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Old 17th March 2020, 18:16   #31
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Source: https://www.indiacarnews.com/news/ma...anymore-38667/

This article says it is the 1.6L Diesel from Fiat that is coming in BS-6 avatar and not the in-house 1.5L DDiS.
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Old 4th May 2020, 19:19   #32
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti Suzuki's diesel to make a come back in Ertiga by this year end.

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Old 5th May 2020, 08:49   #33
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

In this case, I think it has to be the Fiat 1.6 MJD modified to BS VI standards. I do not believe the in-house Maruti developed 1.5 DDIS can be modified so easily due to the technical design limitations covered earlier in various threads. They cannot develop a brand new engine architecture either, in such a short time.

If it is indeed the Fiat 1.6 is coming, in it’s earlier 320NM guise, that would make for one hell of a powerful Ertiga! It would almost match the Innova with its 320 NM torque and if it can be mated to a TC auto like the one in the Hexa 6 speed auto, that would make for a perfect long distance cruiser. Maruti already has experience working with this engine in the SX4 DDIS and an auto will mask the terrible turbo lag the manual transmission in the SX4 had, so it would be a neat solution overall.

Last edited by moralfibre : 21st May 2020 at 12:05. Reason: Typo
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Old 21st May 2020, 11:27   #34
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti has indicated that it may not launch BS6 diesel:

Ajay Seth, Sr. Executive Director & CFO, Maruti Suzuki:
Quote:
“The contribution of sales from petrol vehicles stands at 93% in quarter 4 2019/’20,” Seth said.
...

The shift towards petrol vehicles is more evident now, with share of diesel vehicles for the industry falling from 20% in quarter 4 2019/'20 -- falling below 20% in quarter 4 in 2019/’20.
Shashank Srivastava, Head of Marketing & Sales, Maruti Suzuki:
Quote:
It's only in the SUV category that there is -- and that too in the mid-SUV and upper category of SUV that there is a significant percentage of diesel. But the initial demand for the new launches of the competition for -- in the SUV category also indicates -- whether it's Seltos or whether it is Hector or even Creta, it does indicate that there is a lot of traction for gasoline even in those segments.

Concluding his statement of analysis about the demand for diesel engines in passenger vehicles, Srivastava said that the company expects “that the diesel percentage in the industry will further come down.”
Source
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:11   #35
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarthakgupta View Post
Maruti has indicated that it may not launch BS6 diesel:

Ajay Seth, Sr. Executive Director & CFO, Maruti Suzuki:


Shashank Srivastava, Head of Marketing & Sales, Maruti Suzuki:
Geniuses!! When you discontinue your sole diesel engine, it is obvious that you will sell only petrol engines cars!

It’s is clear that only Maruti has failed to get its engine BS6 compliant. Rest everyone else has - Tata, Hyundai, Ford, Mahindra and even laggards Honda. And this has been done without a massive cost penalty on the sticker price.

They can say whether they want to, they didn’t get the job done, everyone else is reaping the benefits and now they are crying foul and divert blame by blaming things like market preference

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 21st May 2020 at 12:12.
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:25   #36
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Geniuses!! When you discontinue your sole diesel engine, it is obvious that you will sell only petrol engines cars!
They can say whether they want to, they didn’t get the job done, everyone else is reaping the benefits and now they are crying foul and divert blame by blaming things like market preference
True, I will be curious to know how the response to the Petrol only Ertiga, Brezza and S-Cross will be in the longrun. With cars like the Swift and Dzire, the FE hit in the petrol would not be significant, but when we speak about the K15 engine, I dont think it would give you the FE of a similar sized diesel to convincing levels. Driveability in the bigger vehicles will also take a hit. At least for these vehicles, a diesel option is desirable. If the Feb 2020 sales of Maruti is suitable for a benchmark, it lies flat YOY. With the absence of a diesel portfolio by March, we would have known the actual drop if not for COVID. I wonder how people can give absurd logic saying 93% of sales are petrol. Speak about retaining market share and at least some sort of growth in sales.
Hyundai and Kia have everything sorted to eat up MSIL in the coming months or years. Given how the Seltos was accepted, if Kia gets into the smaller car segments, it will grab a good chunk from the sales of the Swift. The Swift still has good recognition from the younger crowd which Kia can easily steal. And if it comes with an efficient diesel, it will also attract buyers looking at heavy usage.
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:34   #37
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti seems to be going round in circles, changing their decision every couple of months! Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere "My indecision is final"

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
True, I will be curious to know how the response to the Petrol only Ertiga, Brezza and S-Cross will be in the longrun.
+1

In the short term, people might forgive Maruti and still buy it for the brand and the cars. But in the long term, once the initial apprehension about the the Govt. policies and the BS6 fuel dies, people should start looking for alternatives with diesel engine.

For someone who has high monthly usage or loves performance or is particular the fuel costs, there are better alternatives to the K15 engine, both in petrol and diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
I seriously cannot understand what's going on in their heads and R&D department?

Are they only trying not to hurt the petrol car sales while they still work on a diesel plant and then do a U turn again?
Maruti is like the Hero motocop among 4-wheeler OEMs.

Last edited by ashis89 : 21st May 2020 at 13:00.
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:41   #38
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
But in the long term, once the initial apprehension about the the Govt. policies and the BS6 fuel dies, people should start looking for alternatives with diesel engine.
This stage has already pretty much been reached. The new Creta is selling around 50% of its volume in diesel. That should put to rest any doubts car-makers like MSIL had about whether diesel will sell in BSVI era.

