[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Besides India need VW more than VW need India. So they have the upper hand. Thus Skoda, being owned by VW may feel due to the small market of DSG Superbs, it is not worth the time and effort to make an official recall. Cheers! Rohan

Am I reading it correctly? India needs VW more than VW needs India. As djpeesh mentioned, VW is not recalling the in-famous DSG and even have guts to launch new car with the same is just because of lack of law enforcement by government.

And small market of DSG equipped Superb? Look at Toyota. They just now recalled Toyota Corolla for a faulty airbag mechanism by third party vendor, that too from 2004 manufactured cars. As per Toyota, impacted cars in India are no more than 1000 units. Whereas, SKODA is selling around 300 Superbs every month. If Petrol DSG is just around 50 units a month, it's a big number by now. And please remember that in this class, customer will be going for AT more than MT.

Originally Posted by djpeesh

I beg your pardon but why does India need VW more than VW need India? I find it highly preposterous that we need to bend over backwards to keep VW happy, and I dont think its true. We just have lax law enforcement and a will to do absolutely nothing.

+100. VW is getting away just because of lack of law enforcing agency.

[rjalihal]

Originally Posted by djpeesh

I beg your pardon but why does India need VW more than VW need India? I find it highly preposterous that we need to bend over backwards to keep VW happy, and I dont think its true. We just have lax law enforcement and a will to do absolutely nothing.

Wrong. India gains a lot more by VW opening shop than they will gain. Think about the millions of dollars that comes to our nation and the jobs created. Come on, China can get VW thrown out anyday and still survive. We on the other hand are a wuss nation and don't have the guts to do that. Hence we always get taken for a ride. Read the papers more often.

Cheers!
Rohan

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

And small market of DSG equipped Superb? Look at Toyota. They just now recalled Toyota Corolla for a faulty airbag mechanism by third party vendor, that too from 2004 manufactured cars. As per Toyota, impacted cars in India are no more than 1000 units.

+100. VW is getting away just because of lack of law enforcing agency.

Things like airbags, brakes, steering are safety related items and companies are more likely to be proactive in addressing any concerns related to these so as to not risk public litigation.

That logic does not apply for transmission

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Things like airbags, brakes, steering are safety related items and companies are more likely to be proactive in addressing any concerns so as to not risk public litigation.

That logic does not apply for transmission

What I meant was, however the small number may be, VW/Skoda should have recalled this DSG Box. And please tell me, what happens if this box fails when you are overtaking and transmission is busted. (I know that this DSG fails more in stop-go traffic but can't rule out any condition).

By the way, Toyota recalled certain batch of Corollas (India only) way back during early 2003 - 2004 timeframe. Reason: the side leather cladding or door pads were turning pink due to adhesive used. This was attributed to warm weather of India. Is this safety issue? They sent letters to all impacted Corollas (I am pretty sure the number was not even 4 digits since it was not even a year into Corolla's India launch). I know this because, my car was impacted.

[Mpower]

I'm not aware of the details of the Corolla issue, but what I am pointing out, 'generally speaking' ..........are the different levels of importance/priority a typical large company will assign to a recall-worthy issue, as observed in a market like the US. Case in point, the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco.

DSG failures have been happening for many years and none of them resulted in a life threatening event.

Please note, I am not supporting VW's stance ! I am as surprised at their cavalier attitude towards Indian customers as you are

[drpudhi]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Wrong. India gains a lot more by VW opening shop than they will gain. Think about the millions of dollars that comes to our nation and the jobs created. Come on, China can get VW thrown out anyday and still survive. We on the other hand are a wuss nation and don't have the guts to do that. Hence we always get taken for a ride. Read the papers more often.

Cheers!
Rohan

I think i don't subscribe to your line of thinking. VW and any corporate house for that matter, don't think of India for charity. VW gains much more from us than us from them. At the end of the day they work for profit, and they don't really bother how that comes. And the biggest reason these giant corporates come to India is because we have the biggest wealth that no other country has. CHEAP MANPOWER.

[Sutripta]

VW (and other hitech auto companies) have been armtwisted by the Chinese over and over again. Yes, they need the Chinese market, so grin and bear it.

In India too, they do not have a smooth ride. But that is due to our ad hoc nature of functioning, rather than specific targeting.

Re: DSG and China, VW (actually the European auto industry) have a very interesting take on it. And reading it, I got the impression that they actually believe it, rather than it being a spindoctored planted story. This was around two weeks back. Unfortunately, I can't find it.

Regards
Sutripta

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by Mpower

Things like airbags, brakes, steering are safety related items and companies are more likely to be proactive in addressing any concerns so as to not risk public litigation.

That logic does not apply for transmission

Agree fully. Lets be clear that the DSG box has failed in every market in the world, including in Europe (albeit at a lower rate than in hot weather markets). There has been no recall anywhere except in China, and that too after state owned CCTV took up the issue as part of its periodic shakedowns of foreign companies operating there.

I however do agree that VW owes its customers an extended warranty - which has been officially announced in China, the US (10 years) and Russia (5 years). As per the experience of a few Team BHPians (including yours truly), Skoda has been willing to extend the goodwill warranty at least slightly. I have not come across anyone who had to pay for a mechatronic failure yet. But it would certainly put this concern to bed (and help sales and resale values) if they formally came out with a 10 year - 100,000 mile warranty or something similar.

