[sid93]

Originally Posted by graaja

The 35W 5500K Morimotos on the low beam looks awesome! The light spread is also superb!

Maybe you should plan to change the high beams as well to HID. The only drawback is the warm up time required. It takes about 10 seconds for the HID to reach full brightness. So, if you frequently turn on and off the high beams, you will not have full brightness on each operation. But on long drives where you keep high beam on for longer duration, you will see very good performance.

Thought of that, but dropped the plan after seeing the limited space available in the engine bay. And one more problem, apart from what you mentioned is Dim-Dip(Flashing).
BTW How Dim-Dip is working in yours(Bixenons) when you do it in the mornings or at dawn (Headlights not turned on)?

[graaja]

Originally Posted by sid93

BTW How Dim-Dip is working in yours(Bixenons) when you do it in the mornings or at dawn (Headlights not turned on)?

It works perfectly fine. While flashing, I can see that the light comes on with about 70% of brightness. So, this is enough for flashing during daytime.

Once I have the Lux meter, I will try to test the instantaneous brightness while flashing.

[graaja]

35W vs. 55W HID Light Output and Current Draw Measurements

After the brighness measurements I did with the android app when changing to Hylux ballasts, I decided to do some proper light measurements with a standard light meter, measure battery current and compare the Hylux 35W setup and Lumens Systems 55W setup.

I would like to thank fellow TBHP member "batterylow" for bringing his Ford Figo that has Lumens Systems BiXenons with 55W ballasts and HIDs for measuring the light output and current draw.

Instruments:

For the measurements, I needed a Light meter to measure light intensity and a DC clamp meter to measure current.

HTC Light meter. This meter measures light intensity in Lumens. Got this from eBay for Rs.1,425


DC Clamp Meter. This meter can measure the current drain from the battery without having to disconnect any wires. Got this from Amazon for Rs.3,250. This is Meco make Model 36.


Light Measurement:

For light measurement, I took two readings one at 10 feet and another at 15 feet from the headlights. I moved the light meter's receiver around the hotspot area and recorded the maximum value. Repeated this measurement for the right and left side headlights for both the GT TSi and the Figo.

Measuring the brightness at the hotspot.


A closer look at the meter.


Current measurement:

For current measurement, I measured the current through the +ve wire that goes from the battery to the relay harness. This would give the total power consumed by both the headlights. Then I measured the voltage across the battery. Multiplying voltage and current gives power.


Results:

Following table shows the readings taken from both the setups.

Readings taken at 10 feet.


Readings taken at 15 feet.


Observations:
1. The left side light of the 55W setup is 95% brighter than the 35W setup.
2. The right side light of the 55W setup is only 8% brighter than the 35W setup.
3. The power drawn from the battery for the 55W setup is 56W per ballast, and the power drawn from the battery for the 35W setup is 40W per ballast.
4. For every 5 feet distance, the light output becomes 50%. This can be seen with the values at 10' and 15'. I also verified this relationship by measuring at 20', but did not record it.
5. The brighter left headlight of the 55W setup has an output of 138Lumens/Watt, and the 35W setup has 99Lumens/Watt.

Conclusions:

55W setup advantages:

• The 55W setup produces almost twice the light compared to the 35W setup.
• The ballast / bulb combination of the 55W Lumens Systems setup has 40% more Lumens/Watts. So purely on the light output, the Lumens systems setup provides better light to power ratio.

55W setup disadvantages:

• The right side headlight in the 55W produces almost half the light compared to the left side light. This could be either due to the drop in the long wire in the relay harness or variation in ballast/bulb quality. When I had the 55W setup, even I had observed the right side light to have 50% light compared to left side, and I also had one bulb failure which was replaced under warranty.
• The 55W setup would produce more heat which may affect the life of the projectors. From the many online threads I read in various forums, the Mini H1 is not designed to handle the heat generated by 55W and everyone recommends a 35W setup for Mini H1. Even I had one set of projectors fail with the 55W setup.

