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Old 21st August 2019, 14:49   #31
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Default Re: The next-gen BMW 3-Series (G20). EDIT: Now unveiled

Took a test drive of G20 today @ BMW KUN Chennai. Few observations. (edit: price announced as i posted. 41.4 lakhs onwards. not bad *)

1. The grille doesn't look bad in person. The fact that it opens up to let more air raised the respect level i guess.
2. Infotainment is nice. Same as in x7, 7, and other CLAR models i guess.
3. Drives well. Apart from the eco and sports mode now you can adjust steering and other parameters individually. Map inside the odometer area is a first i guess.
4. Boot is modified a bit to hide the spare and make the area usable. There's a parcel tray type closure over the spare (no need to strap it like in earlier models, see picture). But the overall size of the boot has come down i think.
5. Auto park feature works well. But had a tough time trusting a car that parks itself. Brain and right leg were fighting all the time. I think i won't be able to sit in an autonomous car ever !!
6. Hello BMW worked. Got the AC to set to 22. Switched FM to another channel. Other commands neither us nor the car understood. Open sunroof didn't work (good God)
7. Overall i guess this is the BMW's answer to tech overload which is happening all around the world (and winning eyeballs). Now all rests on the price. They said input costs have raised in recent years etc etc so one can expect a slightly higher price than the outgoing model. But i sincerely wish them all success because 3 is such a brilliant car to drive.
Attached Thumbnails
7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_boot.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_gear.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_white_sideprofile.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_white_leftrearquarter.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_front_white.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_white_frontquarter.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_boot_spare.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_infotainment.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwg20_rear1.jpg  

7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs-bmwf30vsg20boot.png  


Last edited by irdevanand : 21st August 2019 at 15:03.
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Old 21st August 2019, 14:53   #32
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

That's actually decently priced. Wow. Now we just have to wait for a while to start getting good discounts. I guess the recent state of the automobile market has served as reminder to not over price their cars.
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Old 21st August 2019, 16:03   #33
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

I was expecting a better sound system and HUD in the M Sport trim. And I don't know how practical a 40 ltrs tank be in the 20d versus 59 ptrs in the petrol.
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Old 21st August 2019, 18:15   #34
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
BMW 3 Series with BSVI compliant petrol engine, and two diesel option as well.

Will be locally produced and come with 3 design schemes.

Attachment 1907345
That is a very sensible pricing, and the new model looks 'special' which the model it replaces was not. The wow factor was missing with the previous generation's design which this one rightly addresses. Lost track of this segment, but IIRC the C Class has been outselling both the 3 Series and the A4 quite comfortably and this should help to at least bridge the gap to an extent.

: Isn't that Rudratej Singh from Royal Enfield? Never knew he was a part of BMW India now!
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Old 21st August 2019, 20:16   #35
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

What have they done to the rear of this car specially the tail lights? It feels like a Chinese influenced design and has none of the BMW design language. The F30 had such a beautifully designed rear end.

As far as pricing goes, I am not sure why everyone is praising it. They offered discounts before and would need to continue offering heavy discounts to keep this under 40L OTR ( which too is a lot). Right now with no discounts, the car would touch 50L OTR which to me was 5 series territory.
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Old 21st August 2019, 20:38   #36
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

Two technical queries for G20 320d:

1. Kitna deti hai:
Kmpl has reduced to 19.62 from previously 22.xx figure of F30 320d. What caused it? Its now lower than my X1 (20.68 kmpl) which would have a higher drag coefficient.

2. 0-100 timing:
Down from 7.2 sec to 6.8 sec. Engine performance remains same, how did they manege to shave off 0.4 seconds?

Are the two related?
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Old 21st August 2019, 20:59   #37
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Two technical queries for G20 320d:

1. Kitna deti hai:
Kmpl has reduced to 19.62 from previously 22.xx figure of F30 320d. What caused it? Its now lower than my X1 (20.68 kmpl) which would have a higher drag coefficient.