(IMHO, MSIL didn't have any doubts as such. They were just not prepared for it and tried to cover it up to the best of their ability as a stop gap.)
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:44   #39
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

How many U-turns before one's going round in circles?
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Old 21st May 2020, 12:54   #40
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Forget about a BS 6 compliant diesel engine, maruti / suzuki are not even able to upgrade their age old four speed torque converter. If they want to be an all petrol engined car company, then atleast provide the best ( if not the best, atleast a decent, modern) in the industry?

I seriously cannot understand what's going on in their heads and R&D department?

Are they only trying not to hurt the petrol car sales while they still work on a diesel plant and then do a U turn again?
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:21   #41
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

"It's either my way or no way" is their motto from the beginning.

Saying 90% of sales coming from Petrol when most of your portfolio is petrol only is just plain ignorance. After realizing their new engine cannot be upgraded to BS6 norms, Maruti tried to lobby the BS6 implementation and failed big time.

Whatever the cost may be, they should have started changing their engine to BS6 or started working on new architecture. If both feels heavy in the pocket, just get the sweet 1.6L from FIAT, modify it to suit the tax bracket and bam! you have a diesel variant from all models.

But, Maruti, decided to play their motto. To top it off, their implementation of hybrid is just namesake and if they have the ability to do something and use hybrid like that of camry by reducing costs, then I'm sure Maruti can keep the sales chart climbing.

They had all those avenues, but they chose to ignore all as it is their attitude towards India. Why not give DCT or TC in cars costing million bucks? When others happily given TC/DCT/CVT, Maruti decided to go with AMT and oh boy, we all know how bad it was. Even the Hyundai mastered AMT better than Maruti could ever be. I was astonished to drive Santro AMT after a disappointing drive of AMT from Maruti stable.

Maruti may be a market leader for so long, but that's because they read the market very well. But with the fierce competition from all around, reluctant to bring better products and not having diesel mill. All these choices are going to hurt them and it wouldn't be a surprise even if they will loose their position to Hyundai/Kia!
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:37   #42
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
Forget about a BS 6 compliant diesel engine, maruti / suzuki are not even able to upgrade their age old four speed torque converter. If they want to be an all petrol engined car company, then atleast provide the best ( if not the best, atleast a decent, modern) in the industry?
I seriously cannot understand what's going on in their heads and R&D department?
Are they only trying not to hurt the petrol car sales while they still work on a diesel plant and then do a U turn again?
I'd disagree with that actually.

They are not stupid. They are probably the smartest in the short term for now. They know that their brand sells & majority of their customers will pick their 4 AT over a 7 DCT or 5 AMT. Their overall product packaging, pricing & feature list is a perfect balance, supported by the service network. This sells. They have not lost too much in market share in their fortress segments. Its not that MSIL can't make a 5 AT or better. Suzuki already has these transmissions on sale in other markets.

Its simple math. Bring a new TC box - spend the extra money required for it along with service updates and staff trainings etc. More inventory and supply chain to manage. Their modeling would have shown that even with a newer AT the overall sales numbers would be same as now. If so - no point in the investment.

MSIL product decisions should be taken as a reflection of what they feel about us - the consumers. MSIL still thinks that we aren't matured enough to choose based on technical specifications rather than colour shades, brand logos & price to purchase. By and large in the mass market, they aren't wrong.

(EDIT - I'm talking only in context of the 4-AT. In terms of diesel - yes they are stupid. )

Last edited by Reinhard : 21st May 2020 at 13:54.
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:37   #43
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

I'm pretty sure the petrol Brezza should be seeing an FE in the 9-10 kmpl range. The Ertiga would also be returning similar figures. It would only be a matter of time before word gets out. Moreover, Maruti service is no longer cheap. In the not too distant future, I see Maruti losing their grip on the market.
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Old 21st May 2020, 13:47   #44
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Look at it from a customers point of view. Being a Maruti loyalist all my life, I was going to shift to another brand just because of Maruti's lack of diesels. I know a lot of people who stay in Bhiwandi, Dombivali, Thane etc in Mumbai who drive long distances to get to work were going to shift to other brands too (If not for Covid and deciding to stop the buying all together). A petrol car just won't cut it a lot of people.

When everyone around has a diesel and you don't, you are the loser. No Taxi guy is going to buy a Petrol Ertiga (he can't buy a CNG as there will be no luggage space) and travel long distances.

Maruti will definitely see a mass exodus of lot of its customers if they don't get a diesel.
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Old 21st May 2020, 14:45   #45
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Atleast now there Sales and Marketing team can give a proper reason of not able to achieve the magical no of 2 million car sales in a year by 2020.

That aside, they will face huge challenge in keeping up with the petrol vehicle sales with a higher price tag, say who is going to buy an Scross with a mediocre power and torque figure. If I have Scoss, will feel like driving around in an spacious alto with more features tucked in, but if I have to overtake, certainly have to downshift a gear or two to get things moving.

No turbo petrol, No proper ATs.
There R&D team is just almost non-existent to me, milking on age old technologies and customer sentiments. That too when they have loads of money in the bank, can easily allocate a chunk of it on R&D and I don't see any reason why they don't spend on bringing in their latest tech in such an highly anticipated market.

Last edited by Highh5 : 21st May 2020 at 14:46.
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