35W set up advantages:

• The 35W setup runs cooler than the 55W setup and hence should result in better reliability of the projector components (fingers crossed). This may be the reason why all (if not, most) OEM projectors are rated at 35W
• The light output from both the headlights is equal

35W setup disadvantages:

• Of course, the biggest disadvantage of the 35W setup is that the light output is just half the 55W setup. Surprisingly, the visibility is still as good as the 55W setup. I really do not have an explanation for this, but maybe human eyes do not perceive 2x improvement in visibility though the light output is 2x.

What Next?

When I had bought the Hylux ballasts, I had a long discussion with the person from XenonPlanet. He told me that all Mini H1 projectors including the ones he sells (and even Morimotos), are replicas. There is no such thing as OEM Mini H1. These projectors are not designed to handle the heat produced by 55W HID. FXR is capable of 55W. In most of the Mini H1's, the chrome coating in the reflector bowl is not of good quality and if subjected to higher temperatures, will peel off or discolor very quickly. This will affect the light output.

So, I am thinking of measuring the heat generated by the 35W and 55W HIDs. The Meco 36 clamp meter comes with a temperature measuring function with a temperature sensor attachment - this is a small wire with a small thermocouple at the end. I think I can insert this wire into the headlight assembly and measure the temperature at the reflector. This test should tell how cool the 35W HID runs, or how hot the 55W HID runs. Will update when I do this test.

[AbhisheKulkarni]

@Graaja (& other esteemed BHPians):

I have done a bi-xenon projector retrofit on my 2015 GT TSI. It has been a couple of weeks since the installation was done and I am now going to have to do a final alignment of the cutoff; the beam pattern as well as the vertical alignment. I have been driving with the default alignment, which is not perfect, to understand the light throw better so that I know how I need the alignment to be.

I must say that your thread (and Gannu_1's DIY thread) helped me a lot in understanding the entire process and the pitfalls/risks therein. Thank you for the elaborate write-up!

I have a few questions for you with respect to the projector alignment and some other aspects of the retro-fit. However let me share with you an overview of my setup, which may help you to understand my questions better.

Car: Polo GT TSI delivered in March '15 (double barrel headlamp assembly)

Bi-Xenon Setup's Components:

1. Projectors: Morimoto Mini H1 6.0 (2.5" O Lens)
2. Ballast: Morimoto XB55 (50W)
3. HIDs: Morimoto H1 XB (5500K)

My rationale/approach for the retrofit:

1. OE headlamp assembly retained
2. Purchased (a pair of) pre-worshipped EagleEye GTi Replica headlamps.
3. Replaced the default halogen projectors with the Mini H1 6.0(s).
4. Replica headlamps come with 100W halogens for the high-beam (default projectors are low-beam only).
5. Projector solenoid and halogen high beam triggers shorted.
6. When headlamp switch is off (projector low beam is off) and dipper is triggered, only halogens turn on (yes, the projector's shield moves to it's high-beam position for the active duration of the dipper).
7. When the headlamp switch is on (projector low beam is on) and high-beam is switched on, both the projectors as well as halogens, switch on. Same is the case for the dipper in this scenario as well.
8. No wiring has been spliced/cut wrt. the wiring harness/connector of the OE headlamps. A mating connector was prepared for the retrofit.
9. I haven't used a relay - power is drawn from the OE wiring harness directly.
10. Headlamp leveling, as is already available in the replica headlamps, is retained and works as expected.

My baby before the retrofit:


And after:


And now, the questions:

1. Yes, the right (driver's) side projector's output is visibly lesser than the left. Considering that this is so even with the use of relay, it means that the battery voltage attenuation (and therefore lesser current at those terminals) due to the effective length of the wiring harness for the right side could be the probable root-cause. Any work-arounds which you have thought of?
2. When you did the alignment of the cutoff, as per one of your detailed posts (on Page 2 of this thread), you mentioned that the position of the projectors was marked on the wall by having the car placed as close to the wall as possible. This vertical alignment of the height of the cutoff from the ground - was it done when the headlamp leveling switch setting was at 0, at 3 or somewhere in between? You haven't mentioned this in the alignment post, and it may be something very obvious which I may not have realized but kindly do share the reasoning as well.
3. Have you thought of retro-fitting a headlamp washer for the car for those rainy, mucky days when mud and slush accumulates on the headlamp lens?

