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Originally Posted by dragracer567

Regarding the elevator question, it seems that both the F/A-18 (after folded wings) as well as the Rafale will fit only in an angle, this is contrary to earlier reports that the F/A-18 will fit.

Forgive me if this is a silly question but if the elevators themselves were too narrow to fit the Rafale M and it's wingspan, and required the Super Hornet to fold its wings in, wouldn't the opening to the hangar be more or less as narrow? In that case, unless the jets can crab walk backwards at an oblique angle onto the elevator, aren't we in the same predicament? My worry is if getting it onto the tiny elevators requires some nifty parking on solid ground, how on earth is it meant to be practical at sea, let alone rough seas?

Do we have the dimensions for the hangar openings?

Another nugget seems to be that the Defense ministry is looking at additional orders for the Air Force to bring the overall cost down (and avoid an Apache like situation with the Army/Air Force).

Sensible course of action - would be bone headed to not do so. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.

[saikarthik]

There is a buzz in social media that Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard together planning to procure 15(9+6) C295 MPA (Maritime Patrol Aircraft) and add DRDO developed sensors to supplement the P8-Is. This speculated decision is owing to the budgetary constraints that's stalling the additional P8-Is. Though theoretically C295 MPA could carry most of the sensors that the P8 can, but has severe disadvantage over payload and range along with the strike capabilities for ASW or anti-ship role.

Could this mean end of the additional order for the P8s?

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by saikarthik

There is a buzz in social media that Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard together planning to procure 15(9+6) C295 MPA (Maritime Patrol Aircraft) and add DRDO developed sensors to supplement the P8-Is. This speculated decision is owing to the budgetary constraints that's stalling the additional P8-Is. Though theoretically C295 MPA could carry most of the sensors that the P8 can, but has severe disadvantage over payload and range along with the strike capabilities for ASW or anti-ship role.

Could this mean end of the additional order for the P8s?

The news came concurrently, so likely that both programs are going ahead. The C295 MPA program is still a couple of years down the line given that the first Indian-made C295s won't be out by 2025 or so and the MPAs will probably take more time. Also, the P8 and the MPA have generally been separate programs with the latter not really meant for ASW activity.

Interestingly, I heard some chatter on twitter (how true is anybody's guess) that Indian ASW assets were deployed to track an SSN from a country allied to India. We know of only one SSN that's been publically deployed in the Indian Ocean right now. Pretty ironic if P8is and MQ-9s were used to track American SSNs, its indicative of India's awkward geopolitical positioning right now.

[dragracer567]

This is huge if true!

Regarding the MQ-9B Predator high-end HALE drones that the Indian Armed Forced are planning to acquire, it seems that the Americans have agreed to assemble the drones in India! According to the news article, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral R Hari Kumar mentioned that atleast 60% of the drones to be acquired will be assembled in India. That means 18 of the 30 drones planned for all the three services will be assembled locally. I suppose this would also include some degree of Transfer of Technology (ToT) as well.

I think India would be the first country to assemble the Predator drone or any armed American drone for that matter outside the US. Drone technology is high-end stuff, especially HALE which is the best of them all, it's rare countries agree to sell these let alone allow allies to assemble them! So, this is a testament to just how badly the Americans want us on their side I suppose. This is also important for India since we are falling behind on the UAV race, especially bigger armed ones. Also, a solace for the US military-industrial complex since they most likely will lose the F/A-18 contract. But it is really difficult to fathom that US-India relations have reached this stage in such a short time!

Another snipbit from the armed, the two leased MQ-9B drones leased by the Navy have done 10,000 hours in 2 years. For comparison, the 11 P8is did 29,000 flight hours in 9 years! It's not difficult to imagine how useful, a fleet of 10 drones would be for the Navy (+ 10 each for the Air Force and the Navy).

[skanchan95]

Not sure how true this is...

After IAF, now Indian Navy to get Rafale fighter jets


The Indian Navy has rejected the American jet F/A-18 Super Hornet and opted for the deal with Rafale. The deal for the Rafale M is being termed as a milestone in the relations between India and France

January 04, 2023 16:59:31

Paris: After the Indian Air Force (IAF) the Indian Navy is also in line to get Rafale fighter aircraft from France. Earlier, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had chosen the Rafale for its new squadron, now the Indian Navy is set to acquire the Rafale M.

