[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by kiku007

However logical or practical the offerings of the manufacturers be or the choices the customers make, the 4M rule killed DECENT performance petrol engines (Sub 10L) in this country and gave birth to ridiculous looking cars which only capitalized on people's aspiration and nothing else.

Thought of reviving this old thread to have our discussions once again. You had one very valid argument on the performance aspect of it. However, now Ford has joined the party and added some spice to the compact sedan segment.

So, point number 16 - Performance.

The 1.5 diesel has turned out to be quite a scorcher with 0-100 times reported close to that of the VW warm hatch. And then a 1.5 DCT even though tuned for economy still is better than anything else in the price bracket - save for the GT TSi. Yes, Aspire is no match for a Classic Fiesta 1.6. But it looks like it can stand up to the Classic Fieta TDCi which it seeks to replace.

Feature loaded, good performance, good pricing, looks acceptable too IMO, although its still a stubby boot. What say? Still the same harsh hatred for the segment?

PS- Segment still has a fascination for silly names. Wish they had named it Figo Ikon instead of Aspire.

[deetjohn]

I can't help but think, it maybe the 4m rule which moved the cars (or their cost) up a segment. Because of the unscientific discounting of cars less than 4 meters and penalizing of cars more than 4 meters, a new weirdo segment got created which pushed out of the normal C segment and thus the D segment sedans into more expensive territory. And since UVs always command a premium over sedans, their natural price point got shifted too.

The 4 meter compact sedans made immense sense for manufacturers as both the development costs and the production costs were much lower and manufacturers pushed them aggressively. The development cost because, most of these manufacturers had the respective hatchbacks in the market already and they could share the R&D cost. And it is no secret that the production cost for a compact sedan is much more competitive than the hatchback it is based on. Moreover, because of our mass market's fascination for sedan, they could sell these at a premium too.

I believe, we would have seen the bigger sedans at a lower price point had it not been for these 4 meter compact sedans.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

PS- Segment still has a fascination for silly names. Wish they had named it Figo Ikon instead of Aspire.

With the huge burden of notorious service costs associated with brand 'Ikon', I don't think that would have been a good name.

Ford should have dropped the Figo moniker and just kept it Ford Aspire. Its a much better name than DZire or Xcent along with their weird spellings.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

With the huge burden of notorious service costs associated with brand 'Ikon', I don't think that would have been a good name.

OT: I can think of an entirely different reason. The brand Ikon was associated with some serious driving pleasure (especially that 1.6 petrol) and I don't think the newer Ford machines can really match that connected feel

[RSR]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

However, now Ford has joined the party and added some spice to the compact sedan segment.

So, point number 16 - Performance.

Point number 10 (Safety) now sees some developments as well.

The Figo Aspire provides 6 airbags in the Titanium+ variants. In the C2 sedan segment, only the Hyundai Verna provides 6 airbags on its SX variants!

If the Vento DSG variants offer ESP along with 2 airbags & ABS, then so does the Figo Aspire Titanium AT!

Great thread, CrAzY dRiVeR!

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by vb-san

OT: I can think of an entirely different reason. The brand Ikon was associated with some serious driving pleasure (especially that 1.6 petrol) and I don't think the newer Ford machines can really match that connected feel

Oh! You should drive the Fiesta (Global). It comes pretty close.

And that 1.6 Rocam unit coupled with that excellent short ratio gearbox was something else on the Figo. I haven't driven many petrol engines which can match it in response at the lower revs.

That's one more thing this stupid small cars rule devoid us of. Higher capacity engines which were amazing to drive, but wasn't that far away in FE either.

[kiku007]

Excellent point Crazy driver. I haven't driven the Aspire yet, but the on paper specs for the 1.5L Diesel looks really promising. Welcome move by Ford.

As does the addition of segment first Safety features.

Does this make me warm up to the Aspire? No. Why?

1. The hatchback Figo looks much neater and hopefully would come at least a lakh cheaper.
2. I think we are getting a raw deal with these 4M Compact Sedans. Add 12% excise duty to the Aspire and compare it to the Global Fiesta. I believe, if Ford didn't have to invest on this 4M Compact Sedan, they could have priced the Fiesta competitively and offered a competent SEDAN.

