[surjaonwheelz]

The only two Marutis that interest me are the S-cross and XL6

Rest of their portfolio is just old and outdated now.

Alto Spresso Celerio WagonR Ignis Baleno Dzire
Ciaz Brezza Ertiga

They can't change the build quality overnight, so might as well work on better interiors, infotainments and variant wise features. Please do away with the manual winding rear windows, it's been more than a decade with the automated options!

Also their Automatic (not AMT) portfolio is poor
Baleno CVT
Ciaz, Brezza, Ertiga 4 speed TC. This is a reliable option but needs an upgrade.

[superbad]

I agree with all the points made against Maruti, however we also need to understand that car penetration in India is still absymally low compared to other countries, the reason being that the capital required to buy even an entry level automobile is out of budget for most of our people in Tier 2 & Tier 3 towns. In that respect, Maruti still offers the best combination of value for money, reliability, frugality & service, which is paramount for these people as opposed to qualities like safety, build quality, features & bling etc. Thus I would say Maruti still has a few years of dominance left before they start diminishing.

[DicKy]

Maruti has definitely gone down in the desirability factor.

But if we go by history, can't write them off yet. Maruti has always been weak in R&D and the head honchos themselves have said, "Why invest in R&D when we have tech from Suzuki?" Also not launching the BS6 variant of their 1.5l diesel smacks of arrogance (or cold calculations). Also they maybe small at the global level, but they could have atleast given some good products from their global line-up. Vitara, Swift Sport and the cruel joke of the Jimmy. India is the sole reason for their survival, yet.
But

Wait till they launch their D22 project, Creta rival in collab with Toyota and supposedly coming with full hybrid. It would be their 800, Swift, DDiS, Brezza moment.

Not to say, they have a slew of high riding models in the pipeline. Not sure how it will be without diesel, but the 5 door Jimmy could very well bite off the Bolero's market.

[BrabarusMark]

I work for a used car portal and one very common pattern I see is that the budget segment is flooded with Maruti cars. Altos, WagonRs, Dzires, Swifts are all sold in the budget category. The main take away from this is that people are selling their cars and are looking to move up. Usually, people like familiar products. It's why people with iPhones only upgrade to iPhones.

With Maruti, there is no upgrade path. People with budget hatchbacks are in the market to upgrade to a compact SUV. Maruti only has the Brezza and the S-Cross, both of which on first impression look the same and if you sit inside might even feel the same as a Swift. Go over to a Tata Nexon or Harrier, and the experience is world's apart, despite the flaws.

People are fine with buying unsafe cars (Seltos popularity) but they are not fine with buying stagnant cars. Here stagnant means looking and feeling cheap even after so many years of being in the market. This is true for Suzuki global as well, where apart from the Jimny, they are stagnating. Meanwhile the Dacia Sandero is the cheapest car in Europe and looks like it can give the Swift ZXi a run in its mid variant.

At the moment, only Renault has cracked the budget segment with the Kwid and the Triber. If they bring the Sandero, Jumper, and e-Kwid, Renault could very well replace Maruti as the value car maker. The only thing that will wale Maruti up is if there shares tank and investors lose confidence. This is unlikely since they can bring in the sales numbers every quarter with minimal capital expenditure.

[TJ02]

I think they are greatly relying on Toyota for EV and worst case Toyota buying them out eventually. Maruti does not have a market outside India so obviously if you keep selling <6 Lacs car in volume you will never be able to have high R&D budget. Maruti is back to late 90s when they had volumes due to Esteem, Zen and 800. As soon as Hyundai, Daewoo, Ford, Honda came their market share eventually started falling. Swift was the major reason for their turn around. Either they need a product like that which is difficult given how competitive Koreans have become over the years. As rightly pointed out by GTO in the next 7 to 8 years if they do not invest in R&D and use cutting edge technology Koreans might be on the top position.

I had a bought ciaz AT in 2015 that time automatics were not in great demand and a 4 speed AT is understandable but even after 6 years you are selling 90s technology its a shame. No turbo petrol when all the major auto players have a turbo engine offering. Lack of features like sunroof, good music system, 6 airbags etc. Major reason why the new generation does not have Maruti even on their contender list.

[PrasannaDhana]

I have been a Maruti loyalist. We have had atleast one maruti in our garage at any point of time in the last 2 decades. A total of 7 maruti cars owned till now.

We bought marutis in the past because

1. They were reliable
2. They were comparatively value for money
3. Cheap service costs and good fuel efficiency
4. Lack of better(safer) options in the same price range

Fast forward to 2021. I just made a purchase decision for my new car and maruti sadly didn't even feature in my options list.

