[Aaron:)]

Sorry for the off topic post, but one thing that I have noticed is that Hyundai (and to a certain extent Maruti) are very smart when it comes to variants and features.

They seem to know exactly what the market wants, and they give them just that.

For example,

An i20 Sportz gets stuff like chrome door handles (both inside and out), rear view camera, those yummy diamond cut alloys, and other small things that contribute to the feel good factor, but it loses out on things like rear wash wipe and airbags.

A Dzire VDi/VXi has almost all the equipment that a ZDi/ZXi has except for ABS and airbags. A large majority of its sales are from this variant simply because it doesn't feel like a mid spec car. It's a similar case with other Marutis like the Ciaz. Look at the feature list and you'll know.

Basically, a mid spec Hyundai/Maruti doesn't make it glaringly apparent that your car is not the top end variant. The fact that you'll know that in case of an accident is a different story.

In comparison, a Jazz SV gets safety features like rear wash wipe, ABS, dual airbags, but loses out on stuff like alloy wheels, fog lamps and a few chrome/metal interior embellishments.

Coming to the Jazz vs i20 debate, I just can't get myself to like the i20's petrol engine. The Jazz i-VTEC, although sluggish at low revs really rewards you when you push it. But when it comes to diesels, I expect my 10 lakh rupee hatch to be very refined and this is where the Jazz loses out.

So my choice is-
PETROL - Jazz
DIESEL - i20

[Maverick1977]

To all those people who have complained about the i20's petrol engine I have 1 question - Have you lived with the car for a few days or at least driven it for say 100 odd km?

I too was of the same opinion but then after having lived with one I can say that its not that bad as it is being made out here. True that I haven't driven the new Jazz but the engine in the old Jazz which I have lived with for a good enough time was no speed bug either.

The torque on both cars is nothing to write home about, especially since I have lived with the 1.3 Multijet diesel for 6.5 years and that car brought miles of smiles when floored. However in that case both cars (i20 & Jazz) are disappointing, but when the revs build up the i20 is no slouch either.

Honda has used a very clever marketing tool called iVTEC & of course the results in the A0 category sedan speak for themselves!

[IPathan]

Originally Posted by Maverick1977

The torque on both cars is nothing to write home about, especially since I have lived with the 1.3 Multijet diesel for 6.5 years and that car brought miles of smiles when floored. However in that case both cars (i20 & Jazz) are disappointing, but when the revs build up the i20 is no slouch either.

Comparing 1.3MJD to 1.2 VTVT/iVTEC is bit unfair (Torque would always be higher in Turbo diesel compared to NA petrol engines, fair competition is with 1.4 CRDI/1.5 iDTEC - that's where 1.3MJD would lose out.

Having driven Elite i20 (1.2 petrol) for close to 15,000 km, I agree that it runs out of breath while quick highway overtaking however in the city where its 95% of life will be - its effortless to drive

My Vote - Elite i20

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by noopster

Absolutely. The Jazz appeals to the head rather than the heart, which belongs to the i20!

Oops, I actually feel the opposite. My heart is all for Jazz - I love the looks, I love the space, I love the flexibility, I love the i-DTEC for its drivability both in city and highways, I love the sporty black interiors with white stitching, I love the exterior design and also the lovely steering. In short, I love the fact that Jazz is the City hatchback - in all senses.

However, at this point the head comes in brings in the money + quality + overall value. At that point, the head brings in all the extra features of i20, points out that there is no visible cost-cutting and also the lesser price of i20. It concludes telling i20 is a much better value proposition overall. To be frank, I hate the beige in i20's dashboard - the beige usage in Grand i10's dash is much more classy IMO. Even the looks of i20, I prefer the i20 Active's frontal design. With respect to the rear, I like Mobilio's tail lamp design better than both Jazz's and i20's. I feel i20's tail lamp cluster's floaty, fluidic design is a slight deviation from the overall design language which is sharper.

As of now, I am not voting as the battle of heart vs head is still on and I need to take a back to back TD of either to arrive at a decision. But somehow I feel the search for my new car will continue.

Originally Posted by Maverick1977

To all those people who have complained about the i20's petrol engine I have 1 question - Have U lived with the car for a few days or at least driven it for say 100 odd km?

Well, I haven't tried the i20 petrol and hence have not commented on it till this point.

