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Old 24th December 2020, 11:49   #76
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
Since both these cars are already certified and CRV being CKD, will there be a significant benefit?
Also wondering where the 'special edition' CR-V they 'launched' few months back are.

Honda India management is a big box of mystery.
I forgot that CR-V was CKD import from Thailand. Then it seems like Honda wasn't making any profit on CR-V sales and is even subsidized as it was already selling at a higher price in Thailand.(May be trying to push premium status through these products)

Seems like Honda want to shut off the Noida factory and they pulled plug on these since they are not selling much and they don't want to start a new assembly line for a car which isn't gonna sell well.

Then Honda may be in a bad shape than what we see, its more like reducing operation cost and a survival strategy !! Even in global line up of their product they have very less models which can be brought to India without compromising something or charging premium than competitors.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:20   #77
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post

I guess India is too small for Toyota & Honda to care about.
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Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze View Post
Well, thatís an early Christmas present for all new CR-V & Civic owners.

Couldnít agree more! The Indian market is just not matured enough for the big two Japanese OEMs. The real loser is the potential Indian customer. They are now deprived of the safe & reliable choice in the segment.

Now, for somebody looking to climb the ladder from the Yaris/City, they have no choice but to consider the Innova/Fortuner.

No matter which way you look at it, this is going to make other OEMs reconsider their plans to launch more sedans (effectively killing the segment or charge an obscene premium).
Disagree, let's not blame the market for OEM stupidity.

Thailand where both are strong is a $10bn auto market, India is a $70bn market.

It's average number of new vehicles (not just cars but all vehicles) is around 90000-100,000. Cars are around 70-80k

India averaged 50,000 even during the covid period and is now doing about 250k on average monthly.

That's just one market am comparing but given that India is the 4th largest auto market and on track to hit the #3 position in another year or so, the argument that the market is not big enough for these two players is not valid imo.

Otoh look their product line up, it has been and is hot garbage and they deserve to go the way of the Dodo.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:38   #78
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

What Honda needed was ONE SUV when the market suddenly decided to run away from sedans. A Creta rival with 1.5L i-Vtec would have made the Korean run for its money.

Few OEMs like Ford, VW and Skoda have realised it late. But atleast they are in an atempt to capture their lost ground. It is sad to see Honda which was one of the go to brand for Maruti and Hyundai rejectors, now staring at an exit. Looks like there is no plan to counter their decline.

I guess, Honda globally is known for making some ridiculously bad decisions over the years.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:48   #79
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by abhkop View Post
What Honda needed was ONE SUV when the market suddenly decided to run away from sedans. A Creta rival with 1.5L i-Vtec would have made the Korean run for its money.

With Honda's engineering prowess, it should have been super easy to make a Creta rival - it is not like any inventions are needed to make a CUV! People would have lapped it up, even if it did not have all of the Creta's snazzy features.

There are unconfirmed media reports that the 3rd gen H-RV (Creta rival) and a 'Z-RV' (replacing the W-RV) may debut in 2021 to plug the huge vulnerability in Honda's armour. I am particularly excited about the H-RV as some Japanese reports claim that it is going to be 4.4 meters long.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 24th December 2020 at 12:50.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:49   #80
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

By discontinuing CRV & Civic, Honda has shown they give a damn to one the biggest auto market (as other have already posted above). On top of it, smaller markets get Turbo-ed City, Brio Hatch, Jazz, etc when all of these aren't sold in India.

Honda is doing what Toyota is speaking, despite practically milking Indian customers for last penny they can extract in name of brand goodwill.

My humble suggestion to Honda & Toyota is to pack bags & get lost. We are happy with Marutis, Hyundais & Indian Automakers. Top two Japs can anyway sell under the 2500 units quota as their sales will soon be relegated to these numbers.

Heck the Chinese are priced astronomically due to the prices Honda & Toyota charge for their products & borrowed brand lineage.

Had Honda priced products reasonably, they could have sold more, but they wanted to sell CRV for Fortuner money & Civic for Innova money. At least, Toyota sells Body on Frame vehicles that are sturdy in long run.

Now on we only will get 3rd world Honda products that are as light weight as Suzuki's, yet we will be made to pay 20% more price for the badge.

Seemingly, Japanese are on a high, &/ or ageing population has affected their aggression in product development.

The stupid auto enthusiast in me still wants them to launch good products - HRV/ Bezel at competitive prices with good engines than just Brio derived quasi SUV for Harrier/ Hector price.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:52   #81
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

Honda should have pulled the plug in the BS6 transition itself. They have converted 3 different engines to comply with the BS6 regulation which went futile. A clear case of mismanagement as Civic was in a dying segment and CRV was dead on arrival with almost zero competitive advantage. Honda's strategy for India is much weird and confusing.

Civic in BS6 missed out on gizmos such as Connected tech, TPMS, Built-in Alexa, etc compared to outgoing City, which happens to be in need of the hour. With no immediate launches or clear roadmap, Honda is sailing on City and Amaze number. Time has to prove how long it can go without drowning. Quite unfortunate about the Japanese giant in India. Just like Ford, after 20 years of operations, Honda is still unable to judge Indian consumer behavior.
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:53   #82
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Now on we only will get 3rd world Honda products that are as light weight as Suzuki's, yet we will be made to pay 20% more price for the badge.
And I am appalled that people still judge build quality and strength by weight and exterior panel thickness.