According to the French media, this deal can be signed between the two countries when French President Emmanuel Macron visits India in March.

Interestingly, the Indian Navy has rejected the American jet F/A-18 Super Hornet and opted for the deal with Rafale. The deal for the Rafale M is being termed as a milestone in the relations between India and France.


If you believe in defence sources, then the Indian Navy is about to signed a multi-billion dollar deal with France for 26 Rafale M aircraft.

Rafale M to be deployed on INS Vikrant
Dassault Aviation, the maker of Rafale, is confident that Rafale M will be suitable for the Indian Navy’s warship INS Vikrant. Rafale M is still being used by the armies of Greece, Indonesia and UAE.

The interesting thing is that the Indian Navy has rejected the American fighter jet F/A-18 Super Hornet. Both fighter jets were trialled by the Navy earlier this year. A detailed report of this trial was submitted to the Defence Ministry of India in December. Both fighter jets were tested at INS Hansa, a naval base in Goa.

Why Indian Navy chose Rafale M
The Indian Navy believes that Rafale can meet its needs much better. The Indian Navy wants to decommission 43 outdated Russian fighter jets MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB from its fleet. The Navy had several aircraft names in mind but the final race was between the Rafale M and the F-18. The French Navy currently has 240 Rafale M jets. Dassault started manufacturing these jets from the year 1986.


Both the jets are already deployed on advanced aircraft carriers. In such a situation, both jets are fit for aircraft carriers equipped with CATOBARs system.

The Indian Navy currently has a new aircraft carrier INS Vikrant and an older INS Vikramaditya.

INS Vikramaditya is a Kyiv class aircraft carrier of the Soviet Union which has been modernized in India. Both these warships are STOBAR aircraft carriers.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/afte...-11928432.html

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On a complete tangent, I came across the wildest suggestion from a Russian apparatchik today.

This Russian official is actually suggesting that they scrap the Kuznetsov and just buy back the Liaoning from China!! I don't know about you guys but I actually chuckled reading it.

Some folks on twitter even went as far as to suggest the RuN buy back INS Vikramaditya before someone pointed out that there too, the lifts only have enough room to accommodate the Mig-29, thereby killing that amusing proposal. Was just thinking, would rather have 2 domestically built Vikrant class carriers if it meant the Vikramaditya were to leave the picture.

Imagine India selling a Vikrant class to Russia! How the tables have turned.

I should point out that all of this is amusing conjecture, no chance China nor India is selling Vlad a surface ship, let alone a capital ship like a carrier. Just emblematic of the many ways in which Russia has fallen as a result of their disastrous invasion.

[skanchan95]

After Glorious 46-Year Run & 40,000 Hours of Flying, Navy's 'Sea Dragon' Ilyushin 38 to Bid Adieu on R-Day

Ilyushin 38 --- the oldest Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance aircraft --- is an extremely potent anti-submarine warfare aircraft with combat-capability encompassing both surface and sub-surface weapons

After flying for more than 40,000 hours during a glorious 46-year service, Ilyushin 38 — the oldest Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance squadron — will mark its debut as well as farewell at this year’s Republic Day Parade.

“Ilyushin 38 Sea Dragon aircraft, which is part of Indian Naval Air Squadron 315 based at Goa, proudly known as Winged Stallions, is the oldest Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance squadron of the Indian Navy," a navy official told News18.

The official said it was commissioned in 1977 and has rendered yeoman service to the nation for the last 46 years. The IL 38 SD is an extremely potent anti-submarine warfare aircraft with combat-capability encompassing both surface and sub-surface weapons.

"This legendary warhorse has galloped and left its mark over the complete Indian Ocean Region flying over 40,000 hours and continues to do so. The IL 38 SD is capable of firing anti-ship missiles; torpedo and SAHAYAK air droppable containers hundreds of miles into sea to warships in distress," the official added.

Retired Captain DK Sharma, while speaking to News18, said the Sea Dragon was the backbone of Maritime but not easy to maintain.

”It was not very easy to maintain these aircraft. It was a huge challenge for the Indian Navy. The temperature of Russia was very low compared to that in India but we managed. Maintaining the performance of the sensors, gadgets etc used to be a big challenge," he said.

