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Old 28th January 2020, 11:02   #106
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

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Originally Posted by TwoCents View Post

Tata was little late to the CSUV game with Nexon, very late to premium hatchback game with Altroz and is going to be insanely late in Creta segment but with launch of Hornbill this festival season, I think they are on time.

Too late? This is the biggest misconception we seem to have on Teambhp. "Too late" is a term used very often here to describe latecomers but let's look at where some of the early birds are.

1. Sumo pioneered MUV segment and was all the rage in early 90s to mid-90s. Then Qualis came and later Innova and we know where Sumo is today.

2. Safari was the first diesel SUV. Again completely eclipsed by latecomer Scorpio.

3. Indigo, the first sub-4 metre sedan. All gone now thanks to later arrival Dzire.

4. Indica, first diesel hatchback. lost to Swift diesel.

5. Duster. First mini SUV. Lost big time to 3 years late coming Creta, and now to Seltos.

6. Ecosport. First sub-4 metre mini-SUV. Lost big time to Brezza.

7. E20, Veritos and other such underpowered, low-range EVs form Mahindra and even TML. They will capitulate to Tata's own Nexon, MG ZS and Kona.


IMO, there is no such thing as early bird advantage. In fact, later arrivees (sic) can look at the shortcomings of existing ones , better it and offer a better deal.

Sure, brand name helps and I know people have brand biases and certain brands are preferred over the others. Certain brands are forgiven for even big lapses while certain others are put under microscope for scrutiny. Still, less-popular brands can work hard to get there. Renault is one such. Their Triber is surprisingly spacious, well-built and feature-laden for the price it comes at. But the challenge lies in not going to sleep over their initial success, like they did in case of Duster.
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Old 28th January 2020, 11:35   #107
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

I guess the intent of Tatas here is not to let the customer go out of the showroom once he enters. Small hatch? we have Tiago. SUVish hatch? We have H2X. Bigger hatch? Here's Altroz. Compact Sedan? We have Tigor. CSUV? We have Nexon. So long as customer's budget is not getting crossed, he will have multiple models to select from. And with platform architecture and associated part commonization, I don't think it's very expensive for Tatas to proliferate models.
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Old 28th January 2020, 11:47   #108
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
IMO, there is no such thing as early bird advantage. In fact, later arrivees (sic) can look at the shortcomings of existing ones , better it and offer a better deal.
Agree. Maruti Suzuki have been late in many segments which they went on to lead[Eg-Baleno, Ciaz] because they presented their product as VFM+other benefits of owning a MS car which a lot of people in market were looking for.

Now TML atleast since Tiago-Nexon time have started to do most things right, they are late no doubt, but there is still a long time in Indian market for small hatch, CSUV, premium hatch. So if they are able to present value to customers in terms of pricing, ASS, features, engines etc., there is a lot of upside.
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Old 28th January 2020, 12:03   #109
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Early to market always has advantages. Late to market mean higher barrier of entry and lost opportunity.

There was a company called Hero Motors under another arm of Hero Group(Hero Motors, not Present Hero Motocorp). Hero motors best known for Hero Puch and few other mopeds, scooters). Honda had tie up with Kinetic for scooters, best product, Kinetic Honda and Bikes with Hero Honda, CD100, CD 100SS, CD Delux and infamous Splendor.

Honda wanted to have its way. Even Suzuki and Yamaha wanted their own ways knowing that Indian market is huge. Every one started breaking ties.

Lets look at the history. Honda first severed ties with Kinetic. Kinetic never recovered. Because Kinetic did not have a plan B.

But severing ties with Hero Honda was a big risk for Honda. So what they did was something shrewd. They started own company HMSI and started making first geared scooter, which was a flop but automatic scooter Activa clicked. They did not break ties with Hero Group until Honda was fully established with Activa product line and they had setup sales and show rooms every where.

Meanwhile, Hero Motors, a part of Hero group had no relationship with Honda. They could have started a equally good product similar to Activa, either their own or some other foreign technology and sold along with showroom which were selling Hero Puch 3G and other scooters. No, They did not!! Hero group chairman repeatedly kept saying Honda will never part ways with them. And finally when relationship was broken, Hero had to start their own R&D from scratch and had to pay royalty to Honda for few years even after break up, for the engine they were using in the product line.

Meanwhile Activa had reached selling over 3 lakhs per month. Hero came out Maestro, which was almost similar to Activa but failed. TVS came out with Wego, but failed. Only TVS Jupiter came close with decent numbers but even today Activa is a well established brand selling 3 lakh units a month.

If some one tells me that only Honda can manufacture product like Activa and not Hero motors or TVS, then I will say, go and drink a cup of tea. Hero Motors, TVS and our own bajaj could have manufactured a product far better than Activa. But they failed to see the new product coming in their own backyard and dismissed and lost the market share.

If hero Motors had woken up when Honda was selling at around 30,000 or 40,000 units month of Activa, probably they would have started a development of product and would have launched when Activa was selling around a lakh per month. No! They waited till marriage was broken, took over one year and then launched Maestro, when Activa was selling over 3 lakhs a month consistently for years. These companies Bajaj, TVS, Hero virtually gave the market share on a silver platter to Honda, Free... Period.

Maruti Omini: You call it unsafe, junk, tin can, but sold minimum 5000 units month, No advertisement, No promotion, Nothing. Not even design changes for years, until safety standards kicked in and the product was removed from sales.

