[naikameya]

This is not a Creta competitor with its feature list. It does have looks going in its favour but that is true for most Renault cars, they are fresh and better looking. I feel this is an alternative to Ertiga with a few funny bits mentioned above. They have to price it well to survive.

I feel their strategy feels stupid at multiple levels. Other than the mentions above it is also dumb to use a name from a much lower segment and add a suffix to it.

[krankstter]

Noticed this during my drive back home yesterday in Chennai (Along the Siruseri - Vandalur Zoo Route). Couldn't take a snap from the front (since I was driving) but it had the Citroen bonnet logo cutout crease in the wrap. It didn't look long enough to be the Citroen C3 Aircross but I can't help but wonder. Any clues as to what this might be? Just from the rear?

[ashutoshb]

I watched the presentation at the time of the launch.

Citroen was pretty clear, that the Aircross has an option of 5+2 seater. Meaning, the third row is good enough for kids. And maybe for adults for a short ride.

But, right after, all the media persons started calling it a seven seater. Which is not the same. When I hear seven seater, I think of seats for seven adults.

So, not entirely Citroen's fault that people started bringing in the Triber and Ertiga in the picture. Where the only thing common is the seven seats.

The other two are MPVs and this one is a proper crossover with 'SUV' design cues.

In the 4.3 metre segment, two additional seats for kids is indeed a feature not many competitors will have.

-- --

The cheaper variants of both Creta and Seltos have the 1.5 petrol with 116 ps.

The Aircross is expected to get 120 ps or higher.
Going by the reviews of the Citroen C3's turbo petrol engine, it should come out as a better performing car.

-- --

I don't know about the rest of the country, but the NCR is full of Creta / Seltos base variants with after market accessories.

Its an industry on its own at the Karol bagh market.

I am only assuming Citroen thinks that with similar or more features, factory fitted, it can pull these customers away.

-- --

Citroen C3 Turbo petrol is 8.43 lakhs ex showroom. Even if we add three lakhs to the price, its around 11.5 lakhs. Point to be noted that this engine was being imported earlier, now its being made here.

If the Aircross top variant is between 11.5 - 12 lakhs, it will surely pull in buyers from both segments.

-- --

Citroen should seriously think of offering projector led headlights and led tail lamps. Even if they offer these as accessories, there will be many takers.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by naikameya

This is not a Creta competitor with its feature list. It does have looks going in its favour but that is true for most Renault cars, they are fresh and better looking. I feel this is an alternative to Ertiga with a few funny bits mentioned above. They have to price it well to survive.

I feel their strategy feels stupid at multiple levels. Other than the mentions above it is also dumb to use a name from a much lower segment and add a suffix to it.

True, might have been better to call it the C4 or something

[charanreddy]

All things considered including comparison to Creta, Seltos, Ertiga, Triber, the C3 Aircross has the below positioning issues.

1. The GST slab vs a Triber or any other sub 4M car will not allow this to be priced super aggressively. Less than 4M cars have a 28% slab while greater than 4M have 43% slab, so there is a 15% extra GST citroen needs to pay vs it’s existing line up.

2. Citroen is not an established brand yet inthe country. A lot of the folks will play it safe with their purchases and go for the known brands. This is where Kia and MG as new entrants a few years back played it well. Kia launched a superb product in the Seltos (the safety aspect is a sore
Area) while MG launched a blockbuster product in the Hector at premium but not Uber expensive price points (<20 lakh range ). Citroens decided to launch the C5 Aircross which is closely priced to the Fortuner. it may be a great product in its own right , but it has not sold in high enough volumes to be a brand ambassador..

3. Cheap doesn’t sell in India . Period. There are many many use cases on this, the most famous of this being the Tata Nano. A car is an aspirational purchase for most folks and hence folks will pay a couple of lakhs extra but not skimp on features.


All this considered, I fear no great future for the Aircross. Of course, time will tell..

[shresan23]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

SHORT END OF THE STICK? REALLY?

Is every car sold in India a top end model with all the bells and whistles???

Do all manufacturer offer auto ac from base model in all variants?

What is the percentage of buyers who buy all bells and whistles and those who buy lower mid and mid?

Its actually not about how many people buy it or want it. Its mostly the availability of such features. Yes, practically speaking, a sunroof and all the other bells and whistles are unnecessary, but the fact here is that they want to take on creta and the likes when the car is placed among the other end of the spectrum.

