[mukul32]

I don't understand what is the Indians' new obsession over form factors all about. These compact sedans and 'cross' hatches have almost nothing like real sedans and SUVs about them. And anyways, they are only made to give this so called 'sedan feel' or 'SUV feel' to the car! How will a hatch with a stub on the back feel like a sedan? Or how will a hatch with some plastic cladding, or some more plastic cladding and a spare on the tailgate (Avventura, Ecosport) feel like an SUV? And the fact is, while these concepts should have been expected to go flop, they are the newest market trends, and the new targets for manufacturers to develop!! I mean, still there have been really good cars like the Amaze, Xcent or the Ecosport, but the Amaze's dashboard and Ecosport's interior space are nothing to write home about. And really, how much of a difference does the form factor make? Is the indigenous Xcent better than the world class i20? Or is the Amaze better than the Jazz? Or the hatchback-on-stilts Ecosport better (as an SUV) than say, the Duster? It is a hoot to drive, but then the Fiesta is still much better.
The real question is though what appeals to people about the sheer form factor of the car, over it's function? I guess it's related to the fact that a car is still something aspirational in India, and buying one still has a sense of prestige about it. That is supported by the way these cars (and actually the entire segments) are marketed and hence perceived as 'prestigious' or 'adventurous', more so over their 'lesser' hatchback twins (fathers?). But anyways this still seems kinda stupid to me that, where on one hand Indian buyers are getting really aware and smarter and want better standards from their cars, on another hand the same people fall for these indigenous concepts over the usually better quality hatches.
And this trend is seriously amplified at the high end level, and good cars like the A-class and 1-series have had to really suffer against these compact luxury (so-called) SUVs and sedans.
Come on guys, a stub on the back doesn't make a hatch a limo. And a spare on the back doesn't make it a hummer. And nothing (apart from some badass garage somewhere downtown) can make it so. And no one's gonna laugh at you if you step out of a 25-lakh hatchback. Actually, you may cry at yourself after sitting in the back of a 30-lakh compact SUV based on the same hatchback.

It might also have been possible that presence of cars like the legendary Mini Cooper or the A-Class & 1-series, could have helped hatchbacks shed off their 'chhoti gaadi'/ 'cheap-car' image; but instead came cars like the GLA and Countryman (now come on, who buys a mini Countryman out here? And more importantly, why??!) and spoiled the party of the hatches. Audi actually didn't even bother to bring the brilliant A3 hatchback and just launched the sedan and crossover. The Volvo V40 which is again a very good hatchback, sells here only in a 'cross-country' variant. Instead of saving the identity of hatchback, these guys are killing it further. And right now, only the 'elite' i20 is doing well from the hatches (Don't count the entry level segment, only for the lack of options. I'm sure a crossover at that price would have managed to kill the Alto as well). Now I think only an all-new Suzuki Swift with a punchy engine and lots of space, (or a Honda Jazz with a sensible price and a frugal diesel) can come to the rescue like a god, and save the hatchback in India. And hope it doesn't get a 'cross' version as well!! ☺

[volkman10]

Automakers roll out SUV/ CUV's in battle for fast-growing segment. Most players cut down sedan production to accommodate the UV's.

Because of robust market demand, SUVs have generated huge volumes for automakers. Take Honda. The Japanese automaker sells 15 models in China. Three of those -- the CR-V, Vezel and X-RV SUVs -- generated 40 percent of Honda's China sales last month.

As foreign automakers such as General Motors and Nissan introduce low-priced SUVs, Chinese automakers are launching upmarket models. Great Wall, China's leading SUV producer, will reintroduce its flagship Haval H8 SUV at the Shanghai show.

Honda Motor Co. says it plans the worldwide debut of a concept SUV customized for the Chinese market. It will be fitted with Honda's FUNTEC powertrain and infotainment technology

BMW Group announced last week that its plug-in hybrid SUV, the BMW X5 xDrive40e, will make its global debut in Shanghai.

In India, expect a slew of products in the 'Cross' variant to dominate in 2016. The race has just begun, now a very challenging time for the Sedan segment.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...utonews-weekly

[volkman10]

BMW goes the CUV mode - BMW Urban Cross coming in 2017 .