What maruti should have done :

1. Focus on R&D in making safer structures, across all ranges from A segment till C2.

2. Focus on R&D in developing their impressive 1.5 diesel compliant with BS6 regulations

3. Source actual non-obsolete ATs like the SVAG and Tata/Hyundai groups

4. Venture into D1 segment, given there are over 5 lakh c2 customers who use marutis and atleast 10% of them would probably come back to them when they upgrade

5. Offer atleast one aspirational product like how Mahindra has the Thar. Jimni should have been on sale.

But what maruti does now:

1. Marketing Ignis and Spresso shamelessly as SUVs

2. Being content with making money with Toyota partnership

3. Proudly calling their shuddering AMT and archaic 4 speed AT as automatic convenience

4. Immoral flexing of their Luke warm 1.5 liter petrol as a fast performer in their ads.

5. Their service costs are no more as economical as they used to be.

6. Calling their cars safe by mentioning they conform to Bharat crash test regulations when their cars score a nasty 0 in Global and Latin NCAPs.


Maruti is like that state board student who is being exposed to ICSE examinations. While Tata is that kid who has changed his methods and started to put hard work in succeeding in exams, Maruti just enjoys getting a 35% just pass.

Look at September market share, Maruti gets less than 40% from usual 53% market share, while Tata splendidly got a 14%, which is a sea of difference from their single digit share in the past.

[Aniket Verma]

Not defending Maruti, but:

1) A major portion of India lives outside metros and in Tier 3/4 towns, tehsils etc. and which car maker has presence there in the form of Dealership / FNG / Agents?

2) Yes, many people are moving upwards in their aspirations, but are they leaving a vacuum behind them? No, they are being replaced by twice the population with same (old) purchasing power. So what can this new population afford? Please remember, beside Cost of vehicle, Costs of upkeep and mileage spends are also critical for this group.

3) Among all the makers which car is most reliable or hassle free? Don't start on Safety, other than TATA and new models of Mahindra / Renaults / Nissan, nothing is available under Rs. 10 lacs.

4) With ongoing Chip shortages, production of existing models is being reduced drastically, just imaging the mayhem at Maruti's scale if their dependency further increase on Semi Conductor usage in the short term.

Maruti did had it's share of wrong decisions:

1) They believe that the premium customer also want mechanically reliable car, but alas, they also wanted flaunt value (looks, features, sun roof)

2) Betting against Diesel

3) They are still sticking to AMT and inhouse engines and apparently not investing in newer engines. But these can be easily outsourced.

Is all lost for Maruti?

I don't believe so, at least not now. Most of their current products are leading respective segments by big margins.

They do have potential game changing products lined up: Updated Celerio/ Baleno / Brezza and new launches like Jimny, Vitara, Across (Rav-4) (If they deicide to introduce these in India).

Otherwise, they will continue to maintain their current volumes (though market share will decrees) and happily play the role of Cash cow for Suzuki.

[Swarup5]

This thread certainly made me think. A common thought process that all Japanese carmakers seem to be having.

Majority of Indian population
Most of India still runs on Two wheelers, there is a huge potential for anyone to grab. An average person would certainly settle for a car which is small ,easy to park, maintain and good mileage. Maruti has still nailed it brilliantly.

Minority of Indian population
Although not a small number , the population of a car buyer who chooses to buy MUV, CSUV,SUV is not a volume which Maruti will be rattled with. It is only the elite few who can afford, compared to the vast majority of the population.
People who qualify : Urban population , Gen Y who are now getting fat salaries , Second generation of car buyers.

Cash surplus, lower interest rates
Thanks to sudden growth , de growth and resurgence of Indian economy in recent years . The economy is ensuring cash surplus in a majority of the population. Government wants us to spend more and contribute to the growth.

Very Rapid change in technology, regulations , Norms
ADAS , BS Norms, 2030 EV goal, NCAP , Rising Fuel costs , Feature rich Interiors are just not a comfortable zone for any legacy company who isn't lean enough to evolve with good volume.

Hypothetically

Let's say, the sleeping Jap( Like a Sumo wrestler ) wakes up with all cylinders firing .

- They are staring at a humongous competition already happening in the 10-20L bracket .

- The volumes which typically is enjoyed by Maruti is certainly not attractive enough for them.

- Once they make cars and invest heavily in R & D , they might stare at the EV/ Hybrid revolution, wanting them to invest again heavily .


Looking back at their typical customers who want Mileage , Affordability etc , the Jap goes back to sleep.

This is now happening in loop until we( Majority of Indians) wake up.


Cheers!

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

I have been a Maruti loyalist.

Fast forward to 2021. I just made a purchase decision for my new car and maruti sadly didn't even feature in my options list.