However, having driven Amaze + City for around 1000 kms, I feel the NVH levels and the amount of disturbance that it brings to the cabin looks over-stated. The fact however is both cars had clocked over 10k kms and probably the engine had become better by then. I never felt the vibrations on the pedals or gear lever to amount to a level that called my attention. It is only when I push the pedal hard and the rev counts above 3.5k, it was getting bad. Over the 1000 kms, I was driving with my wife, my 1 yr old daughter, my parents, my in-laws and cousins at different points. My daughter was sleeping peacefully for most of the 600 kms she was in the car. None of the other occupants complained about the noise or any sort of disturbance. City occupants were very happy with the comfort though.

I agree, it is not as smooth as a petrol, but it was not as bad as it is made out to be here. Well, at least, that is what I felt.

[Ryuu]

Originally Posted by Maverick1977

Circa February 2015 and I am in the market for buying a new car. I test drove the i20 at 3 different showrooms (no of times at each showroom is a secret!) & a few others before I settled into plonking my money on the Elite i20.

Absolutely agree that i20 has the best interiors out there. The only thing I'm worried about the i20 petrol is the performance of the engine. For a person whose occasional highway runs are more than A to B city runs, does i20's VTVT make sense? I have driven i20 in the city. It was a muted run. Neither sprightly nor sluggish. Now, I haven't test driven the Jazz. From what I hear, new Jazz's petrol is more sluggish when compared to the previous gen Jazz.

How does Jazz's 1.2 hold up against i20 1.2 on a highway?

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

In short, I love the fact that Jazz is the City hatchback - in all senses.

However, at this point the head comes in brings in the money + quality + overall value. At that point, the head brings in all the extra features of i20, points out that there is no visible cost-cutting and also the lesser price of i20.

Well I'm in the same boat. The Jazz just makes me want to overlook the i20's features and interior quality.

But the truth is that even though the i20 has better plastics and more features, the Jazz is pretty well built too.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Coming to the Jazz- it's 10.7L OTR Bangalore. Every time you get into the car - a dummy button greets you instead of the start - stop button.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The problem I am having is that I want to like the Jazz but Honda is trying it's best to make me decide against it.

Originally Posted by Parth46

C'mon man - how much did they save by not painting the fuel lid properly and those ghastly AUX/USB cables in the glovebox? And all this for something that costs more than 10 lacs OTR Bangalore.
Parth

I agree with all above comments.

What I wonder is: Why and how Honda failed to read these expectations of the market? Or do they have something else in the mind?

Will such things erode the value for investors in the long run?

[coolmel]

This warranted an exclusive thread, didn't it? My vote goes to the Jazz, hands down. Despite all its short comings, lack of kit, no smart entry, no start stop button, no reach adjustable steering, loud diesel, weak petrol, no driver armrest, no rear air con vents and proper dead pedal, this one is for the heart. Life is too short, make it awesome.

Shall upgrade it with better rubber and munch some happy miles together.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Honda is definitely a better company than Hyundai by a long mile. If one wants to compare other factors at least they are reliable and reason enough to get a Honda.

I personally did not like Hyundai myself and with the older i20, i10, Verna. I could never see myself getting any of the Hyundai's back then.

Now with the Creta and Elite i20, the Hyundai's are hard to discount and actually have some amount of appeal to them.

Secondly on reliability. I think gone are the days when Honda was a benchmark in reliability and Hyundai's were troublesome. The tables have turned and your notion is now out dated.

Just take a look at these threads to see how Honda are cutting corners which are clearly impacting their reliability. Infact check every new City ownership thread and you will find each one having niggles in the car from alternator belt noise, to door beading falling off and many more.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...e-anymore.html

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...a-service.html (Honda Amaze: Oil leak, engine seized! A bad experience with Honda service)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...rolocking.html (Design Flaw with Honda i-DTEC in Amaze & City: Susceptibility to Hydrolocking)

And these were just the 3 easy to find ones.

Then I tried to find some niggles which were common in i20 threads and I barely found any. Most owners were not complaining.

Here's the JD Power survey which shows both Honda and Hyundai are at the top when it comes to customer satisfaction with only Maruti ahead.

http://india.jdpower.com/press-relea...ndex-csi-study

Basically, it's an incorrect perception nowadays that Honda is a bench mark in reliability and Hyundai is far behind. Hyundai has caught up and now reliability is not a factor to distinguish between these 2 brands.

If you were talking VW or Tata it would be a different matter.

[sriramv.iyer]

Once the initial launch euphoria dies down, I expect Jazz to settle down comfortably below the i20 sales

Jazz petrol as I drove the previous version has non-existent low end torque. The engine had to be revved VERY hard to extract any usable power. I don't think a regular joe can be expected to drive like that. Everyone is going to complain of 'no power'

Secondly, the Honda diesel is extremely unrefined and noisy. Hyundai's 1.4 CRDi is creamy smooth. (I was owner of one)

In terms of handling, Hyundai and Honda are equally terrible. I have a 2011 Honda City (V), and I am no big fan of the handling. Honda can be placed marginally better in handling.