2. 0-100 timing:
Down from 7.2 sec to 6.8 sec. Engine performance remains same, how did they manege to shave off 0.4 seconds?

Are the two related?
For the 0-100 timing, the weight is reduced by 55Kgs if I am not wrong and they now have 2 turbos instead of one. I think that's what is making the car faster.
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Old 21st August 2019, 21:29   #38
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Default Re: Rumour: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Two technical queries for G20 320d:

1. Kitna deti hai:
Kmpl has reduced to 19.62 from previously 22.xx figure of F30 320d. What caused it? Its now lower than my X1 (20.68 kmpl) which would have a higher drag coefficient.

2. 0-100 timing:
Down from 7.2 sec to 6.8 sec. Engine performance remains same, how did they manege to shave off 0.4 seconds?

Are the two related?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
For the 0-100 timing, the weight is reduced by 55Kgs if I am not wrong and they now have 2 turbos instead of one. I think that's what is making the car faster.
1) I was expecting twin turbos as well, as the new version of the engine is supposed to have 2 turbos, but BMW India clearly state that this has a "TwinPower" turbo, which means dual scroll turbo. If someone has better info than that, please share.

"In November 2017, a technical update (codenamed B47T‹1) added AdBlue injection and higher injection pressures.Twin turbo for both 318d and 320d."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B47#cite_note-2

2) The better acceleration flummoxed me too, but it seems that they have tweaked the gear ratios to have shorter gearing. That could have affected the fuel economy too. The other factor that could have reduced the efficiency is of course, stringer emission norms. My 2014 320d is BS4 certified in India, but was actually built as a Euro V compliant machine. So even though the new 320D is only BS4 on paper, its emissions will be far lower than the BS4 targets, which affect economy.

3) The active front grill reduces the drag coefficient from 0.26 on the F30 to 0.23, which probably contributes to the increase in top speed to 243 KMPH, as claimed by BMW India here: https://www.bmw.in/en/all-models/3-s...ata.html#tab-0

With "just" 190 BHP, hitting 243 KMPH is a very impressive achievement, which probably goes on to show the importance of aerodynamics at higher speeds.
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Old 21st August 2019, 22:37   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
1) I was expecting twin turbos as well, as the new version of the engine is supposed to have 2 turbos, but BMW India clearly state that this has a "TwinPower" turbo, which means dual scroll turbo. If someone has better info than that, please.

Autocar India in their review mention that twin sequential turbos replace the single twin-scroll turbo of the previous generation.
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Old 21st August 2019, 23:10   #40
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
Autocar India in their review mention that twin sequential turbos replace the single twin-scroll turbo of the previous generation.
I read that too, but I was skeptical about its accuracy since TwinPower usually means twin scroll in BMW speak.

However, I have confirmed that India does indeed get TWIN TURBOS (Yes, 2 of them) in our spec.

The two of them can be found below, and the image clearly shows both of them mounted in the engine in the IND version of the G20 320d, which started production in April of 2019.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_7700
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_7701

"The B47TU engines are equipped for the first time with 2-stage turbocharging in all performance classes. Thanks to the two-stage turbocharger, it has been possible to achieve a considerable increase in the efficiency both in the partial load range and in the full load range. This increase in the efficiency is revealed in the partial load range in a clear reduction in consumption and in the full load range in a higher available torque.

The two-stage turbocharger group in the B47TU engine has the following features:

Exhaust manifold high-pressure stage with rigid turbine geometry
Low-pressure stage turbocharger with variable turbine geometry
Turbine control flap with position feedback (SENT signal)
Compressor bypass plate"

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ics/1Vnck6LgAp

Last edited by d3mon : 21st August 2019 at 23:16.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 07:19   #41
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

For me, I’m a little baffled by this strategy. Every generation seems to push the pricing up to a new level, so this one is comfortably into 40s and maybe 50s on road. Ostensibly to maintain exclusivity etc. but how are they ever going to grow the market this way?
The entire luxury space only comprises ~1% of the overall market thanks to this strategy. Of course discounts will come in, but why not just price it properly in the first place?

