[DicKy]

Originally Posted by shortbread

The current Vitara is a good package with bland looks. Maruti can revive it with a more attractive design, inside and out. Using a current platform enables them to price this car competitively. I think it's a well thought out strategy.

Originally Posted by bimmer1988

Totally agree with you. Rather I feel Maruti dropped the ball there by not introducing Vitara back when it launched S Cross. That gave Koreans free ride for last 5-6 years.

No problem with Vitara, or even a heavily updated Vitara. It is just that I was expecting a D/T-NGA platform vehicle with a Toyota badge. Not a Suzuki based one.

Atleast hope it has Toyota's hybrid setup, because as far as I see from the reviews, Suzuki hybrid setup is so-so.

[Vignesh Vee]

A friend of mine who is working at Maruti Suzuki confirmed that the Maruti-Toyota Compact SUV is built on the Suzuki Global C platform.

A small proof to believe:





If we check the wheels of both vehicles from the spy image, there are 5 lug nuts with rear disc brakes like the S-cross.

All cars built on the DNGA-A platform (Rocky / Raize) have only 4 lug nuts, and it does not come with rear disc brakes.



DNGA-B (MPV spec) has 5 lug nuts, but it is a long-wheelbase platform used only for MPV's.

According to rumours, YFG and D22 will get the Suzuki K15 engine, so it's a simple job if it's on a Global C platform otherwise, the chassis front end needs to be re-designed, and it's a waste of time and cost.

If they use the Global C platform, they can control production costs by using all of S-cross's existing mechanical, suspension, brakes, and chassis components.

So far, we haven't spotted a single Toyota Raize / Daihatsu Rocky testing in India. Whereas we have Global Vitara in India since 2018 and in 2021, they imported Vitara with 1.4 Boosterjet with 48V mild hybrid spec for testing purposes. All these indicate it's something from Suzuki rather than Toyota or Daihatsu.

It's good that they are using Global C because it's a European platform that has that SUV character (chassis based on bigger Vitara), and it's very robust also, unlike the lightweight cheap DNGA platform which is developed for developing countries.

I guess they are using the S-cross's spec, which means the wheelbase stands at 2600 mm, 75 mm more than Toyota Raize, and a good 100 mm more than Vitara Brezza.

Speaking of engines, I don't think Maruti will agree to use Daihatsu's 1.0 3cyl turbo,
CV Raman said during the launch of S-cross 1.5 petrol that, "People will prefer a bigger capacity engine compared to a downsized one instead of checking whether it's Turbo or NA".

Moreover, 3cyl in Creta rival and 4cyl in Venue rival? Toyota does not have a good small capacity 4cyl engine so certainly, It will be the Suzuki K15B with 12v mild hybrid and K14C Boosterjet with 48v mild hybrid as an option or, Hybrid system could be from Toyota (Yaris hatchback was spotted in India during testing)

Or, It can be the new K15C Dualjet with the proper Suzuki hybrid system, which can run on pure EV mode for low-speed applications as we saw in 2022 Vitara.
1.5 petrol unit with electric motor produces a combined output of 115 bhp and 138 Nm.

Check the highlighted sentences,




Basically, It's a Maruti Suzuki car from Toyota's factory.
It's more Suzuki than Toyota, MS might export this car as 5th Gen Vitara in global markets. Vitara is due for a generation upgrade.

Side profile of D22 and S-cross, Check the wheels it is exactly the same, wheelbase and overhangs are also quite similar.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Vignesh Vee

A friend of mine who is working at Maruti confirmed that the Maruti-Toyota Compact SUV is built on the Suzuki Global C platform...A small proof to believe:...If we check the wheels of both vehicles from the spy image, there are 5 lug nuts with rear disc brakes like the S-cross.

All cars built on the DNGA-A platform (Rocky / Raize) have only 4 lug nuts, and it does not come with rear disc brakes....DNGA-B (MPV spec) has 5 lug nuts, but it is a long-wheelbase platform used only for MPV's.

There it goes. That was the first thing I checked and consoled myself that the new Avanza also has 5 lug nuts, so this would be a DNGA based one. But the overall look of the test mules is too much Suzuki like. Also, like you said. The Euro market Global C platform should be better than the emerging market DNGA, even if DNGA vehicles have done good in crash tests. Like a BHPian @amitjha086 had said.