I am not saying this is a bad car by any means. With proper pricing they might hit the jackpot. With good styling and a little bit of aggressive marketing they might appeal to a lot of people who want an suv but dont want an suv esque vehicle.

It is just that, from a brand like citroen, you expect a little more when it comes to marketing. Take Creta for example, with all the overlapping variants and pricing, they managed to attract people towards the top end like sx and sx(o). This is what citroen should be doing imho.

The same c3 in uk gets driver assist, customizations and a bucketload of features, while the same c3 gets a lot less in india. When we talk about citroen we talk about the brand in UK. The fact that they give a semi barebones vehicle as a top end one here, is actually the short end of the stick.

Besides, i didnt mean to offend you, it is just my opinion

[shresan23]

Originally Posted by gck_tourer

Without knowing the price Citroen would charge for C3 Aircross everyone bashing them is unfair. I don't think they said this car will be a Creta rival. This could rival Ertiga with a more powerful engine, sorted ride, better looks and it's certainly not a tin box. Let's hold our horses till the prices are announced before we conclude anything.

+1 to that. It is just the pricing that is left right now. The car is actually very good, just aims long. If they read our posts and decide to price it a bit lower, it will do wonders.

Just imagine this everyone. You have maruti and Citroen in your budget. Where will you go? Almost everyone will say Citroen. As far as i can remember, my favourite brand for a long time used to be koenigsegg when i was a kid, just because it was a foreign brand and a strange name

[KPR]

Originally Posted by shresan23

Just imagine this everyone. You have maruti and Citroen in your budget. Where will you go? Almost everyone will say Citroen.

Few members here, few in social media may say Citroen dude. Most will say Maruti only. Sorry to differ in this. Even Ignis sells more than a C3. I will never leave an Ertiga over a Citroen unless it has an official safety rating or satisfying build. With almost nil dealership and service support in Tier 2 & 3 towns, they are losing out their business from day 1.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by shresan23

Its actually not about how many people buy it or want it. Its mostly the availability of such features.

Besides, i didnt mean to offend you, it is just my opinion

No offence taken but comparing UK and India is not similsr comparison.

Again How many people actually want bells and whistles? Availability of feature which no one buys why do you want to keep inventory of an asset which depreciates from day one of roll out from factory.

What is the percent sales of fully loaded vehicles in India???

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by KPR

Few members here, few in social media may say Citroen dude. Most will say Maruti only. Sorry to differ in this. Even Ignis sells more than a C3. I will never leave an Ertiga over a Citroen unless it has an official safety rating or satisfying build. With almost nil dealership and service support in Tier 2 & 3 towns, they are losing out their business from day 1.

They are profitable from day1.

Rome was never built in a day.

If Citroen offers you a dealership with all finances via Bank arrranged, will you take it?

Its not so simple, ramp up tales time. Getting the right people to be your dealer partner tales a lot of time.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

No offence tsken but comparing UK and India is not similsr comparison.

Again How many people actually want bells and whistles?

What is the percent sales of fully loaded vehicles in India???

@Sagsaw.
Have no problem or grudge against you or anyone or nothing against Citroen in India. We have been having a good discussion. But you seem to bat for Citroen just like you are either the CEO or an investor.

You look at any vehicle on sale in the Creta / Harrier segment. Almost 50% of the sales are contributed by the top variant and if you include the second from the top variant, the share goes up to 75%. For example, if you see Harrier or Safari, Hector / Hector Plus, Creta and Seltos, et. al., no one buys the base variants. Base variants sell more in the budget segment at a ratio of around 50:50. I can vouch for it because I read it on the forum. Also, all brands launch the top variant first and then launch the stripped-down variant.

In India, a car is not a basic necessity but a luxury and a status symbol. It is bought with pride and to announce one is well off. So whatever their issues, they will stick to top the end or one variant down. According to some international research that looked at what the global consumers demand, Indian consumers prefer a lot of tech in their cars including digital displays with touch operations and bells & whistles like sunroof, etc.

Even in the history of Indian automotive sales, cars without features have flunked like the cars I have mentioned in my previous posts. The Mahindra Marazzo has been designed in the US at North America Design Center in Detroit. Mahindra had clear plans to replicate the Qualis for the taxi segment and the plan got ruined due to the improper engine choice and features. All other cars that tried to replicate the Qualis and Innova have failed too.