Tentatively known as the Urban Cross and 1-Series Sport Cross, the model will measure approximately four meters long and have unique styling with a coupe-like roofline. The latter will impact the crossover's practicality as it will reportedly limit luggage space to a scant 330 liters


http://www.worldcarfans.com/11504139...mw-urban-cross

[blacksport]

If that is a trend, then the buyers are seeing some value, isn't it?

Who in the world decided that Sedan IS the form factor all cars should be in, OR that SUVs should be gigantic? What if I want the practicality of a tall car, but don't want to carry all the bulk around? What if I want a 3 box car but don't want a long one? Should I buy something that suits my requirement? Or buy a huge/long car that is only fit for the highways?

Who decides that the Ecosport is too small for an SUV or Amaze is too short for a sedan? Most people here drives C segment sedans like City and Ciaz yet mock at Amaze/Dzire/Xcent. In the USA a Corolla or Civic is a compact car while a Fiesta is subcompact. Here a guy driving a compact and a subcompact mocks cars smaller than theirs. Funny, ain't it?

CUVs, CSUVs, crossovers, compacts all have a market. Why don't you all, set aside the snobbishness, relax and let the market speak?

[nik hill]

I agree that we all have different requirements and preferences.
What is happening off late is that in a market deprived of choices earlier the customer is getting some innovative options some courtesy government regulations and some due to new found confidence in the buying capability of Indian customer.
For eg indigo cs dezire xcent amaze zest all are cheaper courtesy govt.
Ertiga opened up a new segment for big families.
Ecosport is meeting the requirement of a urban suv.
I20 meets a premium hatchback requirement.
So in nutshell to each one his own.

[mukul32]

Originally Posted by blacksport

If that is a trend, then the buyers are seeing some value, isn't it?

Who in the world decided that Sedan IS the form factor all cars should be in, OR that SUVs should be gigantic? What if I want the practicality of a tall car, but don't want to carry all the bulk around? What if I want a 3 box car but don't want a long one? Should I buy something that suits my requirement? Or buy a huge/long car that is only fit for the highways?

Who decides that the Ecosport is too small for an SUV or Amaze is too short for a sedan? Most people here drives C segment sedans like City and Ciaz yet mock at Amaze/Dzire/Xcent. In the USA a Corolla or Civic is a compact car while a Fiesta is subcompact. Here a guy driving a compact and a subcompact mocks cars smaller than theirs. Funny, ain't it?

CUVs, CSUVs, crossovers, compacts all have a market. Why don't you all, set aside the snobbishness, relax and let the market speak?

It seems you get me wrong. I am not at all against a proper compact sedan or SUV. But what I did comment upon, was against a 'Hatch-with-a-boot' or a 'Hatch-on-stilts'. Not a compact sedan or crossover. Not even against a proper compact sedan or crossover that is based on a hatchback. But, I was against a hatchback that is modified to be conceived as a sedan or crossover. In fact, I believe these (genuine ones) compact cars will gain more importance with the increasing congestion and increase in prices of fuels. Can you please tell me, which so-called compact sedan or SUV in India is a proper product on its own, and not simply an iteration of another car? Whatever you did say in favour of compact cars is absolutely true, and they do offer some of the advantages of both classes of cars. But there should be some genuine development of these cars, and not indigenous modification to increase profits. Thus there is mostly an apparent variety of choices in the market, while the real variety is much smaller. (So is the market of these cars really their own, or is it diverted from the market of conventional cars?) What is even more irritating is that in many cases, even though these cars are clearly same as their hatchback parents, they are marketed and positioned totally differently -sometimes desperately so- as completely new cars. And as for me, I would seriously appreciate proper compact cars like the Toyota RAV4 in India. But they won't make economical sense. And I am not interested in mocking any car, but I think proper criticism is necessary where it's due.

[mukul32]

And I would also like to add I didn't exactly question the personal appeal of a PARTICULAR product among the compact cars. I was speaking more in general, in a broader view, about their CONCEPTS, and the position, identity and relevance of these concepts in the market. Not the final products. That way, the Amaze, Ecosport and Xcent etc. particularly make great buys. But we can't deny the fact that they aren't great as concepts.
(PS: I didn't mean the 'cross' hatches here. Nothing about them seems to impress me.)

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by mukul32

But what I did comment upon, was against a 'Hatch-with-a-boot' or a 'Hatch-on-stilts'. Not a compact sedan or crossover. Not even against a proper compact sedan or crossover that is based on a hatchback. But, I was against a hatchback that is modified to be conceived as a sedan or crossover.