[graaja]

Originally Posted by AbhisheKulkarni

...
And now, the questions:

1. Yes, the right (driver's) side projector's output is visibly lesser than the left. Considering that this is so even with the use of relay, it means that the battery voltage attenuation (and therefore lesser current at those terminals) due to the effective length of the wiring harness for the right side could be the probable root-cause. Any work-arounds which you have thought of?
2. When you did the alignment of the cutoff, as per one of your detailed posts (on Page 2 of this thread), you mentioned that the position of the projectors was marked on the wall by having the car placed as close to the wall as possible. This vertical alignment of the height of the cutoff from the ground - was it done when the headlamp leveling switch setting was at 0, at 3 or somewhere in between? You haven't mentioned this in the alignment post, and it may be something very obvious which I may not have realized but kindly do share the reasoning as well.
3. Have you thought of retro-fitting a headlamp washer for the car for those rainy, mucky days when mud and slush accumulates on the headlamp lens?

The replica GTi headlights look cool Also, I believe Morimoto Mini H1 6.0 would give a good light pattern.

Only concern I have is Mini H1 upto verson 6.0 were only rated for 35W HID setup. Only version 7.0 is compatible with 50W setup.

Answers to your questions below:

1. In my setup, since I changed over to a 35W Hylux/CNbulb setup, both the sides have equal brightness now. In a relay harness, if you have this voltage drop, the work around could be to replace the wires with a thicker gauge wires to reduce voltage drop. But as you have used the original wiring harness, I cannot think of any workaround. But there is one point to be considered. Do you see the difference in brighness even with high beam turned off or when high beam is turned on? The original wiring harness is designed for 55W halogens for the high beam. When you have a 100W halogen for high beam, the total load on high beam would be 155W (100W halogen high beam + 55W HID low beam). This will definitely load the wiring harness and will result in a higher voltage drop. I think you should change the 100W halogen to 55W halogen. In the night, as your BiXenons will give you a good high beam, you really do not need the 100W halogen for the high beam.

2. When I first did the alignment, I did not have the leveling motor (as I used a pre facelift single barrel headlamp housing). I added the leveling motor later. In your case, if you want to align, I would suggest to keep the leveling to middle position and align. That way you will have both high and low side adjustments later when the car is loaded.

3. No. Retrofitting a headlamp washer, I think would be too much of work - cutting the bumper, tapping the windshield washer water supply, implementing the logic for the headlight washer to get activated only when headlights are on etc. So, I did not even think about it.

[AbhisheKulkarni]

Originally Posted by graaja

The replica GTi headlights look cool Also, I believe Morimoto Mini H1 6.0 would give a good light pattern.

Only concern I have is Mini H1 upto verson 6.0 were only rated for 35W HID setup. Only version 7.0 is compatible with 50W setup.

I did a bit of homework on the HIDPlanet forum. The Mini H1 6.0 has been used by a LOT of people for the past 5-6 years, as I understand, it has been around since 2010.

The life of the HID bulb is reduced due to the higher wattage. There is a 20% reduction. But so far people haven't reported issues with the projector lens. Only if a 55W ballast is used, have people reported some discoloration of the lens. That too after severely heavy usage, from what I read, about 4-5 hours a day. The ballast that I have used is a 50W one and my usage is a maximum of 1 hour a day. So having considered all the risks, I decided to go ahead with it.

Originally Posted by graaja

Do you see the difference in brighness even with high beam turned off or when high beam is turned on?

I see it in low beam itself.

Originally Posted by graaja

I think you should change the 100W halogen to 55W halogen. In the night, as your BiXenons will give you a good high beam, you really do not need the 100W halogen for the high beam.

True, that. That much light is not required. I have reverted to the 55W halogens for the high-beam. But from a technicality perspective, the fuse for the high-beam comes rated for a current of 20A, and can support the 100W halogens by default. Although, I feel that the current consumption of the halogens is on the border of the fuse's rating.