Wagon R: This vehicle never had competition, Tall boy design, Call it unsafe, ugly, what ever. Always sold over 10,000 units a month. Never a flop. No one could come with a comparable product.

Swift and Swift Dzire diesel: What was Tata doing when these products were entering market?

Early to market always has its merits. You come first, make mistakes, customers will forgive you. Because even they don't know about that. But if you are second or third, immediately people will start comparing, bench marking. Meanwhile, the first one who came early, would have recovered the cost of development, dyes, manufacturing capital expenses, will now reduce price to kill the competition. Now the second or third guy will not only try to capture market share but also fight price war and recover his development expenses.


This is why Tesla is successful even where established players are failing.
This is why Maruti is successful where Tata and Mahindra failed.

Manufacturing is a whole different ball game. It's business and it's brutal..
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Old 28th January 2020, 15:57   #110
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

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Originally Posted by pogo0120 View Post

Early to market always has advantages. Late to market mean higher barrier of entry and lost opportunity.

If hero Motors had woken up when Honda was selling at around 30,000 or 40,000 units month of Activa, probably they would have started a development of product and would have launched when Activa was selling around a lakh per month. No! They waited till marriage was broken, took over one year and then launched Maestro, when Activa was selling over 3 lakhs a month consistently for years. These companies Bajaj, TVS, Hero virtually gave the market share on a silver platter to Honda, Free... Period.

Again, I maintain early start doesn't give you forever lead. The 7 points I have shown in my post above are numbers and undisputable facts. That is not debatable. It is there for us to see. All the pioneering cars on the left have yielded big time to the late entrants mentioned on the right. How and why it happened may be debatable.

Coming to Activa, I agree with you. May be market dynamics of 2-wheelers is different. Dare I say, more conservative? When it comes to buying a scooter, 8 out of 10 folks head to nearest Honda showroom. When it was time to replace my 10-year old Activa, I replaced it with a Dio, which is the same wine in a sleeker bottle. So, I see your point. Actvia in scooters and Innova in MUV segment have been ruling roost for long. But, nothing stays forever. Change is the only constant in this world. Kia Carnival may finally dethrone Innova , if Kia prices it right. Already, Ertiga, XL6 and now Triber have taken some of its sales. Activa may be a king today but I won't be surprised if a rival creeps on it and pulls ahead of it. Remember Bajaj Chetak scooter? Even today my father wonders why Chetak died.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 15:57   #111
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Tata Hornbill (H2X) sub-4 meter SUV teased

Tata Motors has released a teaser image of the production-spec sub-4 meter SUV called Hornbill (H2X).

Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-h2x-hornbill.jpg

The production-spec Hornbill is likely to borrow styling cues from the H2X concept which was showcased at the 2019 Geneva Motor Show. The teaser partially reveals the diamond-shaped tail lamp on the car.

The new sub-4 m SUV is expected to be based on the ALFA modular platform, which made its debut in the Altroz hatchback. It could use the 1.2-litre, naturally aspirated petrol engine from the Tiago paired with either a 5-speed manual gearbox or a 5-speed automated manual transmission. An all-electric version could also be introduced at a later date.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 22:12   #112
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Tata Hornbill , The sub-4 meter SUV teased again
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Old 4th February 2020, 22:29   #113
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Interiors of the Hornbill before the reveal tomorrow.
Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-img_20200204_222857.jpg
(Source: Instagram)
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Old 5th February 2020, 09:27   #114
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Tata Hornbill (HBX) at the Auto Expo:

Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-ep7yy_uyaaufmw.jpg

Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-ep7zctuyaahbnv.jpg

Last edited by volkman10 : 5th February 2020 at 09:30.
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Old 5th February 2020, 09:43   #115
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Wow, looks smashing. It will sell just for the looks. The front end looks way better than Harrier. It looks like a mini Evoque.
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Old 5th February 2020, 09:51   #116
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Tata is just getting better and better at executing concepts to production.

Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-ep7yy_uyaaufmw.jpg

Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill-img_20190305_143833.jpg
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Old 5th February 2020, 09:58   #117
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Another view of the HBX

Source- Tata Motors Twitter AC

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Old 5th February 2020, 10:06   #118
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Easily one of the best looking ones in the expo. Looks like they have put the spare wheel on the top to give the vehicle a rugged looked. The production spec wouldn't be having the roof carrier by default.
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Old 5th February 2020, 10:09   #119
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

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Originally Posted by ottocycle View Post
Easily one of the best looking ones in the expo. Looks like they have put the spare wheel on the top to give the vehicle a rugged looked. The production spec wouldn't be having the roof carrier by default.
Doesn't look very close to production though! Perhaps a festive season launch or early next year is when we can expect the H2X to hit the market.
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Old 5th February 2020, 10:12   #120
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Default re: Tata planning a new Compact SUV, codenamed Hornbill

Pratap Bose will go down in history as a game changer when it comes to TATA designs. He has transformed the design language beautifully and provided the much needed aspirational quotient. The last few production vehicles have been some of the best adoptions from concept to final product as well. TATA now needs some sales to support their vision. The HBX can definitely garner numbers on just the looks. Hoping they do all the ground work and planning well before the final launch. TATA needs a run away hit and they can only achieve it if they hit the road running with all guns blazing. It must have an automatic, safety kit, connected car features and above all a competent engine.

Last edited by chittybang : 5th February 2020 at 10:14. Reason: spellcheck
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