|
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
Search this Thread | 102,780 views |
24th June 2020, 15:31 | #91 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Chennai
Posts: 822
Thanked: 3,449 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
14% is the component including Power. Fuel alone for around 90% of the pop forms approx maybe 6-7%. Food inflation is completely under check, esp for the poor who use PDS subsidies. Fact is very simple, DATA and only data says that these price rises affect not even 2% of the population, the richest 2% and to put it bluntly it is the same set that cry crocodile tears about the poor and migrants on one hand, spend 10's of thousands on car accessories, similar amounts on road trips for joy and then turn around and cry about how the govt is harassing the poor (themselves). This is pure hypocrisy combined with a solid dose of illiteracy on just who the real poor of the country are. Quote:
Where do you think the money will go? Into construction companies, into companies that manufacture cement, iron and steel, it will employ 1,000's of labour for years, at govt fixed wages. Or do you think some fat babu and neta pockets 90% of the cost? Let me repeat, the Indian parliament needs more MP's our current number is abysmally low, our current parliament is clogged and needs expansion. The project will funnel money back into the ecosystem from ordinary labour to large companies. This creates a multiplier effect. Infra construction is not done on computers. And the "migrant" argument eh? 40% of the budget goes directly to the poor segments. Another 30% indirectly. By arguing against the fuel hike are denying the govt funds of approx. 1.2l crores. Proportionally this means by saying this is unfair and anti poor,c you are denying the poor about 50k crores directly. You can't have it both ways, you either care for the poor, in which case you will realise the govt needs all sources of revenue to fund it's social welfare schemes or you can argue for your (the generic you here) own pocket and welfare but then please don't talk about the poor. If it's the later then you don't care about the poor having food (PDS), fertiliser, piped water, basic toilets.... This is okay but let's not pretend to be on both sides of the table at the same time. Quote:
A fascist govt precludes any form of choice or agency. A democracy has a Constitution and guarantees rights You logically can't use these two diametrically opposite terms to describe one entity. It is like saying someone is an ugly handsome person. And finally, just because A govt, takes a decision you don't like, doesn't make them Fascist. A word of advice, if you want to be taken seriously, drop this hyperbolic verbiage. We are a Democracy, and if enough people don't like the decisions of A govt, any govt, they can and will be voted out. Last edited by moralfibre : 24th June 2020 at 15:48. Reason: Deleted offensive bits from the post. | |||
(7) Thanks |
The following 7 BHPians Thank Stribog for this useful post: | kvothe_rules, nikhn, rahul4321, ramzsys, swiftLife, thecarguy, ValarMorghulis |
|
24th June 2020, 15:37 | #92 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Chennai
Posts: 822
Thanked: 3,449 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
Hyperbolic FUD mongering - this govt is Fascist. Big difference between the two. You don't seem to understand the difference also between nation and party and personality. I said, it demeans our entire nation, by projecting a lie (that the govt is Fascist) upon what's in reality a vibrant and thriving Democracy. Unlike many in this current thread, I take an objective issue based stance, maybe something difficult when people don't consider data and go by "but the migrants" rhetoric. If someone actually studies the union budget they will realise 70% goes to the poor and farmers directly and indirectly and the money being raised by fuel duties will in large portion go back to the poor. I find it funny that people cry fake tears about the poor but in the same post will want their fuel prices reduced on their personal bills. You can't have both, you can either be for the poor and pay the duties or be selfish and think only about the self. Last edited by moralfibre : 24th June 2020 at 15:52. Reason: Trimming quoted post and political content from your post. | |
(6) Thanks |
The following 6 BHPians Thank Stribog for this useful post: | locusjag, nikhn, rahul4321, thecarguy, TRR, ValarMorghulis |
24th June 2020, 15:50 | #93 |
Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: MH-12
Posts: 8,495
Thanked: 14,118 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Mod note: Discuss the price hike and keep politics for the forums that let you discuss them. Thanks! |
(10) Thanks |