If you look at the variant mix, they have chosen to go with higher end variants, not even some that could be considered entry level, and may deliver high numbers. I’m sure that a 330i without that Msport pack could be more competitive. Already there is a move to petrol power in the wider market.

But it seems they are ready to forego those customers so they can create this unattainable luxury vibe, and then at the back end have a high discount structure. Clearly with ever increasing registration charges, this is not the most customer friendly strategy and keeps the company at a stunted level, selling 10000 odd units a year.

Last edited by mayjay : 22nd August 2019 at 07:33. Reason: Paragraphs!
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Old 22nd August 2019, 09:27   #42
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayjay View Post
For me, Iím a little baffled by this strategy. Every generation seems to push the pricing up to a new level, so this one is comfortably into 40s and maybe 50s on road. Ostensibly to maintain exclusivity etc. but how are they ever going to grow the market this way?
The entire luxury space only comprises ~1% of the overall market thanks to this strategy. Of course discounts will come in, but why not just price it properly in the first place?
But this is pretty much the case across all brands right? Those in 10s are moving to 20s; say a next gen Honda City may easily go into around 20 lakhs and they will have something like BS6 or other to justify the price hike. I feel the new 3 is priced well in its segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayjay
f you look at the variant mix, they have chosen to go with higher end variants, not even some that could be considered entry level, and may deliver high numbers. Iím sure that a 330i without that Msport pack could be more competitive. Already there is a move to petrol power in the wider market.
I agree, itís about time that they offer multiple trim levels instead of ring-fencing certain engine options to the top trim.

Last edited by vb-san : 22nd August 2019 at 09:50.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 09:43   #43
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

Having a higher list price followed by discounts to push the product in the market has been the strategy for several players and premium auto sector players are no different.

Its the perception that the buyer gets that I am driving a 50 Lac car (for a 41 - 42 Lac Ex Showroom / list price) though she / he might have extracted a discount of 4 - 5 Lac. The downside is on the taxes / registration fee as several RTO's will take registration charges on the basis of list price and not the price at which the product has been sold after discounts. This is a pass through on the customer who ends up loosing anywhere between 50 k to 1 Lac due to higher list price.

Not sure but in today's market when discounts are the only tool used even for selling grocery, how justified it is to have a higher list price?
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Old 22nd August 2019, 10:18   #44
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
But this is pretty much the case across all brands right? Those in 10s are moving to 20s; say a next gen Honda City may easily go into around 20 lakhs and they will have something like BS6 or other to justify the price hike. I feel the new 3 is priced well in its segment.

Youíre right to an extent about City etc., but only if one looks at top end on road prices.
At the lower end, the prices are not so different. In 2008 the S variant of the City was sold at 8 lakh ex showroom. Today, 11 years later, the SV variant (lowest) is sold at 9.81 lakhs!

Letís look at the 3. Last generation (2012) starting price was 28.9 lakhs. Now it is 41.4 lakhs. An increase of 43% after ~7 years.
With this kind of pricing-variant strategy, they are mostly targeting people who already bought the last generation and are looking to upgrade to new generation. They are going to miss the entire market which would have moved into the thirty lakh segment. So they are missing the opportunity to grow the market. I donít know how sustainable it is for them long term to limit themselves in this way.
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Old 22nd August 2019, 12:36   #45
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Default Re: 7th-gen BMW 3-Series launch by mid-2019 EDIT : Now launched at Rs. 41.40 lakhs

They should have had the price of base 320D under 40 lakhs. Something like 38.xx etc.

Perception plays a very important role in this starting luxury segment and having a product priced under 40 would have opened doors for those holding back due to an over 40 starting price. Even if its only psychological.

Last edited by bigron : 22nd August 2019 at 12:37.
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