[rjainv]

TL;DR;

If you got your car serviced recently, do check the quantity of engine oil charged to you in the bill and compare it with the engine oil capacity mentioned in the technical specifications of your vehicle. You could have been charged 5-10% more than what your vehicle can actually take!


My Experience

I got my Jazz VMT Petrol (2015) serviced at Brigade Honda, Yelahanka Bangalore recently.

Basic stuff out of the way:

My experience with this service center has always been great including this time.

• SA will try to put additional stuff to make money for the service center, but will calmly remove if you say no. This time was no different, though they did manage to sneak in windscreen washer fluid pouches and I accepted it at the final bill since they had been very nice and accomodating in every other aspect.
• I had a minor issue with the bodywork they had done last time, and I appreciated how they took care of it this time with no fuss (the door side protector was incorrectly pasted leading to the driver's side front door getting jammed if the rear door was fully opened first
• They pointed out few things to consider getting changed but left it on my discretion without creating any pressure/scare.
• Overall very satisfying experience, and I'll happily go there again next time.

The billing

• Before service: During the initial estimated bill I noticed that the cost of engine oil was higher than what the online service cost estimator on Honda's website was indicating. I pointed this out to SA and his senior but they were pretty confident that their estimate is correct as it's all automated by Honda and all they do is to select the vehicle type. They asked me to check if online is estimating for 3.6L of oil as that is what Jazz Petrol takes. Unfortunately, online estimator doesn't give this level of detail, just shows the break up of cost.
  
  At this point while I was waiting for the car to be serviced, I just shot an email to Honda customer care to clarify on the discrepancy in engine oil cost between the online estimator and the actual estimate at service center.
  
  
• After Service: Later when I got the bill to pay, I opened the user manual of Jazz and showed to SA and his senior that it says 3.2L with oil filter change. They again pretended to be unaware of why it says so, and just asserted that its an automated bill and they charge this to every Jazz Petrol customer.
  I paid and moved on, and later in the day shot a follow-up mail to Honda customer care about 3.2L engine oil capacity vs 3.6L billed quantity.
  
  
• Followup: I got a follow up email quickly from HCIL, Greater Noida that my complaint has been registered, followed by call from SA from the service center.
  He said it was an error on their part due to mistake in selection and they would refund the amount.
  
  
  
• Outcome:
  I didn't get any satisfactory response from SA on if they are overcharging every customer in this way and if they continue to do so. He tried to dismiss it as one-off mistake.
  The CRM team from service center had the following to say.
  
  

  Dear sir,
  
  
  Greetings From Brigade Honda !!!
  
  This has reference to the trailing mail.
  
  Firstly we would like to apologize for the inconvenience and disappointment that you experienced in dealing with our dealership recently. Assuring that it will not repeat in future .
  
  As informed you that during estimation time there was error in our system while selecting the set menu due to that the quantity was increased and whatever the difference amount will be refund to your account.
  
  Once again We would like to extend our apologies for the inconvenience caused further, I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. We are actively working to improve our service levels and your feedback has proved to be a valuable input.
  
  For any further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

  I pointed out that even my earlier service bills also indicate the same overbilling issue and there is a consistent pattern. On probing further if they are overcharging other customers too, they ignored that question and gave a standard response
  
  

  
  Greetings From Brigade Honda !!!
  
  This has reference to the trailing mail.
  
  Firstly we would like to apologize for the inconvenience and disappointment that you experienced in dealing with our dealership recently. Assuring that it will not repeat in future .
  
  As discussed with our service advisor regarding the refund amount , our service advisor was claimed internal on your invoice and he transfer the amount to your account .
  
  Once again We would like to extend our apologies for the inconvenience caused further, I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. We are actively working to improve our service levels and your feedback has proved to be a valuable input.
  
  For any further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

After the above exchange, I got a mail from HCIL Noida to confirm if I am satisfied with the resolution. I have not responded to it yet, but I am just going to say thank you as I don't think they are going to share any more details on whether is one-off or prevalent malpractice and if they are taking any steps in general

Regarding your concern, dealer team has sent you a written communication. Hope the issue is resolved and there is no pending concern currently.

Thanking you for the patronizing Honda and assuring you at the best of our products and service at all times.

Was this a one off thing?

I don't think so. I could find atleast one more reference of another BHP'ian having pointed this out to Honda and got the refund.

Originally Posted by Nohonking

An update further, sharing below the response received from Honda on the 2 issues(rusted tie rods and incorrectly billed for the quantity of engine oil at 2 different HASS). While I appreciate them and the HASS for having taken care of my concerns, without commenting I leave it completely unbiased on the audience to comprehend their reply to me. Thanks.


PS: Purged out the undersigned name from the quoted text to maintain privacy.

So seems to be repeat in case of Honda, though to give credit where its due, I figured this out due to online service cost calculator that Honda has made available (and is done by few other car manufacturers as well)


I looked at if I can find other instances of overbilling in the bills shared by other bhpians and I could easily see many examples across different manufacturers.

