[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

The last Indian Navy IL-38 flies into the sunset. INAS 315 "Winged Stallions" gets numberplated.

Thanks for sharing this significant news, that not a large amount of people will pay attention to.

I always get sad learning about workhorse equipment of any armed forces - especially our own - going into sunset.
But what is even more disheartening since many years (and refuses to improve) is the number of squadrons of aircrafts shifting to number-plated status. And this silly mind - refuses to accept it as routine, it still gets frustrated to see no real expansion of airwings ever got planned or realized in this huge country.

Yes the P8 is a capable and vastly modern platform no doubt. But numerical superiority is simply irreplaceable & here we are - just shrinking more and more.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

Bit sad that the MRMR plan is getting pushed to the back burner as a result but I can understand the IN wanting to get the long lead time capital ship green flagged at the earliest opportunity. Here's hoping the MRMR gets greenlit soon though, would be a very handy force multiplier in the region. Especially if they can work up one based on the C295 as discussed on the other thread.

Don’t think it’s put on the back burner, just won’t be discussed in this particular DAC meeting. I’m guessing the MRMR will brought up sooner than later since the first Indian made C295s haven’t rolled off yet. Till then, I guess the Navy would be focusing on the acquisition of the 6 extra P8is (so the total fleet would be 18) along with the 15 predators that would function as MRMR force multipliers on their own (i.e each having the capability to cover as much area as multiple C295s).

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Yes the P8 is a capable and vastly modern platform no doubt. But numerical superiority is simply irreplaceable & here we are - just shrinking more and more.

Again, the P8is do have a force multiplier effect, so you just won’t need as many aircraft to do the same type of mission. That said, you are right in that numerical superiority is still desirable in many scenarios such as in the case of a shooting war with attrition or peacetime accidents where even the loss of a single airframe can be devastating.

[ads11]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-era-to-an-end

Interesting to see Angad Singh is now a guest contributor to the War Zone. In any case, a nice long read for the retiring bird. Fair bit of history thrown in here too

[Dieseltuned]

Hi team,

A quick observation. I was at Dabolim - Goa recently and saw the Naval LCA doing a test flight. (Since it was LCA and at Dabolim so assuming that this is the Naval LCA) I think this is good as it seems that the Naval LCA program is still alive.

Regards
Diesel

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

Bit sad that the MRMR plan is getting pushed to the back burner as a result but I can understand the IN wanting to get the long lead time capital ship green flagged at the earliest opportunity. Here's hoping the MRMR gets greenlit soon though, would be a very handy force multiplier in the region. Especially if they can work up one based on the C295 as discussed on the other thread.

Seems like this is in the advanced stage now. India will order 15 maritime patrol versions of the Indian-made C295 - with the tech being developed by DRDO. Out of the 15, 9 will go to the Navy and the rest to the Coast Guard. The numbers are low given that the Navy operates more numbers of the much more expensive P8, so I guess this is just the first batch. All in all, great news.

Even more significantly, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by the Defence Minister is scheduled to issue the "acceptance of necessity" (AoN) for 4 projects, two of which pertain to Naval Aviation:

1) 26 Rafale Jets

2) Second carrier of the Vikrant class

Needless to say, these are significant developments though I do wish that the flagging submarine numbers are addressed on a war footing as well. It does seem prudent to utilise the existing expertise & resources to build a second carrier for the Vikrant class, but hope the fighter jets are ready for this one though.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by ads11

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-era-to-an-end

Interesting to see Angad Singh is now a guest contributor to the War Zone. In any case, a nice long read for the retiring bird. Fair bit of history thrown in here too

First class article. Nice to see Indian defence journalism coming of age in depth and quality of writing. As a teenager I saw the Super Connies get inducted - they used to fly over our house on training sorties; I then saw the IL-38's coming in soon thereafter. Then as a young man I saw the Tu-142Ms come albeit from afar and now they are all gone to the last propeller blade. It is amazing how time sails. Onwards with the P-38I and the C-295.

