[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I read you talked about taxes in the first post as well. I'm saying that is not the right way to do it. Its like adding taxes on cigarette. Does it help?

Without even citing an analogy, I am sure that taxing diesel cars would bring down sales. Diesel cars sell more because it is cheaper to run in the long run. If that advantage is brought down, sales would drop.

On second thoughts (or maybe just to keep the diesel crowd amused), how about reducing taxes on petrol cars instead?

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Without even citing an analogy, I am sure that taxing diesel cars would bring down sales. Diesel cars sell more because it is cheaper to run in the long run. If that advantage is brought down, sales would drop.

On second thoughts (or maybe just to keep the diesel crowd amused), how about reducing taxes on petrol cars instead?

Well I'm not too optimistic to be very honest. We - the people of India - have plenty money. Taxes never really bothered us much when going big on cars.

A diesel car already costs more than 150k Rs. over its petrol counterpart in some cars. Did that ever deter the buyers from buying the Swift? So its not really the saving by diesel. I don't think many of the users really recover so much by saving on fuel to warrant the 1lakh + premium already demanded by diesels.
It also has to do with the performance - torque & fun with turbo.

The good move is that diesel is deregulated. That is the way to go. I hope the next step is to tighten the emission norms. Bring in BS5 and BS6 quickly. Don't bend against the pressure from auto-makers. If that raises fuel price - it is absolutely fine. But then - it will directly help mother nature to breathe easier compared to costlier cars with taxation. At least thats what I think. I never saw anyone turning back on a Furtuner because the tax + RTO is a lot.

Additionally - A lot of us - the educated lot - are very keen towards CNG. Me included. It is greener, cleaner & a lot more efficient. Give me at least a few fuel stations where I can fill it up by waiting less than 30 minutes and I'll get a CNG car. There are literally NO stations to talk of. This is where the improvement is to be done if we are really willing to go green.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

First of all, I'm not at all promoting pollution. I'm totally IN for greener transport solutions. So please don't get me wrong. I'm trying to put a different perspective as I don't always like to agree with the West's decisions.

I read you talked about taxes in the first post as well. I'm saying that is not the right way to do it. Its like adding taxes on cigarette. Does it help?


There is no reason why we should always try to be in sync with the West. There are many more vital things in which we aren't.


Then do we need the V10/V12 Ferraris or Lamborghinis that the West makes and sells in huge numbers? Or the American gas guzzlers? If we are going to say that diesels are bad because the West is not using them - we should also look at what the west is using instead. Are their cars any greener by not using diesel? I'm pretty sure simply by gut feeling that the <1.6L diesels in India currently aren't far too worse than the ~2.5L or more cars used regularly in the US when we get the usage pattern + mileage + fuel consumption into consideration.


I agree - we must put the infrastructure in place for a greener diesel. If that raises the price - YES that is valid and must be paid by the customer. This is the right way to go. Not keeping the bad diesel and adding tax on cars. Tax doesn't make the planet greener is my point.


We agree 100% on it my friend .

That my friend was a googly! When did this become a east vs west argument from a petrol vs diesel one?

Just a few things here - I don't agree with the profligate ways of the west either. My original post was referring to what you say about diesel - people (Europeans) are discovering that their really isn't any way to scrub diesel emissions to completely remove its harmful effects (hence the "there is no such thing as clean diesel statement.")

Of course, in the end we agree, so all's well that ends well.

[Sabyasworld]

I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.

[pareshraheja]

Originally Posted by Sabyasworld

I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.

I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified

[gsurya]

Now this is the way to go, eventually. France plans to ban diesel cars to target pollution.

http://www.motorbeam.com/2014/12/new...medium=twitter

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by gsurya

Now this is the way to go, eventually. France plans to ban diesel cars to target pollution.

http://www.motorbeam.com/2014/12/new...medium=twitter

Already posted at 2-3 times and discussed plenty . As ever, there are always proponents and opponents of the same.

[humyum]

Imagine this, I got my Swift Diesel in 2008 at on road 5 lakh 35 thousand for a VDI. The petrol counterpart costed 60 thousand less compared to my diesel model. I have run the car for 1 lakh 5 thousand kilometer by now. According to my calculations, at around 45 thousand kilometers, I recovered the extra money I had spent on the diesel, now since the past 60 thousand, its running on BONUS. BONUS blood BONUS Not to mention, the brilliant value that I will get for the car when I sell it.

Diesels over long term IMO make more economic sense. Either in resale value or the running cost over a long duration.

[gsurya]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Already posted at 2-3 times and discussed plenty . As ever, there are always proponents and opponents of the same.

Sorry, been traveling & out of touch here

Mods please delete to avoid repetition.

[i10]

Originally Posted by humyum

Diesels over long term IMO make more economic sense. Either in resale value or the running cost over a long duration.

Depends a lot on the running too

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by Sabyasworld

I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.

Originally Posted by pareshraheja

I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified

Insurance and resale values are fixed in this sheet. I'd suggest you pick up the resale values from carwale as an indicator, put a lookup there and you'll need insurance to be dependent on years as well.

[karavadi143]

After the latest discounts that car manufacturers are offering due to low sales in December and with minimal difference in cost of petrol/diesel , petrol cars make more sense. Some petrol variants come with a waiting period more than the diesel variants now 😊

[humbleroadster]

Originally Posted by pareshraheja

I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified

Really appreciate the efforts. But forgive me for wondering if this can really be generalized.
I'm guessing a separate spreadsheet with entirely different set of logistics will have to be made for a place like Goa, where the price difference between the two fuel types is almost Rs 10/-, petrol being the cheaper fuel!!
To top it all, when the commute is essentially limited to narrow roads what is the best that one may achieve w.r.t FE? Even if it's lets say 17/18 kmpl, does it really justify getting a diesel engine on a small/mid segment car given the price difference and "not too long" daily commutes?

I love the diesel engines car makers are coming out with. And am in no way being disrespectful about them. Just that the distance, traffic, fuel price conditions differ by a vast margin than Bombay/Pune/Delhi or any other major cities.

HR.

[shankar.balan]

Fuel prices were important to me at an earlier stage when I was driving a lot more.
Nowadays, I am barely able to clock 800kms per month, if that.
I would be quite happy with a nice, powerful, torquey petrol car, just as I am with my nice, powerful, torquey diesel car.
Fact is, that what I now crave is great comfort, superb ride over these horrible potholes, excellent ground clearance, great handling dynamics in most driving conditions, great safety and security and most certainly that extra zip and power which is exhilarating.
This is why I love my Yeti for all the above that it delivers to me in spades.
While I also like my Dads I20, I find that it simply doesn't have the necessary "juice" - it completely runs out of steam after a certain point and more irritatingly, it just doesn't have that extremely necessary low-end torque, to help handle the poisonous city traffic and slow, low gear movement.
I really don't care if both Petrol and Diesel become equal in terms of price. In fact, I would positively welcome it as a move by Government. However, there should definitely be parity across all states and union territories because after all, it is one country. I absolutely abhor the policies of the government which allows Delhi which is probably amongst the richest cities, to enjoy such a hugely subsidised fuel price!

[jessie007]

News in Economic Times today

No plan to ban diesel cars in Delhi: Government

NEW DELHI: The government today said that at present it does not have any plans to ban all diesel cars in Delhi and convert them into CNG-driven vehicles.

In a written reply, Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar informed Lok Sabha that the Environment Pollution (Prevention and Control) Authority (ECPA) for the National Capital Region in in its report in the year 2007 in the matter of a writ petition to the Supreme Court had recommended that use of diesel in personal transport vehicles in the city of Delhi, need to be stopped.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst