[greenhorn]

I wonder if my etios petrol can handle E20. The brazil market Etios Can, wonder if there are differences?

[nathanjdias]

After reading this article immediately put my hat on and started checking of my 2019 Toyota Yaris is E20 compatible and lo and behold it isn't. The Yaris sold in India has the 2NR FE engine which is rated for a maximum of E10 fuel.

The 3NR FE motor available for the Yaris in other markets is rated for E25 fuel and the 2NR FBE sold in Brazil is a flex fuel engine which can take upto E100 fuel. Neither was offered in India.

Coming to an E20 conversion, I don't think it's going to be so simple. Every part of the fuel system, motor and exhaust which will come in contact with fuel will have to be replaced by corrosion resistant materials. Will be a hard sell for most to open up the entire powertrain for this upgrade.

[Doonite]

Since i have been living in Sydney for the past 7 months, can anyone clarify to me about the fuel we get in Indian bunks. Is it already compulsory e20 or do customers have the choice of getting e10 blended or e20 blended fuel?

[Keneida]

My 2015 K10B Celerio has experienced up to 30% reduction in mileage using the E10 blended fuel. E20 is bad news for everyone who owns an older vehicle. Fuel costs are all time high and the reduction in efficiency is adding to double trouble to the budget of 80% of Indians to say the least. The only way out of this situation is either an EV or a BS6-2 or a BS7 vehicle. For the diesel I think that Govt will add some dye to it like what they do in UK and make trucks run on it with some additional filters. Railways are also rapidly electrifying.

I feel there is a solid case to own an old school Diesel vehicle, It will be far more forgiving than the petrol's for sure.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by Doonite

Since i have been living in Sydney for the past 7 months, can anyone clarify to me about the fuel we get in Indian bunks. Is it already compulsory e20 or do customers have the choice of getting e10 blended or e20 blended fuel?

I think it is a selective rollout. I used to frequent this COCO indianoil outlet(Bangalore) which switched to 100% e20 guns from mid march itself. I was told that they have started piloting this across coco pumps and eventually rollout across.

So I now procure my fuel from other pumps. I dont know how the pricing works but COCO outlets might be forced to dispense e20 followed by rest.

I don't see any reason for giving a choice unless they have different pricing for e20 and e10 fuels. It will be forced down our throat.

[xxhtxx]

Manufacturers like honda, Hyundai, and a few other too were able to make their cars E20 complaint quickly on their existing bs6 engines.
My question here is how much modifications do these bs6 E10 complaint engines really require?
Material complaince is limited Fuel related parts like hoses and lines? Or also the pumps and injectors?
Can manufacturers provide kits for existing bs6 cars?
If this is possible, this should really be done by the manufacturers at a cost.


Apart from the technicalities in the cars, it will be sad to buy e20 fuel without any price cuts.

[one-77]

Two fundamental questions:
- If we are paying for 100% petrol, should we not get 100% petrol?
- If we are being sold 80% petrol and 20% ethanol, shouldn’t the pricing be reflective, as ethanol is much cheaper than petrol?

Can’t we as consumers take legal recourse?

[A. Jodhta]

Completely agree with your sentiments there one-77. But to answer your questions, firstly, we’d be paying for E20 fuel and not “100% petrol” like you said and secondly, I think these paragraphs I’m quoting from an online report will be helpful. Tl;dr - read the last line of post.
Here’s a link to the full article
https://www.91mobiles.com/hub/e20-fu...ts-efficiency/

Will Ethanol-blend petrol be cheaper?
There is currently no confirmation on whether this Ethanol-blend petrol, E20 fuel, will be any cheaper than normal petrol or diesel. In fact, the current version of petrol, E10, is already been sold across petrol stations for the last 6 months. And, although prices have not really gone down in the last few months, they haven’t gone up either. And, this is despite soaring oil prices across the world.

So, in a tricky global situation with Ukraine war and high inflation, it is uncertain whether E20 fuel will bring real fuel savings to consumers or just be a way for the government to reduce their import bill. However, this is certain that as carmakers get ready to sell E20 fuel-compliant cars, the increase in cost will be passed onto the consumer, you. Maruti Suzuki has already confirmed that all its cars will be E20 fuel-compliant from April 1, 2023. And, they will definitely be expensive compared to the previous generations. Will the long-term savings in fuel be worth the extra cost? Past experience says yes, but we will have to wait and see.

“How will E20 fuel impact your vehicle?
Several reports suggest that mileage will take a certain hit when you use E20 fuel in your vehicle. And, a substantial hit at that. Higher levels of ethanol blending (E20) in petrol impacts the mileage of the engines, reducing the fuel efficiency by 6-7%,” Hetal Gandhi, director, CRISIL Research, told the Times of India.
So, the fuel your car took to run 100km will now make it go just about 93-94km, which seems sizeable at a time when petroleum prices are high. However, with a lower GST on Ethanol and now-falling oil prices, consumers might see some respite in final prices as the months go by. Now, it’s up to the Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) to do just that.”

[jono213]

Originally Posted by GForceEnjoyer

Looking at how we can barely be sure of the grade of fuel we are receiving at pumps currently, I think it's high time that we receive clarification on whether or not the cars we own are compliant or not. If they aren't, we should be informed of the changes necessary to do so. Why should we destroy our prized possessions by being forced to put in fuel that's harmful to them?

Heavily agree with this, for someone who's looking to own a few old gems for a while, e20 seems to be a knife in the side of anyone with old cars, I find it really ridiculous that the government is forcing a particular fuel down our throats

[gopa99]

I wonder when OEMs gave the confirmation to the Govt for the move from E10 to E20 what they were actually testing and validating? I know that E20 has more of corrosive tendency apart from bringing in more moisture into the system compared to the E10 fuel; but what exactly are the hardware they tested for confirming this change would be interesting to know. If any OEM guys in here can explain from their experience, this would be good info for all.

[Hayek]

Frankly this entire switch to E20 epitomises the lack of thought, lack of consideration for tax paying citizens and the “my way or the highway” attitude that our Government displays more often than not.

1) E20 is bad for the environment - it encourages cultivation of more sugar cane which is the most water intensive crop in a water scarce nation - and diverts land and water from growing necessary food crops (or if we have surplus food, from being available for afforestation).

2) E20 will damage existing cars and create more urban smog - amply demonstrated earlier in this thread

3) No one seems to have thought about what will happen to the existing car population if this is introduced - forget new cars you buy today. India has about 45 mm existing cars produced in the last 15 years, 75% of which have petrol engines which are compatible beyond E10. The new cars we are debating are less than 7% of the existing population. A switch without labelling in anything less than 15 years is nuts.

4) No one is communicating what the plans are and what is being done today.

Just incredible.

Don’t blame manufacturers - if the government wants something implemented, it must pass a regulation with adequate time to adapt. Until E20 compatibility becomes a regulatory requirement, most will not make E20 cars.

[Chewbacca]

Yesterday I had been to Volkswagen showroom to check out the Taigun. The sales rep informed me that most of the competition has already complied their engines with BS 6.2 standards (that includes E20 fuel compatibility) and that is the primary reason for the recent hike in prices, up to 40K across all manufacturers. Volkswagen has not yet hiked their prices but have started shipping cars with BS 6.2 compatible engines since mid April.

The energy content of ethanol is almost 35 % lower than that of unleaded petrol thus milage and power will suffer however the cost per litre should be much cheaper (with organic Ethanol) so the cost per KM should reduce significantly.

Forget E20, the target is E85 however there are plenty of technical and safety related issues so I doubt if E85 would be a viable target. Ethanol has some undesirable properties, like being more corrosive, also evaporates faster than petrol causing the fuel injectors to freeze and so fuel feeding parts need to be pre-heated. Ethanol sensors are needed to detect the Ethanol content, the ECU would then determine the flow rate and other parameters, the catalytic convertor will need to neutralize the corrosive by-products of Ethanol too. The link below explains modifications needed in ICE cars.

https://youtu.be/mGOTAr36ir4

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Yesterday I had been to Volkswagen showroom to check out the Taigun. The sales rep informed me that most of the competition has already complied their engines with BS 6.2 standards (that includes E20 fuel compatibility) and that is the primary reason for the recent hike in prices, up to 40K across all manufacturers. Volkswagen has not yet hiked their prices but have started shipping cars with BS 6.2 compatible engines since mid April.

BS6.2 compliance and E20 compatibility are two different matters and unrelated. There's no regulatory requirement as of now to make all engines E20 compliant. Hence let's not get confused and say BS6.2 cars mean they can be fed with E20.

There are just few manufacturers who've made their latest production batch of cars e20 compatible. Even the initial batches of Innova Hycross, though BS6.2, were not E20 ready. Toyota just made them compatible and pretty silently(elsewhere discussed on this thread or related threads).

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5550157 (Toyota Innova Hycross Review)

[vamsi.vadrevu]

I'm about to purchase a Nissan Magnite and i was wondering if it is e20 compatible. If not I'll have to consider brezza!

[techieaditya]

Originally Posted by vamsi.vadrevu

I'm about to purchase a Nissan Magnite and i was wondering if it is e20 compatible. If not I'll have to consider brezza!

Every car manufactured after 1st April 2023 has to be e20 compatible, that is the mandate as part of BS6 Ph2 transition. So you don't have to worry!