they would want. Anyways we are diversifying - making some things in India and buying some from France/ Israel. Anyways, its unlikely that a couple of decades down the line, we would be importing equipment in large quantities. Most of it will be Indian made - either our own tech or licence manufactured

That's an opinion sir and you have every right to voice it. As the Congress has been 'notified' of the deal, I too hope the deal goes through soon.

Here is another excerpt from the BBC, the article updated 3 hours back or so:

The US State Department has approved the potential sale of 31 armed drones, missiles and other equipment to India for nearly $4bn (£3.14bn).
The MQ-9B Predator drones deal had been announced during PM Narendra Modi's visit to US in June 2023.
In December, it was put on hold by a Senate committee pending investigation into an alleged Indian assassination plot on US soil.
According to Reuters news agency, Senator Ben Cardin said he had ended his "hold" on the agreement for the deal after the US government agreed to fully investigate the assassination plot.
The deal will now be confirmed after approval from the US Congress.

Link

I also opine that the current brouhaha about the likes of Pannun case would die down once the elections are over here.