[vin_b]

Couple of weeks back, I was driving on a state highway in the evening and I missed spotting a hump and went over it at probably 60kmph. Nothing happened to vehicle but the projector installation have gone for a toss. They have become extremely loose and now are just pointing down and throw is horrible. Even after multiple attempts to contact Vinod, haven't managed to get hold of him.

Now I am contemplating to go for the after market UU shaped headlamps as I had enough of opening the headlamps multiple times as I was never happy with the throw or frequent need for alignment

Hows your installation holding up Ganesh ?

[graaja]

Originally Posted by vin_b

Couple of weeks back, I was driving on a state highway in the evening and I missed spotting a hump and went over it at probably 60kmph. Nothing happened to vehicle but the projector installation have gone for a toss. They have become extremely loose and now are just pointing down and throw is horrible. Even after multiple attempts to contact Vinod, haven't managed to get hold of him.

Now I am contemplating to go for the after market UU shaped headlamps as I had enough of opening the headlamps multiple times as I was never happy with the throw or frequent need for alignment

Oops. That is bad. This is one major drawback of retrofits, as they are not mechanically as stable as OEM ones. If the projectors have not completely fallen off, then I think it should be possible to tighten the securing nut from the backside without having to open the lights.

Regarding the double U headlights, I guess these are Eagle Eyes? A couple of weeks back, when I was in the workshop getting coilovers installed on my GT, saw a Vento with the double U headlights. But the light throw was very poor. The high beam hot spot was lower then the low beam hot spots. It is quite possible that they were not aligned right, but do check with someone who has these lights installed and then finalize.

Originally Posted by vin_b

Hows your installation holding up Ganesh ?

My installation is holding ok. After Vinod replaced the projectors under warranty, the light spread of the replacement projectors are not that good as the ones he installed first. Also, I too have the problem of the lights getting misaligned if I go over a big pothole, or after getting the car back from workshop etc. But the misalignment is very small and hence I am managing with it. Also, once after a wash, there was fogging inside the lights. But it went away in a couple of hours, so I just ignored it!

The only reason I am living with these nuisances with the retrofit is the light output from the projectors is still many times better than the halogens. Otherwise, I would have gone back to the stock halogen lights

[vin_b]

Originally Posted by graaja

Oops. That is bad. This is one major drawback of retrofits, as they are not mechanically as stable as OEM ones. If the projectors have not completely fallen off, then I think it should be possible to tighten the securing nut from the backside without having to open the lights.

It hasn't fallen off completely but there seems to be lot of dust settled down inside and the cob ring has made a small scratch from inside when I went over the hump and hence mostly I will open it up and try to get better installation this time around from some other electrician

Regarding the double U headlights, I guess these are Eagle Eyes? A couple of weeks back, when I was in the workshop getting coilovers installed on my GT, saw a Vento with the double U headlights. But the light throw was very poor. The high beam hot spot was lower then the low beam hot spots. It is quite possible that they were not aligned right, but do check with someone who has these lights installed and then finalize.

Thanks for the headsup. I will check with my friend who has installed it

My installation is holding ok. After Vinod replaced the projectors under warranty, the light spread of the replacement projectors are not that good as the ones he installed first. Also, I too have the problem of the lights getting misaligned if I go over a big pothole, or after getting the car back from workshop etc. But the misalignment is very small and hence I am managing with it. Also, once after a wash, there was fogging inside the lights. But it went away in a couple of hours, so I just ignored it!

I too face fogging whenever I give my car for wash. I think its due to the sealant they use which isn't the correct way. I am planning to use butyl rubber strip this time around and hopefully it should fix the fogging issue.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by vin_b

I too face fogging whenever I give my car for wash. I think its due to the sealant they use which isn't the correct way. I am planning to use butyl rubber strip this time around and hopefully it should fix the fogging issue.

Yes. Butyl rubber tape would be a better option. But even if you use Butyl rubber tape. Still there is chance for fog as there is another opening at the place where the H1 bulbs are inserted into the projectors. A good rubber seal for this opening is also required.

[keeru]

Hi Graaja, Hope you are enjoying your ride with all the new upgrades.

BTW, last week while I was on a late night highway drive, the right HID bulb which was a part of the complete HID Kit from Vinod started to flicker for a while and finally gave up.