It is a testimony of the times that in the late 1970s we barely could afford 3 Il-38s even though the Soviets were not over charging and payments were in INR. Today we talk of double digits for far more expensive maritime recce aircraft. The sheer tightness of budgets of the 1960s and 1970s is no longer understood today. Glad for it.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Seems like this is in the advanced stage now. India will order 15 maritime patrol versions of the Indian-made C295 - with the tech being developed by DRDO. Out of the 15, 9 will go to the Navy and the rest to the Coast Guard. The numbers are low given that the Navy operates more numbers of the much more expensive P8, so I guess this is just the first batch. All in all, great news.

Beyond the gripe about the "AoN" itself being yet another bureaucratic rhetorical device almost, I don't think low numbers of this C-295 MRMR is a bad thing necessarily. It's all about getting a foot in the door. Likely if the platform proves to be a success, those early examples will provide the basis from which further add on orders could be made. Isn't that pretty much what happened with the P9s themselves?

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

First class article. Nice to see Indian defence journalism coming of age in depth and quality of writing.

There's a lot of jingoistic and worse still hack writers in this space but I've always found Angad's work to be quite measured, but more importantly meticulously researched (this aspect I really appreciate). I think it's hardly surprising that you enjoyed it given it has the same level of attention to detail as your own!

[V.Narayan]

Israeli air-to-ground long range stand-off missile Rampage operational with MiG-29K's of the Indian Navy

https://idrw.org/first-look-at-rampa...navys-mig-29k/

The Indian Navy has integrated the Israeli Rampage 200 kms surface attack missile with its fleet of ~40 MiG-29Ks.

It is a standoff weapon designed to hit high-value targets such as radar installations, communications centers, weapons storage facilities and airfields while the launch aircraft remains out of range of enemy air defenses.

The specifications of the Rampage are:-

Weight: 570 kgs
Warhead weight: 150 kgs EPF warhead ie a super armour/concerete penetrator.
Range: 50 to 200 kms
Launch envelope: 3000 to 40,000 feet
Speed to target: 150 to 550 metres/second {~540 to 1980 kmph}
Guidance: Inertial + Satellite or data link updates; terminal is infrared
CEP: 10 metres {CEP or Circular Error Possible is the radius within which it is expected to hit 50% of the time}

File photo of Rampage being launched in a test from an Israeli F-16

[dragracer567]

Indian Navy receives MALE drone - the Adani Drishti-10 Starliner

This drone is basically an Indian version of the Israeli Elbit's Hermes drone manufactured by Adani Defence. The Navy and Army have gone in for two units each of the drones under emergency procurement while overall, the Indian Armed Forces are expected to procure 150 units of the drone overall.

This comes as the indigenous Rustom II project has apparently been scaled down due to performance concerns. There has been some outrage on social media that a foreign product is being sold after shutting down an indigenous effort & potentially affecting the upcoming Archer NG project as well - this was especially annoying for some as the Drishti was apparently projected as indigenous.

Anyway, India does need a second tier fleet (behind the more capable MQ-9s) of a large number of MALE UAVs as we are particularly lacking in numbers compared to our neighbours & we cannot wait for long.

Manufactured by Adani Defence and Aerospace in partnership with the Israeli firm Elbit, in Hyderabad, the Drishti 10 StarLiner, with an endurance of 36 hours, satellite connectivity and the ability to carry a payload of 450 kg, is the Indian version of the original Hermes StarLiner.

Both the Navy and the Army have gone in for two drones each, with a service ceiling of 30,000 feet, under emergency procurement which allows them to bypass tardy bureaucratic procedures for deals up to Rs 300 crore.

Asked about the indigenous content on the drone, sources involved with the project said that it stood at 70 percent and the company plans to scale it up.

“Indian Navy and Indian Army have placed orders for two each of these Drishti-10 drones to meet our emergent requirement for satellite communication-enabled drones,” Lt Gen Ajay Suri, Director-General of Army Aviation, said at the event in Hyderabad Wednesday.

The navy chief, meanwhile, added that with state-of-the-art sensors, enhanced endurance, advanced communication capabilities as well as new-age technologies like automatic take-off and landing (ATOL), Drishti would be a potent force multiplier, adding more capability and credibility to Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions across the Indian Ocean region.