Originally Posted by amitjha086

Then we went to check the Raize ( pronounced as in Rise). It was imported directly from Indonesia and appeared so much like Brezza. The built quality was poorer than Brezza and door panels were filmsy. The interior was a compromise too.

Originally Posted by Vignesh Vee

Moreover, 3cyl in Creta rival and 4cyl in Venue rival? Toyota does not have a good small capacity 4cyl engine so certainly, It will be the Suzuki K15B with 12v mild hybrid and K14C Boosterjet with 48v mild hybrid as an option or, Hybrid system could be from Toyota (Yaris hatchback was spotted in India during testing)

But then, news like these, makes it more confusing.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...nes-india.html (Scoop! Toyota starts building strong hybrid engines in India)

Just hope the hybrid is from Toyota's tech.

[Vignesh Vee]

Originally Posted by DicKy

But then, news like these, makes it more confusing.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...nes-india.html (Scoop! Toyota starts building strong hybrid engines in India)

Just hope the hybrid is from Toyota's tech.

This Hybrid system won't come in Maruti-Toyota compact SUV. The production of this hybrid engine started just 2 months ago while the development of Creta rivals began in 2020. The development is almost complete, only 6-8 months of testing remain.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by DicKy

But then, news like these, makes it more confusing.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...nes-india.html (Scoop! Toyota starts building strong hybrid engines in India)

Just hope the hybrid is from Toyota's tech.

Toyota will need a tested and proved hybrid tech to power the Fortuners & Innovas of the future. I believe this is why they have started assembling and testing these hybrid powertrains in India.

Toyota's biggest and most profitable models are arguably India's most popular long distance mile munchers (if affordability is an issue then the alternative is Scorpio/Bolero? My take is rather than the next Maruti SUV, Toyota's inhouse hybrids will power the Innova and Fortuner where they enjoy a commanding premium over the competition.

EVs and their range will therefore be an issue. Hybrids will be the way to go.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by Vignesh Vee

This Hybrid system won't come in Maruti-Toyota compact SUV. The production of this hybrid engine started just 2 months ago while the development of Creta rivals began in 2020. The development is almost complete, only 6-8 months of testing remain.

That is not true. It will be the Toyota Hybrid System that will be powering the Creta rival from the Suzuki-Toyota Stable. The hybrid system is modular in nature and is compatible with wide variety of Engines. The Creta rival will likely be powered by the lowermost range of 1.5-1.6L engine. The Innovas and Fortuners may be coupled with a 2.0-2.2L engine which is what maybe undergoing trial production now.

The Suzuki in-house Hybrid will not come to India in all likelihood and will be restricted to Europe and Japan only.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

The Suzuki in-house Hybrid will not come to India in all likelihood and will be restricted to Europe and Japan only.

This is interesting. Read it along with the news that Suzuki now gives an AMT in international Vitara while its 6 speed TC transmission is coming to India. Also look at the age-old steering wheel in the new European S-Cross and the newer flat-bottom wheel in new Baleno here. What is the reason for its new-found fondness towards India, that it provides newer / "costlier" technologies / models in India? Some reasons may be:

1. They are now convinced that India has greater potential than they thought. Actually they should repent on not manufacturing their best / costlier models in India for the last 10-15 years. Swift sport, Jimny, Vitara...

2. As their biggest market, they now think that India has to be given better treatment.

3. The only way to stay afloat in Europe is to provide cheaper alternatives compared to other manufacturers.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

.....What is the reason for its new-found fondness towards India, that it provides newer / "costlier" technologies / models in India? Some reasons may be:

1. They are now convinced that India has greater potential than they thought. Actually they should repent on not manufacturing their best / costlier models in India for the last 10-15 years. Swift sport, Jimny, Vitara...
2. As their biggest market, they now think that India has to be given better treatment.
3. The only way to stay afloat in Europe is to provide cheaper alternatives compared to other manufacturers.

Here in Japan, it's a general feeling that developing markets like India, China are markets today where customers are easily swayed by what is different and unique in their vehicles compared to others in their peer group.

Be it a DRL(absolutely useless in India in most areas and most seasons if you read its origin history), an Air purifier (I wish people actually checked the fine print before using one even at homes), a Sun Roof (the less said the better about its utility), or a co branded audio system (In itself, not a brand proposition but implementation in India is similar to Hasselblad camera system In One plus phones) etc etc.