As I do NOT have a backup HID replaceable bulb, have been managing to drive only with one headlamp beam which is unsafe for both the driver and also for the oncoming traffic.

As the retrofit is still under warranty period, tried contacting Vinod for a replacement bulb, but he is not responding to the messages at all ( I've no problem to pay for a replacement )

I have found some good stuff (55w H1 HID) from aliexpress but it takes a month to get delivered in regular shipment.

At present I have a big concern running in my mind based on Vinod's attitude (seller ) towards his customers who have believed in his words & have payed twice the money the product deserves. Two friends of mine who have installed HID kits from him are also regretting.

Now I have two questions:
1. Is the length of the H1 bulb from Xenonplanet, the same as the one installed by Vinod? Will they fit on the existing Projectors?
2. Technically, can we install 35W CN bulbs from Xenonplanet and install on 55W existing ballasts?

Thanks,

[graaja]

Originally Posted by keeru

Hi Graaja, Hope you are enjoying your ride with all the new upgrades.

Hi keeru, Yes. The GT with the latest upgrades, especially the coilovers is awesome to drive, and I am thoroughly enjoying it

Originally Posted by keeru

Now I have two questions:
1. Is the length of the H1 bulb from Xenonplanet, the same as the one installed by Vinod? Will they fit on the existing Projectors?
2. Technically, can we install 35W CN bulbs from Xenonplanet and install on 55W existing ballasts?

1. Yes. The H1 CNbulbs I bought from XenonPlanet are a perfect fit for the projectors that Vinod installed.
2. I did some reading on this topic. Google "35W HID with 55W ballast". There are varying opinion on this. What I understand is: a 55W ballast and 35W bulb will work, but the life of the bulb will be shorter. Ideally, it is better to replace both the bulbs and ballasts. But you could try replacing just the bulbs.

Originally Posted by keeru

As the retrofit is still under warranty period, tried contacting Vinod for a replacement bulb, but he is not responding to the messages at all ( I've no problem to pay for a replacement )

At present I have a big concern running in my mind based on Vinod's attitude (seller ) towards his customers who have believed in his words & have payed twice the money the product deserves. Two friends of mine who have installed HID kits from him are also regretting.

This is really sad. From Vinod's words, even I had thought he was good with after sales support - at least for me, he did provide a replacement HID bulb and projectors. But after hearing your and your friends' experience, maybe his service quality has degraded. Call it a coincidence, today morning, I received an email from a friend in Erode who had also got projectors installed from Vinod that the shutter mechanism in his projectors have failed and Vinod is not responding to his calls. The same is the condition with another friend of him who had also installed projectors from Vinod. Of the many people I know who got their projectors installed from Vinod, only TBHPian batterylow is lucky to have his projectors working without any problem.

I am going to update my Projector Install thread with the quality of Lumens' systems support.

[graaja]

Update on Quality and Lumens' Systems Support:

Call it a coincidence, keeru's post and a mail from another friend happened on the same day, which prompted me to write this update.

It has been almost a year since I got the projectors installed by Lumens' Systems. I have had several issues with the projectors.

1. The wiring was very shoddy with rough joints insulated with common insulation tape. I had to clean up all this and do proper solder joints with heat shrink tube and cotton tape. This is documented in this post.

During the cleanup operation, I found that the sealing of one of the headlights was not proper. Vinod got this fixed when he visited Coimbatore to install projectors in a friend's car from Erode (more from this friend later).

2. Within a month of installation, the right side HID failed. Vinod sent me a replacement in a week's time. This is documented in this post.

3. Within three months of installation, the high beam in projectors failed. This is documented in this post. Vinod replaced these projectors under warranty. This took about a month. The replacement is documented in this post.

4. A few weeks back, I saw the left headlight fogged. It went away after some time, but this was after a car wash. Monsoons will bring more fogging I believe.

Summarizing, from my experience, I found the quality of the projectors from Lumens' systems to be totally lacking, but I did receive good after sales support. And to be fair, the replacement projectors are still working fine, though the light throw and alignment is not great.