He added that, additionally, the versatility and flexibility offered through modularity and mobility of ground support equipment would enable us to operate it from any naval air stations across “Bharat”.

The drone is qualified for flight in civilian non-segregated airspace and in adverse weather conditions thanks to its unique and unlimited deicing mechanism. According to the company, the drone also has Starliner features over-the-horizon, persistent multi-mission, multi-sensor capabilities with a class-leading payload carrying capacity.

The Navy currently operates tactical drones in addition to the four High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) drones called ‘Sea Guardians’.

[V.Narayan]

US Blocks $3-Billion Drone Sale to India Until ‘Meaningful Investigation’ of Pannun Assassination Conspiracy

https://thewire.in/security/us-drone...-investigation
https://www.theweek.in/news/world/20...-ny-court.html

The US government has held back delivery of 31 MQ-9B Sea Guardian and Sky Guardian drones to India until New Delhi carries out a “meaningful investigation” into the conspiracy to assassinate Gurpatwant Singh Pannun. Pannun, who hold dual US and Canadian citizenship, is a New York-based Khalistan activist long accused by India of terrorism and enticement to murder and terrorism. I do not know if these purchases have already been paid for or not.

The proposed $3 billion purchase includes 15 Sea Guardian drones for the Indian Navy, while the Indian Air Force and Army are supposed to get eight Sky Guardian drones each. Also held back by Washington are other big Indian acquisitions, including a proposal to buy six Boeing P-8I long-range maritime patrol aircraft. These are to supplement 12 P-8I Poseidon aircraft that the Indian Navy already operates.

In a joint statement on the Pannun plot last December, five US Congress members of Indian origin – who received a classified briefing from the Biden administration on the federal indictment – said that it is critical for India to “fully investigate and hold those responsible, including Indian government officials, accountable, and provide assurances that this will not happen again”.

US federal prosecutors allege that Gupta had promised $100,000 to an FBI agent posing as a hitman to kill Pannun in New York. Gupta was arrested in the Czech Republic on June 30 at America’s request. On November 29, US federal prosecutors charged Gupta with murder-for-hire, which carries up to 10 years in prison; and conspiracy to commit murder-for-hire, which has a maximum sentence of a 10-year jail term.

The Indian-American lawmakers also warned of “significant damage” to the US-India partnership if New Delhi does not address the situation directly and quickly.

I always was wary of an over leaning towards the US for defence purchases because the US Govt is incapable of speaking in one voice divided as they can be between President – Senate – Congress. This is one more blinding in the eye example of the way our arms will be twisted if we lean too far towards USA for military equipment. And here we are not talking of a war just a disagreement over a bloody terrorist who openly brazenly calls for heinous crimes to be committed.

This is a stupidly short sighted move by US Congress. Indians have a v-e-r-y long memory. Even today on strategic matters India views USA with suspicion and with good reason given the number of occasions they chopped our feet in times of a crises for the first 60 years after 1947. Relations had just started thawing and Xi Jinping has been helping the Indo-US relations cause. But now….!!! As a brown skin nation with an independent line of thinking on foreign policy we will always be second class partner in any America led alliance. We will always be another Turkey. Better we keep our balance with China {which we are trying}, keep developing our own military design & manufacture abilities, buy from friendly nations such as France and stay out of US led alliances except maybe symbolic ones like the Quad.

Details of the MQ-9A Sea Guardian:

Wingspan: 79 feet
Length: 38 feet
Power Plant: Honeywell Tpe331-10 Turboprop
Max Take-off Weight: 12,500 Lb /5,670 Kg
Payload Capacity: 363 Kg (Internal) + 2155 Kg (External)
Nine External Hardpoints: 8 Wing-Mounted, 1 Centreline

SeaGuardian can undertake the following maritime operations.