The following 10 BHPians Thank moralfibre for this useful post: | aaychat, adi.mariner, GipsyDanger, Ravi Parwan, romeomidhun, samaspire, Thermodynamics, thesquaremile, wheelguy, ZenMaster |
24th June 2020, 15:53 | #94 | |
BHPian Join Date: May 2020 Location: Kozhikode
Posts: 46
Thanked: 299 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
| |
() Thanks |
24th June 2020, 15:58 | #95 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 470
Thanked: 1,681 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
Very often - the concept of the earnings of Direct Taxes and Indirect Taxes and its negative repercussions on the personal finances of an individual vis-a-vis the finances of a country are not understood properly which then gives rise to the sweeping statements of the media who are poised at the petrol pump like vultures asking everybody- how their personal economic situation will be adversely affected by an increase in the price of petrol / diesel - with the "adversely" already embedded into the question which does not give the responder a fair chance to answer the question the way he would like to. Bashing the economy and the Government has also become a sport of sorts these days I feel. It is very fashionable to do so. Mind you - there are no parallels to be drawn, no comparisons to be made as a similar Pandemic hasnt ever happened before when Previous Governments have been in rule but it still does not stop people from announcing the verdict of the measures of the Government being a failure in absolute / relative terms. If you try and defend the Government - you are instantly labelled as a Bhakt or a Pseudo-Patriot. The irony on me is not lost that I did not even vote for them. Its only that I grudgingly acknowledge what they are up against, their stellar resolve and the steps they are taking to navigate this. Exchanges like the ones on this thread do make me contemplate as to whether I should just stick to the Motorcycles Section as I generally do - and not really wander around on general debates if my opinion is not the popular opinion. Last edited by rahul4321 : 24th June 2020 at 16:21. Reason: Had already started drafting the answer so only saw the Mod Note after posting | |
(3) Thanks |
The following 3 BHPians Thank rahul4321 for this useful post: | nikhn, Stribog, thecarguy |
24th June 2020, 16:01 | #96 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 72
Thanked: 346 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
The 14% or 6-7% figure that you are quoting would be the direct impact of fuel increase on CPI. The increase in transportation/food/services part of it due to fuel increase is the indirect impact. Hence we still have to look at overall CPI if that's the data you want to look at. It is not an instantaneous measure. Give it some time, and it will reflect the picture accurately. | |
() Thanks |
24th June 2020, 16:04 | #97 | |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Mumbai
Posts: 385
Thanked: 619 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
I do not agree with the fuel hike, though I understand that is the only option left. I will be tracking the retail price once the crude oil prices go up to see what impact it has on the increased taxes. - Slick | |
(4) Thanks |
The following 4 BHPians Thank Slick for this useful post: | ContessMan, JojyKerala, Sk8r, Thermodynamics |
24th June 2020, 16:06 | #98 |
Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,855
Thanked: 8,787 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?
I'll quote that bit so that it echoes off of the walls here. It really needs to be heard again and again Last edited by locusjag : 24th June 2020 at 16:10. |
(2) Thanks |
The following 2 BHPians Thank locusjag for this useful post: | nikhn, Sree |
24th June 2020, 16:18 | #99 | |||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,402
Thanked: 5,234 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
And how are you so sure that in this case it isn’t the case? Is this going to create millionaire daily wage workers? Or perhaps a brand new middle class? What exactly are they building for 20,000 crores or approx $3 billion in today current currency. Burj Khalifa, the tallest building in the world in a landscape not made for high rise buildings cost $1.5 billion. What exactly are we building for twice the cost of the tallest building in the world? Quote:
Also curious what are the current occupancy rates in the parliament? No facts number figures just plain old, “Because I say so”? Unfortunately yes. They are living breathing humans who work for their money the hardest for little or no rewards and no citizen rights either. Quote:
I am not arguing against fuel price hike per se. I am concerned where the money is going. If my government does not have a few hundred crores for the poorest most vulnerable population including children, some born, some not and leaves them to suffer and die on the roads without care on their own and then spends 30,000 crores on VIP jumbo jets and upgrading their already lavish houses and workplaces, I think I have the right to ask questions. Last edited by extreme_torque : 24th June 2020 at 16:21. | |||
(16) Thanks |
The following 16 BHPians Thank extreme_torque for this useful post: | Akib Khan, AYP, ContessMan, Fuldagap, GeneralJazz, GipsyDanger, JojyKerala, Newpunter, Night_Fury, praveear, romeomidhun, samaspire, Thermodynamics, thesquaremile, Turbohead, ZenMaster |
24th June 2020, 16:21 | #100 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 72
Thanked: 346 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
If that is the justification for the central Vista project, then creating many more AIIMS like hospitals throughout India, or kendriya vidyalaya would be much more effective use to help everyone especially the poor who cant go to private hospitals or schools. What makes you feel we need more MPs ? Is there any objective way to support this ? | |
(11) Thanks |
The following 11 BHPians Thank rjainv for this useful post: | AbelAFC, Akib Khan, ContessMan, extreme_torque, Fuldagap, GipsyDanger, JithinR, JojyKerala, romeomidhun, samaspire, Thermodynamics |
24th June 2020, 16:45 | #101 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Chennai
Posts: 822
Thanked: 3,449 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
1) India did not ask for"covid aid" - as a part of the developing member countries, the WB and ADB are rolling out support packages. India officially stopped accepting aid during the UPA period itself. 2) does India need more MP's - your feelings aside, data suggests we need a 1,000 MP's at a minimum for effective governance Article 81 of the Constitution lays down that MP seats will be in proportion to the population of said state. Yet Indira Gandhi in 76 passed the 42nd amendment that locked this proportion to our population in 1971. Since then every govt has been kicking the can down the road but our MP pop ratio is stuck in 1971. Our population in 1971 was 560 mn. It is 1.3bn now. Proportional increase in line with the Constitution would have had our MP's at 1,200 by now, yet it has artificially been capped. Now the southern states have their own arguments on this and I will not get into those as it is off topic but even keeping the same proportion but to account for the pop increase you need 1,000 MP's minimum. The Constitution also guarantees 1 man / woman 1 vote. Yet today the average UP MP is elected to govern 45 lakh people while a Kerala MP will be at 15 lakhs. In other words the average UP voter is disadvantaged (Constitutionally) to the Kerala voter. The average Democracy has 1 MP : 1.5 lakh people, India is at 1 MP : 15 lakh people, a 10 fold increase. Now you can't have 5,000 MP's, that would be a challenge to manage, but 543 is abysmally low. Why now? The current extension passed by the UPA is only till 2026, the govt then would need to expand (at least marginally) but our current parliament is abysmally cramped. So your assertion that India doesn't need more MP's is an emotive claim belied by the Constitution, global averages and Indian numbers. 3) the Majority of the population is poor 70 years after 47 - an absolute whopper. Let's just look at the topline numbers, In 47, Poverty rate was 90%, absolute poverty was 70%, literacy rate was 12%, average life expectancy was 32 (yes, 32 years) In 2020, Poverty rate is 20%, absolute poverty is 11%, literacy rate is 70%, average life expectancy is 65 (yes, 65 years) Our GDP per capita has risen 21 times from 1960 alone, and 30 times from 1947 Your assertion is utterly baseless. You sir need to stop this rhetoric, and first open your eyes. If you hate a political party, that's your prerogative, and indeed you Constitutional right, but if you are going to make arguments on Economic policy, then please use data points and form a cogent argument. The former is personal, the later is objective. Last edited by Rudra Sen : 24th June 2020 at 18:01. Reason: edited | |
(17) Thanks |
The following 17 BHPians Thank Stribog for this useful post: | abhishek46, Akib Khan, BroodVarun, itsmb, locusjag, murthy_p, NiInJa, nikhn, rahul4321, rbp1988, samaspire, Seenz, Teesh@BHP, thecarguy, TRR, ValarMorghulis, WhiteFang |
|
24th June 2020, 17:07 | #102 | ||||||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,402
Thanked: 5,234 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/pr...a-protect-poor India did not say "No" to the loan either. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/...an-india-45134 Quote:
https://www.oxfam.org/en/india-extre...uality-numbers Quote:
Even if I were to take your argument as gospel and that we will have 1000 MP's in the parliament after 2026, assuming it actually happens, why is the need of the hour not more schools, hospitals and social services for the people even if it is at the "cost" of a "slight inconvenience" to 1000 people sitting more closely together in a grand airconditioned building which exists already. The need of the thousand vs the need of a billion. Last edited by extreme_torque : 24th June 2020 at 17:25. | ||||||
(11) Thanks |
The following 11 BHPians Thank extreme_torque for this useful post: | Akib Khan, ContessMan, Fuldagap, GipsyDanger, m8002?, Night_Fury, praveear, Radiator, Ravi Parwan, srikanthmadhava, Thermodynamics |
24th June 2020, 17:09 | #103 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: kolkata/bangalore,india
Posts: 2,904
Thanked: 4,203 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
Anyhow, I thought this might be interesting. I was checking the consumption of petrol and diesel in the country and where we stand. One can see how we went from normal consumption in Feb, to a dip due COVID and now recovery. All figures in '000 Metric Tonnes MS (Motor Spirit/Petrol)
HSD (High Speed Diesel)
So, as you will notice, diesel consumption (which is a good indicator of economic production) has reached almost 80% level of what it was compared to the pre-COVID era. The other observation to make is that on an average the country consumes almost 3 times more diesel than petrol, because obviously diesel is used for private, good transport & industry. This is also an important reason why rising diesel prices should be handled with care by the government, because it will only hurt the economic recovery of the country. Inflation pressure will start and will start cutting margins for an already bruised and battered MSME sector. Source Last edited by avishar : 24th June 2020 at 17:20. | |
(5) Thanks |
The following 5 BHPians Thank avishar for this useful post: | ContessMan, GipsyDanger, NetfreakBombay, romeomidhun, ZenMaster |
24th June 2020, 17:24 | #104 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 470
Thanked: 1,681 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote: (1) Negative Effect of utilization because of Lockdown which was still in effect: Lockdown 4.0 ended on 31st of May I believe (2) Positive Effect of utlization because of Movement of Heavy Troops: The scuffle started on May 5 after which the Movement of Heavy Troops Started So a negative effect and a positive effect show a combined 80% comparative to the normal numbers In June, the negative effect of utlization would have gone away as the Lockdown opened up. The Positve effect of utilization would still be there as the heavy troops movement is still being undertaken. June I believe would be around 100%-110% of the normal average as per my calculations - we will know shortly. | |
() Thanks |
24th June 2020, 18:08 | #105 | |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Chennai
Posts: 822
Thanked: 3,449 Times
| Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening? Quote:
There is a severe shortfall of tax revenues these two quarters, how do you propose the govt raise funds? Or is your proposal abandon all budgeting and to each to his / her own? (because you think no matter what every single paisa goes into private pockets) The poverty line is adjusted for PPP and is currently at Rs 90 / person / day. The same measures applied in 1947. To argue that 90% poverty levels and 32 years of life expectancy in 47 is the same as the current poverty rate is misleading and misinformed. When I speak of poverty rates, I speak for all govts past and present not only the present dispensation. If one went by your understanding of poverty rates, then you want the govt to forsake an increased revenue stream (coming mostly from the richer classes) to forsake the poor. Like I said before your argument is rooted a misunderstanding of how politics, Economy and policy making works. Regarding Your argument about MP's being held accountable, a study of history will tell you how presently advanced democracies worked. Simple question though to end this discussion from my side: 1) what do you think the govt is doing with the revenues thus raised? 1a) how exactly do you think the govt is to fund all its social welfare schemes? And oh all our budgets have scaled up: The expenditure in the 71 budget was 2,400 crores. The expenditure in the 19 budget was 2,70,000 crores. There has been a more than proportional increase in our expenditure in all the headings you mentioned. Unless you think our budgets are still less than a $1bn, you seem gravely mistaken. Last edited by Aditya : 26th June 2020 at 19:03. Reason: Toning down. Please refrain from making personal attacks on fellow BHPians | |
(5) Thanks |
The following 5 BHPians Thank Stribog for this useful post: | abhishek46, NiInJa, nikhn, TRR, ValarMorghulis |