[Adorablejim]

Originally Posted by sgmuser

For me the most important thing to observe is that the launch will happen in South Africa. How this will be achieved? With all the legal issues and embargoes FCA has against this Thar design? Mahindra should clarify this first before going out and do this. This might only give bad press. You don't want someone to slap legal case against your product as a copycat whatever the real problem behind.

There are no legal issues for Mahindra to launch or sell the vehicle in South Africa. The legal battle between FCA and Mahindra in U.S was for the ROXOR. However, Fiat Chrysler had lost the US round of the legal battle, after court allowed Mahindra to sell the Roxor in Jeep’s home market. The US International Trade Commission (ITC) had cleared the decks for Roxor’s sale by saying that its design does not violate Jeep’s intellectual property rights for the Wrangler.

Stellantis, has taken Mahindra & Mahindra to court in Australia due to the design of the Thar. It is reported that Mahindra’s Australian website teased an image of the Thar, requesting people to register their interest. It was believed that Mahindra was looking to launch the new Thar 4×4 off-roader in the market. Stallantis is of the opinion that the design of the Thar infringes on its intellectual property as it looks similar to the Jeep Wrangler. Stallantis claims that Mahindra must not launch the vehicle in Australia, and if Mahindra intends to launch the vehicle, it should notify Stallantis 90 days in advance.

There is absoultely no EMBARGO in selling THAR in any international market especially South Africa.

Who knows if Mahindra has made any changes to the front end of the 5 door Thar to aviod any kind of conflicts? So, lets not rush into any conclusion; rather wait and watch as to what transpires during the unveil on 15th August 2023.

[sgmuser]

Originally Posted by Adorablejim

There are no legal issues for Mahindra to launch or sell the vehicle in South Africa. The legal battle between FCA and Mahindra in U.S was for the ROXOR. However, Fiat Chrysler had lost the US round of the legal battle, after court allowed Mahindra to sell the Roxor in Jeep’s home market. The US International Trade Commission (ITC) had cleared the decks for Roxor’s sale by saying that its design does not violate Jeep’s intellectual property rights for the Wrangler.

Stellantis, has taken Mahindra & Mahindra to court in Australia due to the design of the Thar. It is reported that Mahindra’s Australian website teased an image of the Thar, requesting people to register their interest. It was believed that Mahindra was looking to launch the new Thar 4×4 off-roader in the market. Stallantis is of the opinion that the design of the Thar infringes .

Quoting your own words as my reply to you. You have repeated what we all know and my question still stands valid.

Do we think this case is about just front fascia ? It's too deep. Thar is a solid threat for Wrangler (100k in 3 years is not a small number). 7OO and N launched and not Thar in SA and ANZ, so we can watch out for some fun in the coming days/weeks. Already legal team of FCA started their work I can assume. Things work differently in US legal system especially in trademarks and copyrights. Also, this is not going to be an isolated issue but rather FCA will fight until it's death as JL is their only bread winner not just now but for many decades.

I have Wrangler JL 2019 and Thar. So I can say a thing or two about Thar and JL. Thar can do almost 80% of what JL can do at 50% or even less cost. So, this is a serious threat for JL. Imagine this gets launched and affects 20-30 percent sales of JL and then brings in new buyers for the rest of the sales as they couldn't afford JL. Then what will FCA do if Chinese bring their magic into the game and fight FCA? As many knows these boxy big offroaders are mostly used as mall haulers in the US and in the gulf. The majority doesn't need sophistication like Dana axles etc. Thar is good enough for a reasonable percentage if not for majority. Add Mahindra's Thar as a cheap but rugged, reliable utility vehicle which can carry out most of the JL work is a boon for many farm owners plus the modification options.

On the modified Thar option, a modified Thar is how much modified? Is it worth/viable for someone like M who still has models running for 20-30 years. Bolero, Scorpio, XUV 5OO (coming back soon) still on sale even after they have successors? If you observe closely enough, M usually milks their models to the core and beyond.

Finally, FCA will only will want to stop this rather than a compensation.

There are more questions than answers.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

This is just a bad photoshop image used by Autocar. Hope the real version will be better.

Autocar has a good record of realistic renders. The rear door can be any better than what is shown only if the increased length is also used to stretch the wheel-base. Which would need additional structural rigidity of the chassis as well to prevent any more flex than its current parameters allow.

I expect wheelbase will be almost the same. The rear door will be "smallish" though it will open really wide on heavy hinges. The extra space will be used largely for cargo, but may be used for an utilitarian "rural transport" type option later on in 2025-26

Pure speculation in the best traditions of TBHP of course

[Bsreecharan]

The comparison of Thar with Jeep Wrangler is like comparing Zara with Gucci. A Gucci buyer, who is typically expected to be image conscious will never buy a Zara. It’s not about doing the job alone, it is mostly about how one feels behind the wheel, the feel of the interiors etc.

[vellatechie]

Originally Posted by Bsreecharan

The comparison of Thar with Jeep Wrangler is like comparing Zara with Gucci.