Search and Rescue
Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief at High Seas
Maritime Law Enforcement
Anti-Surface Warfare
Anti-Submarine Warfare
Airborne Mine Counter Measures
Over-the-Horizon Targeting

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

US Blocks $3-Billion Drone Sale to India Until ‘Meaningful Investigation’ of Pannun Assassination Conspiracy

Such shameless arm twisting and dirty tactics were to be expected from the Americans. Look at how they left the Pakistanis high and dry after the Soviet Withdrawal from Afghanistan. They again cosied up to the Pakistanis by dangling the F-16 carrot when they went to war in Afghanistan at the start of the 21st century.

More than that terrorist Pannu, I think the Americans are upset at how we stubbornly refuse to leave Russia's corner( rightly so, their actions in Ukraine notwithstanding) and they want to arm twist us into abandoning Russia. It is the hidden message in this and good thing we have a strong government that will not give in.

It isn't rocket science to figure out that US wants to use India as a bulwark/ counter balance against China in case the Chinese invade Taiwan. They may see this tension between India and US to pull India out of US's corner by offering to resolve border issues seriously and improving relations. They had sent out feelers regarding this through the CCP's mouthpiece - Global Times not too long ago.

Question is - if this deal goes south, what are the MQ-9 equivalents that India should or can consider?

[ads11]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

This is a stupidly short sighted move by US Congress. Indians have a v-e-r-y long memory. Even today on strategic matters India views USA with suspicion and with good reason given the number of occasions they chopped our feet in times of a crises for the first 60 years after 1947. Relations had just started thawing and Xi Jinping has been helping the Indo-US relations cause. But now….!!! Better we keep our balance with China {which we are trying}, keep developing our own military design & manufacture abilities, buy from friendly nations such as France and stay out of US led alliances except maybe symbolic ones like the Quad.

Hmm, can't say I'm surprised, such a snafu was due as defence sales ties revert back to the median. It's sad because it'd be a shame especially if the crucial Poseidon fleet gets impacted. It does indeed serve as exhibit N+1 to reinforce the need to diversity and go domestic as much as possible. What will be curious to see is which way Indo US defence ties and procurement trends if indeed we have a Trump administration again. Really hard to say. Like you said, mood swings on Capitol Hill are super seasonal. Lord knows how long this stance will last. I saw rumours that Turkey might be readmitted to the F35 programme so you really just never know.

I mean state sanctioned extra judicial killings or attempted ones will rightfully gather criticism. Part of me wonders if this is just an excuse to throw the toys out the pram at recent deals in favour of the francophone defence bloc.

[skanchan95]

Conflicting report from Financial Times couple of hours ago:

Defence Ministry set to receive LoA for 31 MQ-9 drones from US

[ads11]

I'd wait and see how this plays out. If this is indeed being held up on the Hill, I'd wait till I can read the smoke from one of the heavy hitting Senate Committees like the Foreign Relations Committee for eg. If one of those weighs in to be the one to block this - then it's a pickle. If it's just some working group of junior congressmen and women, then maybe it's just some attention seeking behaviour during primary season when they're bound to be ignored more or less.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

US Blocks $3-Billion Drone Sale to India Until ‘Meaningful Investigation’ of Pannun Assassination Conspiracy

This deal has always been a poisoned chalice, it was almost canceled during the initial days of the Russia-Ukraine war when the West really forced India to pick a side.

That said, the reports claim that the information comes from 'anonymous sources' and the congress hasn't actually been formally notified yet if I understand correctly. So, the 'hold up' could pretty much mean the opinions of a handful of congressmen/women which shouldn't really have a significant effect. The relationship with India is one of the rare subjects with bipartisan support. Moreover, the coverage by the US media regarding the Pannun case was remarkably mute - considering the gravity of the allegation. Wouldn't be surprised if this is some sort of information warfare to exploit the situation/sentiments.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

[h3]Better we keep our balance with China {which we are trying}

The Chinese have a vested interest in maintaining a hostile posture with India. If anything, India's relations with China is worse than what the latter has with the West. The West is atleast talking to the Chinese, we aren't and for the first time, neither India nor China has a single journalist in each other's countries. It's no longer about India being the West's able partner against China but about the West being India's able partner against China.

Originally Posted by skanchan95

Conflicting report from Financial Times couple of hours ago:

Defence Ministry set to receive LoA for 31 MQ-9 drones from US

This report only validates my doubts.