Also talking about performance, Ford still doesn't have a worthy petrol engine in it's lineup considering the ROCAM and DURATEC lineage. The Ecoboost is just an over-hyped trophy engine.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

I believe, we would have seen the bigger sedans at a lower price point had it not been for these 4 meter compact sedans.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

I can't help but think, it maybe the 4m rule which moved the cars (or their cost) up a segment. Because of the unscientific discounting of cars less than 4 meters and penalizing of cars more than 4 meters, a new weirdo segment got created which .

This isn't 'unscientific'. Carefully thought out policy to promote smaller vehicles and efficient engines.

The CRDI tech with turbo charged diesels that make small capacity diesel engines attractive on both power and fuel efficiency came about due to the policy tilt of Europe towards diesel fuel. Which seems to now have reversed to petrol.

We will get awesome turbo charged petrols at lower costs with economies of scale, the VW 1.2 TSI and ecoboost being the first out the door.

As mentioned elsewhere this is a transition phase where ultimately we will get platforms designed from the ground up to be less than 4m.

The Jazz, Elite i20 being the first of these.

I expect SUVS, MUVS, JEEPS, VANS, HOT HATCHES to rule in this segment and sedans to ultimately shift to the c2/D segments altogether.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by drsingh

This isn't 'unscientific'. Carefully thought out policy to promote smaller vehicles and efficient engines.

It is unscientific in a way when you consider that it's really unclear on what the objective is.

If one wants to improve air quality, discount cars & their variants based on emission figures or kmpL, subsidize replacement of old polluting vehicles, stop overloading of commercial vehicles, remove the toll plazas etc.

I can only laugh if people think 4M cars helped the traffic situation on roads. Shaving off 2-5 inches from a car isn't going to help anyone.

The Government's job is to provide proper infrastructure (Read Roads, pavements, traffic signals) and efficient public transport. These laggards couldn't do either (For which you and me are paying money) and made the Auto Industry a scapegoat with such senseless rules.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

The segment has been hated the most for killing design aesthetics. Time to put an end to those arguments?

TATA Zica and VW Ameo are pretty good looking cars in their own respects, and not just in comparison to compact sedans IMO.

The segment will continue to evolve.

[kiku007]

Kite looks smart! The Ameo's proportions/looks are far from perfect. Kudos to TATA for taking the effort to design something aesthetic within the space constraints.

On a related note, so we have the Aspire with Aston Martin front and the Kite with Jaguar rear.

[born_free]

Can you be an enthusiast and yet buy a Compact Sedan?
You need a family car with good boot space, safety features, yet also want a car that handles well and gives that nice acceleration in a limited budget.

Ford Aspire diesel variant is one such car which have all safety features (6 airbags) and 0-100 timings under 10 seconds. In comparison a C2 segment car like Honda City cannot match neither the safety aspect nor the performance of this ford car which cost almost 3 to 4 lakhs less.

[Vikram Adani]

Couldn't agree more. Test drove the City Auto - Hated how it drives, horrible rubber band effect from the CVT and also dislike the look of the interior. Also drove the Baleno CVT - same problem. Did not like the way it shifts cogs. Put your foot down, and all noise and no go. Also found the interior to be tacky and did not like the black interior. Finally bought an Aspire DCT for 9L OTR. Loved the DCT, decent pep with the 1.5L and also liked how i can use android auto or play music videos on my cellphone plopped into the provided dock. Its been 6 months and loving it so far. Did not make send for us to spend 3 or 4L on a city (& WAG was ruled out after having owned a skoda in the past) more to get a bit more legroom and a bigger boot, but settle for something that is crap to drive.

[King_pin09]

Well, let us all admit that the compact sedan segment is still in its nascent stage and with more established players betting in with big guns, this segment is only bound to grow better with each passing day. I am pretty sure that the sub compact cars of say 2020-2021 would be much more mature, good looking and complete than those existing today. The Ford Aspire, in my opinion, is a good example of development in this direction.

So does it mean that I would buy one, well, maybe not.