A better comparison is a real North Face /Canada Goose jacket and the first copy from aliexpress.
Its 80-90% same as the original at fraction of the price. But it's not the real thing.

First copy doesn't make it bad. Definitely makes it incredible vfm. But you're not fooling anyone.

PS: I own a Thar. I absolutely love it. And yes, I will end up owning the 5 door within the next 3yrs for sure.

[RDS]

Originally Posted by Adorablejim

There are no legal issues for Mahindra to launch or sell the vehicle in South Africa. The legal battle between FCA and Mahindra in U.S was for the ROXOR. However, Fiat Chrysler had lost the US round of the legal battle, after court allowed Mahindra to sell the Roxor in Jeep’s home market. The US International Trade Commission (ITC) had cleared the decks for Roxor’s sale by saying that its design does not violate Jeep’s intellectual property rights for the Wrangler.

This is incomplete information. This was just the first case, may be in 2018.

However, after that FCA actually won the case in 2020 and Mahindra had to modify Roxor significantly.

Modified Roxor was relaunched and the new one looked nowhere near the original Roxor. Then courts allowed Mahindra to sell the new Roxor.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/auto.hi...930240411.html

Now in late 2022, FCA has appealed against Roxor modified design again.

Forget a Thar, FCA is not allowing Mahindra to even sell Roxor in US which is sold only as recreational vehicle, and is no competition to Jeep Wrangler.

Roxor cannot be driven on roads and has to be modified by the owner to make it street legal!! It is a hit among the farmer community there.

No doubt about it, wherever Jeep is registered, it will come hard against Mahindra until and unless Mahindra makes changes to Thar design that makes it look "significantly" different from Jeep.

[drift2race]

Originally Posted by RDS

No doubt about it, wherever Jeep is registered, it will come hard against Mahindra until and unless Mahindra makes changes to Thar design that makes it look "significantly" different from Jeep.

Mahindra has already hinted at substantially redesigning the Thar especially the 5 door version quite a bit so that it no longer resembles the Jeep Wrangler and then selling it in western markets such as Australia and even United States .

[sandeeprawat]

Originally Posted by drift2race

Mahindra has already hinted at substantially redesigning the Thar especially the 5 door version quite a bit so that it no longer resembles the Jeep Wrangler and then selling it in western markets such as Australia and even United States .

Do people really want a non-jeep looking Thar?

On the other hand I wonder if Roxor/Thar really cannibilises Wrangler sale. If at all most Thar owners are prospective Wrangler buyers. I would if I could

[drift2race]

Originally Posted by sandeeprawat

Do people really want a non-jeep looking Thar?

On the other hand I wonder if Roxor/Thar really cannibilises Wrangler sale. If at all most Thar owners are prospective Wrangler buyers. I would if I could

Even i wanted to buy a wrangler and went to the Noida Sector 63 Jeep showroom to drive one but was dismayed by the fact that it has immense downtime due to lack of spares and the damn thing has really low fuel mileage (which would go even lower once we factor in the modifications i had planned to do) . I am patiently waiting for the 5 door Thar and this would be my go to vehicle for modifications once released .

[Vishal.R]

Originally Posted by drift2race

Mahindra has already hinted at substantially redesigning the Thar especially the 5 door version quite a bit so that it no longer resembles the Jeep Wrangler and then selling it in western markets such as Australia and even United States .

It's already there and have started to market in other countries as well, it's called Scorpio N

[drift2race]

Originally Posted by Vishal.R

It's already there and have started to market in other countries as well, it's called Scorpio N

You are mixing two different product lines , Its specifically the lifestyle vehicle segment which was Mentioned in the statement aka the 5 door Thar .

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by sandeeprawat

Do people really want a non-jeep looking Thar?

On the other hand I wonder if Roxor/Thar really cannibilises Wrangler sale. If at all most Thar owners are prospective Wrangler buyers. I would if I could

Jeep=Mahindra, as long as it looks like a Mahindra, that would do.

Wrangler has a few problems that those who can pay for it understood very well, it comes with solid axles , slow steering and an overall suspension and drivetrain that is more suitable in America than India, you won't feel that there is anything in there that is worth the premium you paid for it. so the affluent off-road crowd has already chosen their premium off-road vehicle - Defender.

Those who don't want to spend so much already knows that Thar is fast, agile and can deal with the worst of city traffic , fast highway driving as well as off-road driving - what more do we need?!

So Wrangler isn't as desirable as many would think, at least in our market and Thar , well that's not something to debate anymore.

[Ton Ami]

Originally Posted by ToThePoint

Is it just me or are those rear doors really wierd? Hope humans can get in/out without any acrobatics!

Don't worry, it will be all fine in the final product. Its just a rendered image.

[Jimmyjimmyaaja]

Hopefully Jeep allows Thar to sell in the US market with the condition that Indian govt removes CBU duties on the Wrangler in India

[Cresterk]

I hope they give this a higher state of tune in diesel and position it as their flagship offering in India. Unlike the Alturas, people will be a lot more willing to pay the premium here.