The point is Suzuki now understands that bling sells and gives a feeling of technological superiority and desirability. Hence it's focus on introduction of items like HUD and bigger touch screen audio and throwing about names like Arkamys etc. After all India is Suzuki's biggest market. Earlier they lacked the ability to do all this. But Suzuki now seem to be acquiring the ability to do all of the above and more.

The introduction of Hybrid though is purely for survival in an era of tougher CAFE norms. It was the Japanese government which pushed Suzuki and Toyota together in their quest to achieve a big three in Japan similar to USA.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

customers are easily swayed by what is different and unique in their vehicles compared to others in their peer group.

Speaking of that, do you have any idea if the rumours about this SUV being developed for a five star NCAP score are true? They've been close with the Vitara Brezza, but now the new assessment protocols will be in force (though Toyota has been achieving four and five star scores in Latin NCAP under very similar protocols). It would be a selling point at least for Toyota (I don't expect that Suzuki will use the result in marketing even if they achieve it) over its big competitor the Kia Seltos which only achieved three stars even in a single offset frontal crash. Suzuki is unlikely to engage with Global NCAP because of history but Toyota has been a strong performer in all three projects (Latin, Africa, India) and has often used the ratings in marketing.

[sumeethaldankar]

So if the new upcoming twins are both Suzuki's then what is Toyota's contribution to Maruti? Fact is Toyota seems to be like the lazy guy who in school will copy the class toppers home work claim it as done by himself. I hope the Hybrid tech is atleast from Toyota.

[sbm]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Here in Japan, it's a general feeling that developing markets like India, China are markets today where customers are easily swayed by what is different and unique in their vehicles compared to others in their peer group.

Be it a DRL(absolutely useless in India in most areas and most seasons if you read its origin history), an Air purifier (I wish people actually checked the fine print before using one even at homes), a Sun Roof (the less said the better about its utility), or a co branded audio system (In itself, not a brand proposition but implementation in India is similar to Hasselblad camera system In One plus phones) etc etc.

The point is Suzuki now understands that bling sells and gives a feeling of technological superiority and desirability. Hence it's focus on introduction of items like HUD and bigger touch screen audio and throwing about names like Arkamys etc. After all India is Suzuki's biggest market. Earlier they lacked the ability to do all this. But Suzuki now seem to be acquiring the ability to do all of the above and more.

The introduction of Hybrid though is purely for survival in an era of tougher CAFE norms. It was the Japanese government which pushed Suzuki and Toyota together in their quest to achieve a big three in Japan similar to USA.

Wow! That is some out of the box thinking. I was wondering what happened to Maruti that they are suddenly offering HUDs etc in hatchbacks, but reading your post made it clear. At the same time, it is surprising how they took so much time to realise this and missed the rally in the CSUV segment altogether. By the way, are there any more sightings of the test mule reported? And any guesses on what could be the price band of the hybrid model?

[landmaster18]

It would be very good to see something like the following in the final avatar. The Suzuki A-Cross or the Toyota RAV4, depending on which type of individualized styling one prefers.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

This is interesting. Read it along with the news that Suzuki now gives an AMT in international Vitara while its 6 speed TC transmission is coming to India.

Having read everything in this thread, I am not sure if the 6 Speed TC is coming to India. We only have rumours about it. If global Vitara is sold with 6 speed AMT, then our Brezza may also come with that. The 6 Speed TC coming to India is a pure rumour as of now. Hoping against hope that this 6 speed TC does make it to India in Ertiga and Brezza.

[reinhardt93]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Having read everything in this thread, I am not sure if the 6 Speed TC is coming to India. We only have rumours about it. If global Vitara is sold with 6 speed AMT, then our Brezza may also come with that. The 6 Speed TC coming to India is a pure rumour as of now. Hoping against hope that this 6 speed TC does make it to India in Ertiga and Brezza.

It could or could not be. It seems like they are trying push the s-cross as a more premium offering compared to the Vitara.

Either way I really hope we get the 6 speed Torque converter in some of the cars they sell here. Maybe we could get the Vitara as the replacement for the Brezza since we have only seen one set of leaked pictures for Brezza and we don't even know if it is genuine.

[sbm]

Guys, among all this discussion about ATs pls excuse me to ask, is there a possibility of an MT version in either Suzuki or Toyota hybrid system?