Can we BHPians stop doing this please?
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Old 24th December 2020, 12:56   #83
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

My wife drove a CR-V for two years and still vouches for the comfort and space that it offered. IMHO Honda lost the plot in reading the Indian consumer - neither did they offer a full SUV when Fortuner and Endeavour gained share and nor did they offer a cross-over/small SUV when Creta stole the thunder in Indian markets. It sat on the sidelines of a large chunk of the market whereas others built volumes. I have driven ANHC for 85k kms. and would have been happy to buy another from Honda stable but there has been a lack of good options apart from the City from Honda stable.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:05   #84
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
Civic and CRV are among the highest selling cars worldwide and yet Honda India could not sell them in India ? Such a lost opportunity and a sad news. What do people who've spent 25 lakhs plus on these cars do now ?
The problem is Honda forgets that when it comes to India. Civic and CRV is one of the most affordable cars world wide, but in India its is priced way above what it is offering. I would neve buy a Civic just for this reason, with that Money I would try a used BMW or Merc or a Big SUV.

I would any day prefer a Honda over Hyundai even though Honda has less bling and features, but it has to be priced reasonably and Honda consistently fails in this dept.

Honda's greed is what made them ended up current situation - not that they make bad cars.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:14   #85
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

Are OEMs too focused on the fortune at the bottom of the pyramid?

Every OEM wants to have a high feature entry level hatch (sub 4m - Swift, Baleno, i20, Polo, Jazz, etc) or a pseudo SUV (eg brezza, ecosport, xuv300, etc). Move a segment up and you have the City, Ciaz, Yaris, seltos, Creta etc. Understandable that the volumes are there, but given the competition, the margins are going to get much thinner. Upgrading from that segment is a hard act today.

Earlier you could laterally move to a D segment sedan (no options today but the ageing elantra) or the full size sedan (earlier affordable Accord, Camry, etc). Your options today are either a Fortuner, Endeavour, Tiguan, Karoq or Superb. Today the basic Germans (cla, gla, x1, q3, (q2?)) and the large fully loaded mass-market Japanese/Czech cars are are all 40+ lakhs!

Is there no segment between 25 and 40 lakhs? Is this segment not serviceable? Not profitable?
I wonder what the logic is, you can sell reasonably premium products with a USP (Japanese reliability, European handling, Affordable luxury, etc) but no OEM cares for that segment today. If Iím a D-segment sedan owner today, and want to upgrade, I have to go European. If thatís the case, nobody will go back and buy a Lexus later. By not having a full line, youíre losing customer life cycle value!

Everybody is trying to emulate Maruti Suzuki, farm the customer from Alto to Ciaz, hand them over to another brand once they reach a good profitability! (Toyota will sell an Innova to that customer once, or twice, given how a current gen Innova is priced a segment above the previous one)

After that, itís like the whole market is handed over to expensive to buy, maintain and not-so-reliable Germans!
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:17   #86
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

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Originally Posted by sharninder View Post
Civic and CRV are among the highest selling cars worldwide and yet Honda India could not sell them in India ? Such a lost opportunity and a sad news. What do people who've spent 25 lakhs plus on these cars do now ?
Let's admit it. The current gen Civic was never a runaway success like the 8th gen Civic. To make things worse, it was overpriced and lacked an MT in the petrol version and an AT in the diesel version. The CRV has always been significantly overpriced and IMHO catered to a very small yet niche crowd.

I have said this and will say this again, that Honda has been riding largely on the success of the City, putting all eggs in one basket. Success with one product doesn't mean it translates to every other product under the roof, by default.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:18   #87
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

That explains the huge discounts on Civic from past 2 months.
Though I agree that executive sedan's are getting washed away in the tsunami of SUVs (aka softroaders) and compact SUVs, I don't get the logic behind Honda's strategy to give Turbocharged Civic 1.5 petrol with 0-100 dash of 8.x seconds in the Bangladesh market and give the NA CVT dud in India. How can the market study outcome be so poor ?
Finally that leaves us with mostly entry level models and nothing in the premium segment from Honda. Hope Skoda and Hyundai will make the most out of it with Elantra and upcoming Octavia.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:34   #88
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

Well this isn't a surprise. I haven't seen a new Civic or C-RV in ages and the City is not a volume seller either and the Jazz sold here is a generation behind, the Amaze also cannot sustain Honda completely. Like landcruiser123 said, maybe they don't care about India. From the days of the first generation City and Civic to this. Who would've guessed.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:45   #89
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

Closing a plant and now discontinuing their flagship products looks like Honda too is packing their bags.

Last edited by manson : 24th December 2020 at 14:52. Reason: Typos.
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Old 24th December 2020, 14:53   #90
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Default Re: Honda discontinues Civic and CR-V in India

Gone are the days of Honda Siel Cars India Ltd.(now Honda Car India Ltd) They manufactured some serious quality products. The moment they became HCIL, the quality and offering to the customer slipped. My wife owns a 2010 City. No problems whatsoever. Come 2016 my dad bought a Jazz. Sigh what a let down of a car.

Now coming to the topic, there was no better option I believe. Sales of those products never picked up. Profit margins were kept really really high. At this age when the customers are more equipped with the knowledge, Honda should have not made the same mistake with two of their premium products. As far as I can see, the company needs a fresh start from the ground up. Give us a product like the 1st gen city or the Civic, we would love to take you on with arms wide open. But sigh, gone are those days.
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