What is even more irritating is that in many cases, even though these cars are clearly same as their hatchback parents, they are marketed and positioned totally differently -sometimes desperately so- as completely new cars. And as for me, I would seriously appreciate proper compact cars like the Toyota RAV4 in India. But they won't make economical sense. And I am not interested in mocking any car, but I think proper criticism is necessary where it's due.

The point he made was that even if it was same product with added plastic cladding and different paint scheme, the customer sees higher value and thus pays higher price. I think he has a very valid point.

Why should we blame the manufacturers?
I said something on the lines of CUV becoming a fad. Yes so what?
There are so many fads in this world today, and everyone is reaping money by milking the consumers.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by mukul32

It seems you get me wrong. I am not at all against a proper compact sedan or SUV. But what I did comment upon, was against a 'Hatch-with-a-boot' or a 'Hatch-on-stilts'. Not a compact sedan or crossover. Not even against a proper compact sedan or crossover that is based on a hatchback. But, I was against a hatchback that is modified to be conceived as a sedan or crossover. In fact, I believe these (genuine ones) compact cars will gain more importance with the increasing congestion and increase in prices of fuels. Can you please tell me, which so-called compact sedan or SUV in India is a proper product on its own, and not simply an iteration of another car? Whatever you did say in favour of compact cars is absolutely true, and they do offer some of the advantages of both classes of cars. But there should be some genuine development of these cars, and not indigenous modification to increase profits. Thus there is mostly an apparent variety of choices in the market, while the real variety is much smaller. (So is the market of these cars really their own, or is it diverted from the market of conventional cars?) What is even more irritating is that in many cases, even though these cars are clearly same as their hatchback parents, they are marketed and positioned totally differently -sometimes desperately so- as completely new cars. And as for me, I would seriously appreciate proper compact cars like the Toyota RAV4 in India. But they won't make economical sense. And I am not interested in mocking any car, but I think proper criticism is necessary where it's due.

Take one look at the Skoda Rapid and tell me, do you see something bad in it? I don't. It was made by taking a Polo and adding a boot to it.

As much as I hate an Amaze (for the way it looks), there are many who still hate the looks but loves the space that it provides.

Heck, even the Civic has a hatch and sedan version. Manufacturers reuse platforms/body-shells/panels/interiors so that they can save money. Both we and the manufacturers benefit.

Even with more expensive cars, if you think that every car is conceived from scratch, you have mistaken. Most of them are an iteration of other cars.

What matters is not HOW the manufacturers build their cars, it's whether the cars provide value to the customers - whether it is utility or image does not matter.

[mukul32]

Originally Posted by blacksport

Take one look at the Skoda Rapid and tell me, do you see something bad in it? I don't. It was made by taking a Polo and adding a boot to it.

As much as I hate an Amaze (for the way it looks), there are many who still hate the looks but loves the space that it provides.

Heck, even the Civic has a hatch and sedan version. Manufacturers reuse platforms/body-shells/panels/interiors so that they can save money. Both we and the manufacturers benefit.

Even with more expensive cars, if you think that every car is conceived from scratch, you have mistaken. Most of them are an iteration of other cars.

What matters is not HOW the manufacturers build their cars, it's whether the cars provide value to the customers - whether it is utility or image does not matter.

@blacksport, again you are getting into individual cars. I was speaking about the CONCEPTS, not the PRODUCTS. Yes, I personally don't see anything really bad about the Rapid, but say if I would've owned an S-Class, I would've found a lot of things bad about it. So my finding anything in that car doesn't mean anything. Anyway, VW group have managed to create quite good cars in the Rapid and Vento (Actually was going to give their example in my first reply itself, but thought it would be off-topic because they are proper sedans, not compact ones). But then it is (Vento) based on a global car, and meant for a lot more markets than just India. So they have to keep the standards high. And they aren't any cheap for what they offer. What I mean is, just check out the more Indianised car based on it, (the rumoured sub-4m Vento), and see if you feel the same. And as I had said about the positioning, while the Vento is internationally branded simply the Polo sedan, here Volkswagen have tried to distance it from the Polo, by marketing it as a new, different car (As I said, apparent variety). The Rapid, well ours doesn't even sell outside India, and theirs (international) sells here for 20 lakhs!
And I know very well that lot of more expensive cars worldwide are based on other cars and share lot of components (Just look at the range of the MQB platform from VW group itself!!). If I would not have been aware of such an obvious fact, I wouldn't belong to Team-BHP at all!
And regarding reusing components, that's totally fine, till a limit. Not the way, say, Renault-Nissan are doing it here (badge engineering).
And that image does not matter is your personal opinion. Because clearly, the market seems to think otherwise. Image is really important here in India. In fact image is the primary reason the compact sedans and crossovers exist. Image can make (entry level compact luxury cars, Toyotas), or break (all recent Tatas, Kizashi, Sonata) a car, regardless of how good or bad or (in)expensive it is. Same way, value is also to some people. Not everyone.