Hyundai i20 has terrific build quality and is very good looking too.

Honda has also priced Jazz higher than i20. Hyundai guys would be rejoicing! And why Magic seats only in top end? (not even in the automatic, IIRC)

CVT is the only differentiator since i20 doesn't have any automatic.

[harry10]

Voted for i20. Keeping aside the fact that i already have a City so Jazz doesn't excites me much, the truth remains i20 is a better product overall. Only if we need the extra boot space Jazz makes sense. Exterior and interior, Elite i20 is a winner.

Also, the premium Honda is charging is plain ridiculous and may become a big factor in its downfall.

Have never owned any Hyundai but if i need a hatchback i20 is my first choice by a mile.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by GTO

The 2nd-from-top variants of both are a mixed bag. The i20 Sportz (O) doesn't give you rear wash & wipe , passenger-side airbag or parking sensors. The Honda Jazz V variant gives you all of them (camera instead of sensors).

Give me 5,000 - 7,000 rupees and I'll fix the Honda's rear seat under-thigh support in the after-market in 24 hours. More support than you'll ever need. But you can't do that to the i20 Sportz' missing features.

Forget the V variant, Honda gives you dual airbags & a reversing camera even in the SV variant.

But the problem is the Jazz V variant is priced exactly the same as the Elite i20 Asta top spec! In which case it's even more difficult to justify the Jazz. For the price of the Jazz of the jazz V you get the top spec Asta i20.

It makes more sense to compare the Jazz SV to the Sportz (O) than the Sportz (O) with the Jazz V as they are priced.

[IPathan]

Originally Posted by Ryuu

Absolutely agree that i20 has the best interiors out there. The only thing I'm worried about the i20 petrol is the performance of the engine. For a person whose occasional highway runs are more than A to B city runs, does i20's VTVT make sense? I have driven i20 in the city. It was a muted run. Neither sprightly nor sluggish. Now, I haven't test driven the Jazz. From what I hear, new Jazz's petrol is more sluggish when compared to the previous gen Jazz.

How does Jazz's 1.2 hold up against i20 1.2 on a highway?

If highway runs are more than A to B city runs - Diesel should definitely be preferred over petrol primarily for better fuel economy (km to litre) / lower fuel price / better torque

Go through this thread before you take your pick

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...vs-diesel.html

comparing previous gen Jazz to i20 (petrol), i20 feels better at low-mid rpms while Jazz at high rpms (have driven previous gen Jazz and i20 back to back)

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Basically, it's an incorrect perception nowadays that Honda is a bench mark in reliability and Hyundai is far behind. Hyundai has caught up and now reliability is not a factor to distinguish between these 2 brands.

If you were talking VW or Tata it would be a different matter.

My notion is also the aam-junta's notion. Junta who barely finds time for forum talk! As far as reliability goes, all modern day engines are hard to fault, take proper care and do regular service, you will be fine. Then be it a Hyundai, Honda, or any brand for that matter.

Secondly, we also have a City in the family. No issues, niggles thus far. Some people do run into problems and post them here. There are many owners out there who maybe facing issues but don't post them(any brand for that matter). I do agree Honda is glaringly practising cost cutting, but who isn't?! I drive a car made by the worlds no.1 automaker with the most amount of cost cutting evident in all parts. Also the head, heart and more importantly intuition are more than enough to validate a purchase than all these awards.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by coolmel

My notion is also the aam-junta's notion. Junta who barely finds time for forum talk! As far as reliability goes, all modern day engines are hard to fault, take proper care and do regular service, you will be fine. Then be it a Hyundai, Honda, or any brand for that matter.

I haven't heard of aam-junta having this notion at all. Infact even guys who are not into cars buy a Hyundai for reliability after Maruti. Everyone believes Maruti is top followed by Hyundai. Honda is known to be premium with expensive spares. That's the notion I have seen people have.

And if the aam-junta had that notion then how does Hyundai manage to sell 10-12K Elite i20's and 8-10K Grand i10's consistently. On top of that remain the no. 2 manufacturer in India.

If the notion was of poor reliability, shouldn't their numbers be closer to Fiat? How are they selling if the junta has this notion that they aren't reliable.

3 folks in my office bought Elite i20 last few months. All non car guys. One guy said because of looks and styling. Other guy said looks, features and Hyundai is low maintenance after Maruti. Third guy said he got bored of Swift as he saw it everywhere and found the i20 was next best thing.