[vikrantj]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Wrong. India gains a lot more by VW opening shop than they will gain. Think about the millions of dollars that comes to our nation and the jobs created. Come on, China can get VW thrown out anyday and still survive. We on the other hand are a wuss nation and don't have the guts to do that. Hence we always get taken for a ride. Read the papers more often.

Cheers!
Rohan

So in your opinion govt puts millions of dollars before safety on Indians.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by vikrantj

So in your opinion govt puts millions of dollars before safety on Indians.

There is NO safety issue with the DSG. Loss of drive is an inconvenience, not a safety issue. Most DSG failures happen while vehicles are parked. If there was a safety issue, VW would have had its pants sued off in the US,Australia, France and other markets where DSG failures are reported.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Wrong. India gains a lot more by VW opening shop than they will gain. Think about the millions of dollars that comes to our nation and the jobs created. Come on, China can get VW thrown out anyday and still survive. We on the other hand are a wuss nation and don't have the guts to do that. Hence we always get taken for a ride. Read the papers more often.

Cheers!
Rohan

And our market holds absolutely no attraction for VW, correct? And if I understand right, India (the wuss nation) will somehow collapse if VW pulls out? Hmmm...interesting....we should all empty our bank accounts to buy VAG group cars because, god forbid, if they do badly in the wuss market and decide to exit, the economic cost will be too heavy for us to bear.

Originally Posted by Hayek

Agree fully. Lets be clear that the DSG box has failed in every market in the world, including in Europe (albeit at a lower rate than in hot weather markets). There has been no recall anywhere except in China, and that too after state owned CCTV took up the issue as part of its periodic shakedowns of foreign companies operating there.

I however do agree that VW owes its customers an extended warranty - which has been officially announced in China, the US (10 years) and Russia (5 years). As per the experience of a few Team BHPians (including yours truly), Skoda has been willing to extend the goodwill warranty at least slightly. I have not come across anyone who had to pay for a mechatronic failure yet. But it would certainly put this concern to bed (and help sales and resale values) if they formally came out with a 10 year - 100,000 mile warranty or something similar.

I agree. VW says they've fully tested the transmission and the problems are a thing of the past. But still they are expecting customers to take them at their word, especially when it comes to the newly launched Polo GT. If they are so sure of the tech and the fixes they have made to it, why not offer a 10-year warranty? It's not unheard of in our market - Ford does on the 6-speed Powershift transmission.

[rjalihal]

Originally Posted by StarScream

And our market holds absolutely no attraction for VW, correct? And if I understand right, India (the wuss nation) will somehow collapse if VW pulls out? Hmmm...interesting....we should all empty our bank accounts to buy VAG group cars because, god forbid, if they do badly in the wuss market and decide to exit, the economic cost will be too heavy for us to bear.

I never did say this nation will collapse if VW pull out. You have a vivid imagination my friend. Be my guest and buy whatever you want. Anyways I do not want to get into a debate over something so minute. But I still say that VW give China more importance than they will ever to India. This may (or may not) be a factor as to why there has not been an official reaction to the DSG issue here. Yes our wuss nation has lax laws and further contributes to this. And yes our wuss nation will never be able to force VW or any company to fall in line and they can do business as they like/please. And yes I will continue to call my beloved motherland a wuss nation because face it we are one.

Cheers!
Rohan

[sharninder]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

I never did say this nation will collapse if VW pull out. You have a vivid imagination my friend. Be my guest and buy whatever you want. Anyways I do not want to get into a debate over something so minute. But I still say that VW give China more importance than they will ever to India.

I don't any to get into this debate but isn't this true for every company ? China as an automobile market, and specifically a luxury automobile market is probably 10 times the size of India. Most companies give more importance to china than they give to india for that same reason. Granted our laws and their implementation is lax but that is not why companies take us for granted. They take us for granted, because we don't matter much. There are limited cars available in this country and we have to buy what's here. If you think china has good laws and no corruption you're mistaken.

[ACM]

If the DSG box does not warrant a recall as it is not really a safety issue, then Skoda could atleast have given an extended warranty of 10 years to all DSG units (predated to when they were first introduced) even today. At least that would have given people a confidence to live with Skoda vehicles. I just do not use my Laura DSG in "S" mode or Tipronic due to a scare with the Mechatronic unit once that was luckly resolved with a remove and reinstall effort but would have normally involved an expense of Rs. 1.5L. Infact the service centre has advised me not the change the oil (we had done a 3L top up during the time it gave errors last time.) since they are just not sure if the vehicle will continue to run normally (like now) if I do get it serviced. One does not buy such an expensive vehicle to handle major components with kid gloves.

This kind of extended warranty of 10 years would not really cost Skoda too much as they would need to act upon it only if the devices failed but not doing even that indicates that they have poor Sr. level staffing in Servicing, Marketing and overall Management.

[StarScream]

A lot of people say that the DSG problems are not a safety issue but read this experience from England -
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=3408953