So please don't get me wrong, but that is what the Indian market needs. Only a small chunk of customers are people who don't want bells & whistles. They too will stay away from the car once it gets branded as failed. Mind you, even the Nissan Kicks, despite having a great engine and gearbox including AT, failed due to lack of such features.

I would like to rest my arguments further on this topic.

Thank you.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

I would like to lay rest to my discussions further on this topic.
Thank you.

I made clear why I am batting for Citroen.

For that matter even Nissan.

Same finishing remarks How many percent of people buy Bells and Whistles fully loaded vehicle? I really dont think the numbers you have given are actual percentage.

Let Citroen live with its own strategy and plan, if they wish they could take Insights from this thread, would save them cost of a full blown research clinic.

Alpha Roger over and out.

[shresan23]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

I made clear why I am batting for Citroen.

For that matter even Nissan.

Same finishing remarks How many percent of people buy Bells and Whistles fully loaded vehicle? I really dont think the numbers you have given are actual percentage.

Let Citroen live with its own strategy and plan, if they wish they could take Insights from this thread, would save them cost of a full blown research clinic.

Now that you quoted nissan i have to mention. I have a nissan kicks turbo xv variant one down from the top. This one has all the basic bells and whistles itself, like touchscreen infotainment, auto start stop, digital cluster and all that and it was placed at 12.50 lakhs. The reason why the name still stands today is because, along with a terrific engine, it came with a pack of goodies with sustainable pricing. I purchased the one down because, budget, but think of it, it failed because of bad marketing.

Its like the iphone pricing, no one really wants a 256 gb phone, but the presence of one and the price of that, makes 128 gb seem more affordable or appropriate. It is just reverse-reverse psychology, if it makes sense.

Creta for the same price offers the s variant which quite literally has nothing. There are 25 variants of Creta and towards the top the only difference is leather upholstery and some fancy stuff. But then why is the sales high? Prestige and Psychology. People who want to show off, will get the top end. People who want the car for what it is under the hood, will negotiate themselves into saying, might as well get the one down, the top end has only bells and whistles. In the end win-win for hyundai. Citroen has to place the top end with insane goodies, to push the mid variant which should be this. If that doesnt happen, some will buy the bare bones. Some will buy the top end and the middle one will get left out due to value for money or lack thereof. In the end, it boils down to lesser profit. It is usually the mid variant that brings most profit per unit.

There is a dialogue i use everytime,

"It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"

In any case, i just hope citroen has it. I really want to go to a stage where i start considering citroen for what it is and not just because of budget.

Their strategy is right,

"target the market that buys a car for prestige"

Because, anyone who looks for functionality and budget and looks for a car to go from point A to B, can choose between the tried and tested Maruti, Hyundai and very rarely nowadays Kia. There is no hope for Citroen there. They have to pierce the prestige wala market

They just have the product mix wrong. IMHO, citroen should include more vain goods in their cars, like those advanced comfort seats or whatever they have in the overseas models and push their fabric like ride quality factor more. They have the biggest advantage of brand name. They just have to capitalise on this.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Base 5 seater could start 8.99L with 1.2 liter petrol 110 hp petrol

My guess based on fact that C3 hatch turbo variants have been discontinued.

Well Citroen today launched Turbo variants of the C3 hatchback from 8.28L to 8.92L

I still maintain 8.99L maybe the base price of Aircross SUV.

[blueather]

Originally Posted by sagsaw

Again How many people actually want bells and whistles? Availability of feature which no one buys why do you want to keep inventory of an asset which depreciates from day one of roll out from factory.

What is the percent sales of fully loaded vehicles in India???

Like huge amount of middle class wants a loaded car.
Enthusiasts are a minority. And besides a compact crossover which seems like an afterthought is far from an enthusiast's needs.
I see a lot of comments on social media like YouTube, Facebook and even on this website that "oh I don't like tech. I'll never buy a car with so many features. I like cars with good dynamics."
But then a car like C3 gets launched and sells like 1000 units per month.

And I'm not ashamed to admit it that I like a car with features like climate control, electronic ORVMs, auto dimming IRVMs. It's hilarious that Citroen cheapened out on a small thing like tachometer. The less said about that the better.