[robby0707]

Isn’t it best that we leave the duty of finding the reason and holding people accountable to the people who are directly involved? There is no way that we, sitting here can discuss much about the unfortunate incident without sufficient knowledge about combat flying and without access to the FDR/CVR recordings.
Even I’m eager to find out how this happened. Lets wait

[shankar.balan]

Oh no. How terrible that more of our pilots are lost.
I really wish our GOI would seriously up the budgets for our defence forces to make some serious equipment and technology upgrades.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by SuperGirl_Dad

Probe has been ordered. Will there be any accountability?

Your rhetorical question pre-supposes there is no or little accountability. IAF boards of enquiries are usually quite forthright. Two fast combat jets manoeuvering close in a training sortie could collide due to a hundred reasons, sad as it is.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I really wish our GOI would seriously up the budgets for our defence forces to make some serious equipment and technology upgrades.

This is not about technology upgrades. Both are highly highly advanced fighters. Only a proper board of enquiry will reveal the cause.

[sagarpadaki]

Does IAF make the reports of the investigation public?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Does IAF make the reports of the investigation public?

I am not sure why should they do so beyond its immediate stakeholders. We the general public are not expected to be privy to details of whether there were communication/flight control/airmanship issues in the incident. Besides the fact that any deficiencies may need to be addressed at tactical or strategic levels to thwart any security risks.

[dragracer567]

IAF releases RFI for Medium transport aircraft

After the joint project with Russia didn't pan out as planned, the IAF has released RFI to purchase 40-80 medium transport aircraft with a significant share of these aircraft to be produced locally - quite similar to the C295 deal that has been signed recently. Given that the requirement is for a payload between 18 to 30 tonnes, the following aircraft seems eligible:

1) Lockheed Martin C130J Hercules
2) Embraer C390

Selecting between these two aircraft is clearly a no-brainer given that the C390 is superior to the C130J in pretty much all aspects. However, the C130J does have its own advantages such as being in operation with the IAF and many parts already being manufactured by Tata aerospace. But then again, Embraer was already eager about local assembly before this RFI as discussed in previous posts (my money is on this). In the end, it all depends on where the weightage is given during evaluation. Apart from these two, Airbus A400M and the Kawasaki C2 might also be considered though their payload capacity is higher than the highest requirement being sought. These are also quite expensive aircrafts though these are the biggest ones available after the C17 production stopped (unless we convince the Chinese to sell the Y20 ). In the end, hope this tender won't face the excruciating delays that the C295 tender faced as is common with Indian defence procurement.

[dragracer567]

The Americans have finally decided to shoot down the Chinese spy balloon that was allegedly spying on American military installations. The balloon was shot down by an F-22 Raptor using an AIM-9X Sidewinder in what seems like a comically mismatched engagement. The Chinese expressed outrage for shooting down what they claim is a research balloon that got blown offcourse. Overall, seems like something out of the cold war - more the things change, the more they stay the same I guess.

Back in 2018, an IAF Su-30 MKI shot down a Pakistani balloon using its cannon.

There were also claims that China used balloons to spy on India but from across the border.

[shortbread]

The underfunded UK Air force are putting up their fleet of remaining C-130J Hercules aircraft up for sale/retirement. 14 of these had originally been due to keep flying until the mid-2030s. So these second hand aircraft will be a quick and cost effective stop gap measure for the IAF, with 10-15 years of service left in them. Considering the pace of Indian defence procurement, new heavy lift aircraft will be atleast a decade away.

I understand and respect the fact that the Indian govt. are willing to accommodate any delays as long as an indigenous supply pipeline can be created so that future procurement can be domestically sourced. But oh boy is it taking time?!

Originally Posted by dragracer567

IAF releases RFI for Medium transport aircraft

After the joint project with Russia didn't pan out as planned, the IAF has released RFI to purchase 40-80 medium transport aircraft with a significant share of these aircraft to be produced locally - quite similar to the C295 deal that has been signed recently. Given that the requirement is for a payload between 18 to 30 tonnes, the following aircraft seems eligible:

1) Lockheed Martin C130J Hercules
2) Embraer C390

Selecting between these two aircraft is clearly a no-brainer given that the C390 is superior to the C130J in pretty much all aspects. However, the C130J does have its own advantages such as being in operation with the IAF and many parts already being manufactured by Tata aerospace. But then again, Embraer was already eager about local assembly before this RFI as discussed in previous posts (my money is on this). In the end, it all depends on where the weightage is given during evaluation. Apart from these two, Airbus A400M and the Kawasaki C2 might also be considered though their payload capacity is higher than the highest requirement being sought. These are also quite expensive aircrafts though these are the biggest ones available after the C17 production stopped (unless we convince the Chinese to sell the Y20 ). In the end, hope this tender won't face the excruciating delays that the C295 tender faced as is common with Indian defence procurement.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by shortbread

The underfunded UK Air force are putting up their fleet of remaining C-130J Hercules aircraft up for sale/retirement. 14 of these had originally been due to keep flying until the mid-2030s. So these second hand aircraft will be a quick and cost effective stop gap measure for the IAF, with 10-15 years of service left in them. Considering the pace of Indian defence procurement, new heavy lift aircraft will be atleast a decade away.