A compact sedan despite having the potential to overcome the design and appearance issues over a period of next few years, would however still remain confined to the limited dimensions (and Engine size), thereby limiting its utility. Compact sedans nevertheless are no bargain. They are priced at par or even exceed those of a complete sedan such as Etios, Sail etc., and in some cases they land seriously close to C2 sedans just see the price of an Ecosport for clarity. All in all, money saving, which forms the very purpose of having a chopped car in place, is put to a question. So, when I am already spending northwards of Rs one million, why not shell out another 50k odd and have a full size car? The advantages are innumerable (of course looking beyond a mere comparison in number of airbags and ABS); just see the cargo hauling capacity of a Etios vis-à-vis a Dzire. The way in which a Linea handles vis-à-vis that of an Ecosport. The leg room available for both rows on the Ciaz vis-à-vis those on an Amaze. All these factors contribute to a pleasant travel experience and any compromise on any aspect would only affect adversely. Needless to state, a 500 Kms long journey in a CITY/ CIAZ is much more pleasant and enjoyable (and less tiresome) than in a Dzire or an Amaze with similar features, engines and number of Airbags.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Its been about 3 1/2 years since this thread came out, and met with a lot of controversy during the time.

However - although three years doesn't seem like much, there seems to have been a big change in the way enthusiasts (including BHPians) look at the compact sedan segment -

1. More people DZire (or atleast can live with the idea of ) a compact sedan -

Quoting my old post -

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The segment is still at a naive stage and most of the products are derived either by adding to their hatch siblings or subtracting from their sedan counterparts. I think the next generation cars in the segment might turn out to be more proportionate and good looking designs.

The biggest transformation in the segment was that of the DZire. This ugly duckling was the main reason why many people hated compact sedans with a vengeance. With the transformation of the DZire into something way more palatable, more people seem to have found peace with their 4 meter sedan designs.

The transformation of the Amaze seems to have caught a lot of attention on the forum as well - the car went from being a Brio with a three box boot, to an independent design by itself -

Not fair to forget the TATA Tigor as well, which almost had no complaints from most people on the design aspects -

2. Amazing ease of use -

Diesel + CVT on the Amaze.
AMT on both petrol & diesel - Mid and top trims of DZire.

These seem to have caught some fancy as the small and premium hatchbacks mostly miss out on some of these options.

3. Spacious enough, yet compact enough

What you'll like:

• A great looking Dzire…and an all-rounder too

What you'll like:

• An all-rounded compact sedan & one that's well-priced too

4. Much better boot space -

Gone are the days of cramped bootspaces. Most of these offer very usable space these days, with the exception of the VW. Might not offer flat folding seat capability of the hatchbacks, but nevertheless should be good enough for the weekend luggage.

Elite i20 - 285 litres.
Jazz - 354 litres.

DZire - 378 litres.
Xcent - 407 litres.
Tigor - 419 litres.
Amaze - 420 litres.

Yaris - 476 litres.
Verna - 480 litres.
City - 510 litres.

5. C segment moves up the price ladder -

Most of the C segmenters now cost between 10L to 17L on road, or more depending on your state of residence, whereas the compact sedans tend to top out at 10L OTR.

6. Sales better than ever -

- DZire is almost consistently the highest selling car in India.
- Amaze is the first Honda car to sell in a five digit figure.

Couple of noteworthy posts that piqued my curiosity -

I was seriously looking for an Automatic SUV like Crysta, Hexa, XUV by taking big loans, eventually settled for the Amaze Automatic Diesel with the money on hand, as i thought this should be enough for me.

I am in the market looking for a replacement of my 2 cars (XUV and Punto) and my original thought process was: replace them with a premium SUV. I even TD the BMW X1 and Merc GLA and was about to finalize on Fortuner AT AWD when I noticed the Amaze

Booked the diesel CVT today. Decided to sell the Fiat and keep the XUV in (and loanwallahs out) for another 30 months.

[Doge]

Another car I would like to add for the enthusiast is the Ameo diesel. Makes the Polo irrelevant unless you want the 1.0 or the AT. The Comfort line "GT TDI" is a good value for enthusiasts on a budget. I really enjoyed driving it.