However, everything changed after a mid-air collision between two IL 38 in Goa in 2002. Before that, the aircraft had an accident-free run. Four experienced pilots were among the 17 killed in the accident and the Navy lost its two aircraft.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Not sure how true this is...



https://www.firstpost.com/world/afte...-11928432.html

This rews report says Rafales were manufactured since 1986, which is untrue. The first technology demonstrator flew in 1986.

[dragracer567]

For the first time ever, an Indian indigenous aircraft lands on an Indian indigenous aircraft carrier. Also, this is the first ever jet aircraft landing on the new Vikrant, but so much more fulfilling that it’s our own indigenous aircraft.

Couldn’t be more proud!

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Excellent news and what a pleasing sight to see the little Tejas land on a home grown carrier.

Sharing some clips from the IN Twitter profile:
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/statu...-SLDeDhTw&s=19

Quick question: looks almost like this prototype has canards up front, is that one of the navalisation adaptations of the Tejas? Or is it just the regular leading edge extension control surfaces that are super sized here?

Real shame the compromises on this are a red line for the Navy, a cost effective single engine naval fighter of Indian origin would be fantastic. If it came to pass it would end up being the only other single engine naval fighter I could think of bar the F35-B&C variants. Must be a naval top brass thing worldwide, wanting that twin engine security.

[ads11]

I thought I spied a Mig in the third photo lurking behind the island, and sure enough, seems like the first fixed wing aircraft to land on the INS Vikrant was the Mig 29K.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/...rY0HTVU9g&s=19

Good, a day of milestones for the carrier.

https://youtu.be/HdM-Nvo4Frg

Managed to find a clearer clip. Shame Twitter videos can't embed but this should let members view a bit easier.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

I thought I spied a Mig in the third photo lurking behind the island, and sure enough, seems like the first fixed wing aircraft to land on the INS Vikrant was the Mig 29K.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/...rY0HTVU9g&s=19

Good, a day of milestones for the carrier.

Ah, you have a sharp eye

This means that the Vikrant can already handle two different fighter jets - not bad for any aircraft carrier class given that some prominent carrier classes like the Queen Elizabeth class carriers can only handle one type of aircraft right now.

[V.Narayan]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...775908275.html

India’s first aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is expected to come out of a 15-month major refit at Karwar Naval Base and start sailing next week, followed by extensive sea trials in March. The 45,000-ton aircraft carrier will be handed over to the Indian Navy by end-March and the MiG-29K fighter operations will start in April 2023. The ship was sent for a major overhaul in Karwar in December 2021. We can only hope the GoI will take a decision soon on Rafale vs F-18 Hornet and we get both carriers fully operational & equipped in due course.

A classic historical photo of the last time we had two carriers sailing albeit by this point 8 years ago INS Viraat was very long in the tooth.

[Gansan]

Is Vikramaditya a white elephant? It was inducted barely a decade ago. How many repair/refits has it undergone since then? I think this is the third time. That too lasting a year or more at a time. I think during the decade we practically would have been without an operational carrier for at least three years if not more.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Is Vikramaditya a white elephant? It was inducted barely a decade ago. How many repair/refits has it undergone since then? I think this is the third time. That too lasting a year or more at a time. I think during the decade we practically would have been without an operational carrier for at least three years if not more.

I do not know how much time INS Vikramaditya has spent in the drydock. Others from the ship building industry are better positioned to answer. What little I know warships have short, medium and long refits {terminologies might differ amongst Navies}. As long refits come once in 5 to 8 years depending on the ship type this was probably a long refit of a little over 1 year. For our budgets she is an expensive ship to maintain and operate especially with the air assets which could cost as much if not more than the ship itself. For the very real threats we face - two belligerent nuclear armed neighbours, one the world's leading terrorist sponsor and the other increasingly behaving with less maturity, INS Vikramaditya is a necessity and not a white elephant. My opinion, others may differ. Ever since the first INS Vikrant entered service in 1961 folks ask this white elephant question especially journalists. Yet more countries today than ever before are building or operating aircraft or helicopter carriers. In today's age, just like an Army cannot expect to survive in the battlefield without air cover, neither can a naval fleet. Hope this helps.