[volkman10]

En-cashing on the booming Crossover trend Mercedes will enter this segment through the Smart brand.

The chic Smart range could grow to offer an SUV-style Smart car based on the ForFour to take advantage of the worldwide boom in SUVs and crossovers.
The German giant is eyeing up the possibility of expanding into the fashionable sector. But there won’t be a pumped-up ForFour in the immediate future, due to packaging issues of the car’s rear-engined, rear-wheel drive layout.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/smart/9...k-on-the-cards

[volkman10]

Will Crossovers in India help to tide the projected slow sales of UV's?

With the high pitch battle between the upcoming Crossover launches from Maruti and Hyundai, will the market shake up to the demand in Crossovers and continue this for the sub 4m UV's?

But, sales are likely to be tempered by the withdrawal of excise duty benefits, narrowing gap between petrol and diesel prices and declining rural demand.

M&M ,Hyundai Motor India, Ford Motor Company, General Motors and Maruti Suzuki India will introduce utility vehicles in a market where their share of personal vehicles is about 20 percent, compared with 11-12 percent three years ago and 35-40 percent in other emerging markets and South East Asia. Even so, the companies themselves acknowledge that the prospects may be limited.

The expectations are echoed by research firm ICRA, which forecasts a 5-6 percent growth for utility vehicle sales in the short term and 8-9 percent in the medium term, a far cry from 52 percent growth of FY13.

Peak of UV in 2013


Declining Trend




http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...nches/47820389

[volkman10]

Crossovers/SUV's to dominate the upcoming launches.

Most companies are planning new launches -Dominated byMini Crossovers, Crossovers, SUV's , would be interesting how this impacts the Sedan and hatchback markets.



http://www.financialexpress.com/arti...-sales/103515/

[Dr.Abhi]

Calling a crossover "A hatch on steroid" will always be a subjective criterion. If body on frame rwd car is a criterion to be an suv, than all the cars of 60s and 70s were suv including the humble premier padmini and ambassador. Just like evolution, the boundaries between categories are blurring giving rise to products which inherit good traits of the two categories leaving behind the not so needed one. Example, mobile and tablet giving rise phablets. Similarly for Indian conditins, where road conditions cant be predicted for next 100 meters, having good ground clearance is a desirable trait with imposing stance helping you to get clear lane ahead. I myself ran over a big stone in a hilly area which was kept on road because of an accident few turns ahead but went unscathed because of higher clearace of the ecosport. Has it been any other low slung hatch or sedan, it was an on the spot casuality at 4 in the morning. Similarly, during my drive to ladakh i spotted a couple of veritoes and polos parked road side with oil oozing underneath, whereas my ecosport with its raised belly and taut suspension, never once it kissed the mother earth, making my trip a pleasent memory. Good approach, departure and ramp breakover angles also set the crossovers apart from regular hatches. Availability of an optional awd to a crossover makes a daily office goer "a mudslugger" on weekends. True a crossover can never crawl over large stone boulders like a " body on frame" suv, but with better fuel efficiency and easier driving dynamics, crossover are here to stay, with whatever the name you like to call it.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Abhi

True a crossover can never crawl over large stone boulders like a " body on frame" suv, but with better fuel efficiency and easier driving dynamics, crossover are here to stay, with whatever the name you like to call it.

The Crossover CUV is here to stay for sure. Consumers in India are image conscious, like a little "adventurous feel", need to carry a medium size or small family and luggage plus some extra bits and pieces and for them, these CUV's are just perfect!

Of course they will succeed because the manufacturers have realised what a consumer wants.

Purists may crib but let them! The fact is that the great Indian consumer is voting for smaller CUV type vehicles with their wallets and are doing it in spades!