Honda
Charged for 3.4L against 3.2L capacity

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post4946335 (Honda Jazz : Official Review)


Maruti
Ciaz Diesel - billed 3.3L vs actual 3.2L
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5108893 (Maruti Service is cheap - A myth!)
Celerio Petrol - billed 2.9L vs actual capacity 2.8L
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5108893 (Maruti Service is cheap - A myth!)

Hyundai
Venue - 3.7L billed vs actual 3.6L capacity
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5108893 (Maruti Service is cheap - A myth!)

Elite i20 - billed 5.5L vs actual 5.3L capacity
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5112557 (Hyundai Elite i20 : Official Review)

Mahindra, Tata
could not find any bill with higher engine oil quantity than capacity

Skoda
4.5L billed vs capacity of 4.3L
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4159278 (Skoda: Steps towards Transparency - Online Service Cost Calculator & Owners Manual)
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post3850310 (My Skoda Octavia Ambition, TDI DSG)


I did find a lot of bills where engine oil quantity was correct (except Skoda -in my limited search time)!


Conclusion

Unlike all other extra charges like windscreen wiper fluids, underbody/engine coating, AC treatment etc, this is overcharging isn't explicit and easily goes unnoticed!
Earlier service center used to carry plastic cans for engine oils which came in fixed sizes larger than car's engine capacity. Hence there was an excuse to charge for the complete can (and in some cases gave leftover oil as prasad to the customer) as return gift. However today almost every service center buys in barrels and has hoses run till service bays to dispense exactly the amount needed by a particular vehicle ! So no such excuse any more for charging more.

Going by conservative maths, I was charged about Rs 300 more, and I think there would be an avg of 50 cars daily. that translates to almost half crore Rupees additional income in a year for the service center by just overcharging/wrong billing. That is about 5 top end Jazz cars right there !


Comment for fellow bhpians - do check your service bill to see if you were overcharged!
I am in particular interested if anyone else got their car recently serviced at Brigade Honda Yelahanka if you were overcharged or correctly charged !

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing! Will be adding this to our news section as well as "hot threads" to warn other car owners.

Really sucks that, even after going to authorised dealers (supposedly more trustworthy than your corner shop), one has to be blatantly cheated like this. Where are the ethics? Why can't authorised dealers earn a fair buck & charge for just what product / service was used? This is blatant theft.

Over-billing, upselling, fake services and what not. Got to protect your own hard-earned money.

Originally Posted by rjainv

He said it was an error on their part due to mistake in selection and they would refund the amount.

Just wondering why 99% of dealership billing errors are always in favour of their own self. Never ever is a miscalculation favouring a customer.

[livyodream]

After oil drain, they might use 200-300ml fresh oil and do a quick flush?

I got my swift serviced 2 weeks back and billed 3.5 Ltrs for the same. Do not have have the service book handy but internet says 3.1 Ltrs

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by livyodream

After oil drain, they might use 200-300ml fresh oil and do a quick flush?

I got my swift serviced 2 weeks back and billed 3.5 Ltrs for the same. Do not have have the service book handy but internet says 3.1 Ltrs

Flush doesn't require fresh oil to be put it. Flush has to be added in the old engine oil only. And yes the swift needs 3.1L engine oil.

[adisan]

On a related note:

Man brews up fake engine oil, nabbed (the New Indian Express report)

Fake engine oil worth around Rs 10 lakh was recovered from the main accused.

The engine oil was being sold using stickers of reputed engine oil companies. The accused, who sold fake engine oil not only in the city, but almost in every district across Karnataka, were pocketing Rs 100-Rs 150 per litre of oil.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by GTO

Just wondering why 99% of dealership billing errors are always in favour of their own self. Never ever is a miscalculation favouring a customer.

Because, as a Customer, we pour out when we feel we're cheated & keep mum when we're at an edge. Customers speak out only when the service is delivered as expected rating a good *.

[sagarpadaki]

The overbilling the quantity of fluids and greases are followed in many service centers across brands. What I have observed in Bangalore

Hyundai -> Bills 199 rupees for a pouch of caliper grease for almost all cars that come in for periodic service. One pouch is enough to grease caliper slide pins of 10 cars. And they do not return the excess grease back to the customer since they would be using a common pouch opened for multiple cars. For gear oil, they have 2.5L cans. Most cars in Hyundai stable take in 2L of gear oil. But are billed for 2.5 litres.


Tata -> Billed 750ml more for coolant during replacement. The coolant used was Ready to Use and not the concentrate to be mixed with distilled water. Had to point out the capacity mentioned in the user manual for them to revert back the bill to the recommended quantity

Maruti -> Bills engine oil to the nearest 0.5L . If car takes 3.2L, bill shows 3.5L. Excess oil not returned to the customer.

Only way we can avoid is by being aware and vigilant. But majority of customers have no idea of the amount of the fluids their cars take in. Heck, most of the people I know have not even read through the owners manual.


So, the service centers make hay with most customers. Unethical, but most service centers do not care.