Look at September market share, Maruti gets less than 40% from usual 53% market share, while Tata splendidly got a 14%, which is a sea of difference from their single digit share in the past.

Agree 100%. I'm in the exact same situation, where I'm looking to upgrade my ride, and I'd love to buy Maruti for the sheer peace of mind they offer, but I simply can't find a single Maruti vehicle that meets my needs.

Maruti has quite simply decided that we Indian must only drive structurally unsafe tin cans with petrol engines and dated interiors. This is simply unacceptable in 2021.

And this predicament of not being able to buy a Maruti, even though we WANT to buy a Maruti is now reflecting in the financial performance too.

For the first time, Hyundai has higher margins than Maruti.

https://m.economictimes.com/industry...w/86817755.cms

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

N
Who needs an EV when CNG is almost as economical and freely available across the country. Range issues can also be alleviated with larger tanks now possible. The availability of CNG is only improving all across the country!

Perhaps not many in this forum share this view of mine, but I am uncomfortable having a CNG tank in a car, where there is potential for leakage, fire and perhaps susceptible to vagaries of hot weather, not to mention degradation of performance and long term wear and tear on the engine. So it had either be a proper fuel like petrol/diesel or hybrid like Camry or a pure EV. I would have liked the Govt and manufacturers to pursue option 2 (Camry like hybrids) for the forseable future, instead of wasting agricultural resources on producing ethanol.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Perhaps not many in this forum share this view of mine, but I am uncomfortable having a CNG tank in a car, where there is potential for leakage, fire and perhaps susceptible to vagaries of hot weather, not to mention degradation of performance and long term wear and tear on the engine.

To add, running a car with CNG results in substantial reduction of the performance of the engine, when compared to running the same engine with Gasoline.

Whereas EVs provide better acceleration than their equivalent Petrol Powered Models, due to the instant torque.

[dnabhi25]

I completely agree with GTO and thank you for bringing this across. I visited Nexa dealership in Thane, and it had a deserted look. Moreover I was appalled that the “premium-ness” of Nexa which they once boasted so proudly was missing. I checked out the S Cross as I’m planning to buy my first car soon. I had ‘some’ expectations from the S cross as I expected it to be a notch above all other Maruti products but was disappointed! They have nothing new to offer honestly!

[veyron_head]

Maruti doesn't have even one 5-star safety rated car in their entire portfolio!

Like GTO mentioned in the opening post, this thread made me realize that there are indeed no car conversations around Marutis today. Tatas and Mahindras have upped the game bigtime in terms of Design, Build, safety, tech and value for money.

Maruti's excellent after sales service can only take them so far. Their age old product line with AMTs, 4 speed TCs and no diesel or EV offerings sure seem like a recipe for a market disaster waiting to happen. After all, who would have thought 10 odd years ago that a Nokia or a blackberry would be where they are today. They were market leaders too.

[vjbox]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Let me take the other side:

1) Maruti is a giant in India sure. But parent Suzuki is tiny when compared to Hyundai/Kia, VW/Skoda & SAIC. Except in Japan & South Asian countries, Suzuki is a struggling manufacturer. One cannot expect Suzuki to refresh their product range, invest in engine technology etc at the same pace as other players.

Yep, precisely echoing my thoughts here. So what/ who is Maruti without Suzuki? Lets just think for a second. A manufacturer with a large sales/ service network and reach, then ? At the end of the day Suzuki is the backbone for Maruti when it comes to the engine and the overall tech and Suzuki does not have the muscle power as some of the other giants. Even in the global markets, Suzuki doesn't really have desirable designs except for models like Jimmy and a lot of those cars really look like they were only made keeping India in mind (a large market for sure).

My other point is to this date a lot of us refuse to admit/ acknowledge Maruti in the premium car segments where we have gladly admitted the Tatas and Mahindras (whose cars that were frowned upon in the past) but these manufacturers have really worked on boosting their image and brand value, something I think Maruti Suzuki hasn't really managed till date except for their Nexa initiative. So even if Maruti launches a premium crossover or SUV, I doubt its going to get the attention right off the bat.

My gut feel is they won't really bother with this segment and will rather work to claim the same market share in the EV space by having the Alto/Spresso/WagonR equivalents by pricing them economically. Remember when MS makes an entry into the EV space (soon enough) they can shake the space up. WagonR EV with the right range and price can propel them again.

[Quoter]

How the times have changed. From an all Maruti garage, we do not have even 1 Maruti in our extended family. I was quite shocked (positively) when my Dad, a Maruti fan, refused to buy one 3 years back and went with Honda.
I am sure the Indian management is quite aware of the situation. However, given that most of the R&D for Maruti still happens in Japan, it seems the situation is not entirely in their control. All hopes on Toyota now!!