I understand and respect the fact that the Indian govt. are willing to accommodate any delays as long as an indigenous supply pipeline can be created so that future procurement can be domestically sourced. But oh boy is it taking time?!

Are we at all surprised procurement decisions are taking time? If anything, when something happens on schedule or rarer still, ahead of schedule, then that's cause for shock.

Anyway, this is an excellent suggestion imo!! The last time the British military were forced to sell serviceable aircraft due to budgetary constraints, their Harrier fleet, the USMC practically bit their hand off to take those jets at a throwaway price. I see plenty of reason to do the same here. Those are likely well looked after and very useful aircraft, given their versatility. I have no doubt they'll immediately prove useful bolstering the existing fleet (being the same version after all). Fingers crossed someone at the IAF and in South Bloc recognises this gilt edged opportunity and pounces.

[ads11]

Speaking of serviceable aircraft being retired too early, looks like the Japanese have decided to go all in on UAVs, replacing the entire rotary wing element of the JGSDF!

Might be a window then to pick up some Apache air frames on the cheap if India is smart about it, granted it's Block D and we seem to operate the E block variant.

If the Japanese are also deciding to retire their transport helicopter fleet (which would be a perplexing choice no doubt) there could be Chinooks too!

The late PM Abe loosening export controls and the cordial relations between Japan and India should make this an amenable deal (hopefully), provided the premise is sound.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by ads11

Might be a window then to pick up some Apache air frames on the cheap if India is smart about it, granted it's Block D and we seem to operate the E block variant.

Pretty sure that the Block Ds are upgradable to Block Es.

Overall, India has always seemed reluctant to go for the used option, the only recent example that comes to mind are the Mig-29s from Russia and the Air India A320 family jets for the DRDO and AWACS. Even then, the former didn’t make it (though more likely due to the Ukraine war).

Seems more common in the west though, apart from the harrier example you pointed out, Canada got some old hornets from Australia (though widely ridiculed in Canada).

[aim120]

Attack helicopters fare poorly in dense urban areas and areas with plenty of tree cover, FLIR cannot see through them. Manpads take them out easily as seen in Yemen and ukraine conflict, Saudi and UAE AH64D getting shot down and Russian Ka-52.

AH64 scored well in Iraq and Afghanistan, where they where being fired upon by RPG and not manpads.

[ads11]

I'm massively stereotyping here but I'd reckon as used airframes go, the Japanese would've taken good care of their kit. As opposed to a spare airframe left out in a field somewhere in Russia (the Migs). Again, there's some healthy generalising here.

I wonder if it's just a cultural thing for us Indians. There's a bit of an innate reluctance towards used goods, especially when they're expensive items.

Anyway, the C-130 opportunity would definitely be my priority with these used options. Any time there's an unfortunate mishap these airlift platforms are worth their weight in gold I feel, simply for their ability to get stuff from point A to B.

The ex JGSDF Apaches would be a nice bonus for the Indian Army.

[SmartCat]

Interesting tweet by Pravin Sawhney (Editor, Force Magazine):



After F-35, US gives B-1 push to Aero India
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/20...ero-india.html

A release issued by the US embassy quoted Major General Julian C. Cheater, Assistant Deputy Under Secretary of the US Air Force, International Affairs, as saying: “The B-1 offers flexible options to senior leaders and combatant commanders. Greater integration with our Allies and partners throughout the region is a positive step towards greater interoperability.”

[ads11]

Crikey, I raised an eyebrow when the Americans brought their prized F-35 to Aero India. That alone is a pretty big step in isolation. Now you're telling me they know only brought their Lancers but they're ambiguously offering it too?! Boy. How the tides change. In the last decade they've really done a pretty strong about turn. A lot of the moves being made now would've been unthinkable just 5 years ago.

Coming back to the Lancer, have they offered it to any other allies? Personally while a strategic bomber is a nice-to-have capability for the IAF, it's not exactly something that's needed in terms of the primarily defensive posture.

Still it's a good sign that you're starting to see elements of the State Dept and Pentagon and even lawmakers on both sides becoming increasingly open to offering up more and more, be it kit or policy concessions.

It'll be fascinating to see how India navigates this while sticking to it's foundational independent track when it comes to bilateral and multilateral relations.

Hopefully behind these eye catching announcements/proclamations, real headway is being made on more humbler kit that's more needed in the near future.