[windrider]

This is a very common occurrence, especially when it comes to two wheelers. A lot of service centers dont even replace the engine oil if the vehicle has not covered much distance between the service intervals , they just top it up. I noticed that I was being charged MRP for a bottle of 1 litre engine oil when my bike has only 900ml capacity. Plus they usually just top up oil from huge metal drums but will charge you the price printed on a bottle of engine oil. Same thing for other consumables like brake fluid, fork oil, spark plugs etc. Once while giving my bike for service, I had intentionally made a mark on my spark plug since I knew it was time for replacement. They billed me for the same ,but when I checked, the spark plug hadn't been replaced. When I pointed this out to the SA, he and the other guys at the svc were adamant that they had replaced it, at which point I showed them the markings I had made on the spark plug. Que oscar level acting from the people at the service center. The service manager also showed up and said it was a genuine mistake, which I find hard to believe since they were all so sure the work was carried out. That was the last time I got my vehicle serviced at an authorised svc. Its FNG for me all the way. I buy whatever parts the guy asks me to bring and get the work done in front of my own eyes. Agreed its not possible for everyone, or if you want to keep your warranty if you own a European car.

[hserus]

It is entirely possible they over filled the oil.

The oil filter will take a good 250-300 ml extra oil and people sometimes top the oil sump beyond the maximum shown on the dipstick.

[myavu]

I had a similar experience back in 2011 with my Beat.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2593060 (Chevrolet Beat : Test Drive & Review)

They filled Mobil 1 5W-30 Synthetic Oil against Total Quartz 7000 GMO, 5W30 Semi-Synthetic Oil without my consent. The cost was more than double.

But GM handled the situation pretty well. They replaced the oil and refund the balance amount.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2593335 (Chevrolet Beat : Test Drive & Review)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2594830 (Chevrolet Beat : Test Drive & Review)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2598405 (Chevrolet Beat : Test Drive & Review)

[rjainv]

Originally Posted by hserus

It is entirely possible they over filled the oil.

The oil filter will take a good 250-300 ml extra oil and people sometimes top the oil sump beyond the maximum shown on the dipstick.

Atleast Jazz manual clearly says 3.2L including filter.
So that isn't the case in examples of Jazz above.

https://www.hondacarindia.com/owners...06278046-16251

[hserus]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

Flush doesn't require fresh oil to be put it. Flush has to be added in the old engine oil only. And yes the swift needs 3.1L engine oil.

Once you flush an engine (and DONT do this unless your engine has a ton of sludge in it from oil not being changed for far too long, your engine isn't a toilet) what you do is to fill the cheapest mineral oil that suits your engine + a new oil filter once, run the engine for a short while and then drain it out.

That way, any residual dirt in the engine along with all leftover solvents from the engine flush will be completely removed. If you have this stuff especially the leftover flush mixing with your fresh engine oil, that ruins the oil and makes it thin from the solvents and contaminated from remaining residue.

Originally Posted by myavu

They filled Mobil 1 5W-30 Synthetic Oil against Total Quartz 7000 GMO, 5W30 Semi-Synthetic Oil without my consent. The cost was more than double.

They did your car a favour even if it didn't suit your wallet, that's an excellent oil.

[MT_Hyderabad]

100 ml extra is understandable as they pour the content out from a big drum into a measuring can and some loss during transfer and some sticking to the can has to be considered. However, 400 ml is obnoxiously high!

Originally Posted by hserus

Once you flush an engine (and DONT do this unless your engine has a ton of sludge in it from oil not being changed for far too long, your engine isn't a toilet) what you do is to fill the cheapest mineral oil that suits your engine + a new oil filter once, run the engine for a short while and then drain it out.

That way, any residual dirt in the engine along with all leftover solvents from the engine flush will be completely removed. If you have this stuff especially the leftover flush mixing with your fresh engine oil, that ruins the oil and makes it thin from the solvents and contaminated from remaining residue.

I discourage using oil as a flush residue extractor. Small amount of residual flush+oil does not cause any damage and if one is too particular to remove that small amount, I would recommend blowing compressed air in the engine, nothing more.
My car has a 7.5 L oil capacity, I cannot waste valuable resources on earth to save my engine from 100 ml of residual flush + oil.
I always go with your first recommendation -Never flush your engine. As I believe the best flush designed for your engine is the engine oil. Interval is also tested, confimed and recommended in your service manual.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I always go with your first recommendation -Never flush your engine. As I believe the best flush designed for your engine is the engine oil. Interval is also tested, confimed and recommended in your service manual.

Engine oil regularly changed means you don't need a flush. But in case you do have to do a flush due to a clogged and poorly maintained engine, the first flush will bring the oil out dark as tar, and then when you add cheap mineral and flush it a second time, the oil still comes out dark grey to light black from the suspended dirt.

[H_Dogg72]

Have been recently charged for 2L of gearbox oil whereas my car should take in only 1.7L.
Haven’t brought it up with VW yet.