But I found that not everyone was lucky in the after sales department. Keeru has been having problems with getting a replacement to the failed HID bulbs from Vinod. Also, I got an email from another friend who had installed projectors after seeing my thread. Excerpts from the email (I have removed the names for the sake of privacy, but the mail content is in-verbatim).

...Lumens Vinoth is not up to the mark when it comes to after sales support. Another person S**** from salem who has the similar projectors like ours complained me that his ballasts have given up and he is calling vinoth for replacement under warranty but he is not responding to his messages / calls. As am currently in the stock double barrel lamps with Osram night breaker unlimited bulbs my ballasts and harnesses are lying idle in the engine bay. S**** is asking my ballasts for a price so that he can use it on his Vento. G****h sir I don't mind about the costs but am worried about the quality and life time of the products. Vinoth is definitely cheap but all guys who have installed along with us myself, yourself, k****** from bangalore, k***** from erode, s**** from salem all are facing issues from the setup like high / low beam failure, ballasts giving up, bulbs giving up, alignment going wrong when vehicle dips suddenly in a pit or speed breakers...

I had mentioned earlier in the thread that the source from where Lumens Systems sources the parts are questionable (quoting my post below).

Brand name and source of the projectors:

Another point I would like to mention is that I do not know the exact source of the projectors. Vinod said they are NHK make. Even before I finalized the deal, I did a lot of internet search on NHK projectors. Unlike Morimotos that have a proper website, I could not find any proper website for the NHK projectors. A search would lead mostly to AlExpress or AliBaba pages. I could find some YouTube videos about NHK Q5 projectors, but no more information. There was one web site for NHK projectors.

http://www.nhkhid.com/index.php?m=co...lists&catid=85

But clicking on any of the product links just shows a "Page Not Found" error. Also, in the photos of NHK Gold Series projectors I had posted in post #3, one of the pictures shows "NHK" marking on the projector body, and the other does not. I did not see a NHK marking on the projectors that have been fit to my headlights as well.

Vinod told me that he sources his projectors directly from the manufacturer in China, and the projectors come in blank cartons and unmarked. So, in my opinion, the origin of these projectors is a big question mark. But I am totally happy with the performance of the projectors. I just do not know about the long term reliability.

I am just trusting that Lumens Systems will provide a good after sales support in case of failure. In case this does not happen, I already have a Plan B - get Morimotos and do a DIY job like Gannu did.

But from all the above experiences, I now can safely conclude that there is absolutely no quality in the parts, and there is absolutely no long term reliability.

So, please be aware of these facts before going for a retrofit.

[keeru]

Originally Posted by graaja

I now can safely conclude that there is absolutely no quality in the parts, and there is absolutely no long term reliability.

So, please be aware of these facts before going for a retrofit.

Thanks Graaja for bringing this up in a clean way.

My experience with Vinod from Lumens system is bad.

I can't say his products are cheap but definitely can say that his products are not worth the price he is charging for.

My suggestion to all the fellow members who plan to retrofit HIDs and projectors:

1. Avoid installers to do the work as they are very unprofessional, instead do a thorough research and do a DIY as gannu did. Otherwise, hire an installer pay him extra bucks and get it cleanly done under your supervision at your home.

2. Buy the HID kits from reputed sources, enquire a lot about the reliability of their products and then spend your hard earned money on them.

3. Without having after-sales support for HIDs kits installers, its a nightmare if something goes wrong especially when you are our of station. So ensure you get after-sales support (in\out of warranty period)

4. Never go with 55w HID kits unless it is really required. It reduces the life of the bulb\internal components of projector

After all of these, with my personal experience, I can say that, stay with the stock headlights + 90/100 relay (or) spend huge amount at one go, get OEM projector headlamps and stay peaceful.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by keeru

After all of these, with my personal experience, I can say that, stay with the stock headlights + 90/100 relay (or) spend huge amount at one go, get OEM projector headlamps and stay peaceful.

Totally agree with you there. With the quality of work done by the installers (at least most of them), and the unknown source and reliability of the projectors in the market, it is better to stay with simple 90/100W halogen upgrades, or spend big bucks and upgrade to OEM projector headlights.