Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: Larger step forward?
Vista 186 60.39%
Xylo 122 39.61%
Voters: 308. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st January 2009, 16:00   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
1100D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,258
Thanked: 2,762 Times
Default

None actually.

For the Vista, Tata motors found Fiat to lean on in the engine department. The question is not whether Vista is a quantum improvement over the Indica, but whether Tata motors itself evolved to reach the Vista stage. Personally I would have liked to see the much touted 1.4 Dicor unit which was allegedly de-tuned for the Indica platform, on grounds of incapability of the platform to handle the extra power. Now we know that we shall never know! About what the engine could actually offer in the unrestricted form or whether there was any credibility in those tall claims.

For the Xylo, well, I would bank on another upcoming Tata product, which could potentially showcase the coming of age of an Indian manufacturer, namely the Indicruz. Although its still an unknown quantity, but we atleast see its images undergoing worldwide testing. Gives a feeling of reassurance that people from the developed world are actually evaluating it from the design stage itself.

The Ingenio project has been on for quite sometime. In between the Sumo Grande with the 2.2 VTT engine and the roof integrated AC unit has also made itself shown. Who knows if the Ingenio had to go back and incorporate a few features to create its own market niche.

To me both of these offerings aren't really a substantial step forward for an Indian manufacturer. However, I guess, soon we will see better.

Last edited by 1100D : 31st January 2009 at 16:09.
1100D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 17:04   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
karanraheja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 1,929
Thanked: 269 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'd pick the Vista over its Japanese / Korean competition
Quite interesting. Big Compliment for the Vista


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Both have one more weakness in common:

Tata have tried to make the Vista look like the Indica and Mahindra have messed around with the design to make the Xylo look like the Scorpio.

Sometimes it isnt such a good idea to look like your predecessor.

I agree with you.


I would choose Vista. As mentioned after sitting inside you feel there is a big leap forward compared to previous gen. I think Tata is heading the right way. Just if they improve their fit & finish & few niggling problems .
karanraheja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 17:22   #18
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: chennai
Posts: 703
Thanked: 54 Times
Default

you guys talk about indian and other stuff . but do you know the mahindras use so many suppliers who are not indian that i wouldnt use the term fully built indian stuff as such.

Regarding the engine , I still feel that mahindra has outsourced the engine rather than manufactured it .
greatmana2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 17:35   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,923
Thanked: 1,995 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
The Ingenio project has been on for quite sometime. In between the Sumo Grande with the 2.2 VTT engine and the roof integrated AC unit has also made itself shown. Who knows if the Ingenio had to go back and incorporate a few features to create its own market niche.
Actually the launch of the Xylo makes one rethink about the Sumo Grande. That vehicle suddenly looks much better now and it always had more space + it has more power on paper.

All it lacks are pink inserts in the plastics and the cupholders and other stuff from the Xylo.

As far as we've heard from the Mahindra boys in the Xylo thread, the buyers in this segment dont care about plastic quality or handling or safety or NVH as long as they can cram in more people. In the light of these revelations it is time to have a serious relook at the Grande.
Steeroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 17:38   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 188
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

I voted for Vista, as after owning the Old gen V2, when you sit in Vista and drive, you just can't imagine that you are driving a Tata car. Regarding the looks, I don't agree with the comments that it looks like an old gen. Ofcourse the design philosophy is same but it is is no way like the old indica. In real life it looks way better and comes imposing. I think, it has got one of the best road presence among the hatches. Regarding Niggling issues, not sure what they are and which car in that price bracket does not have any.
Regarding Xylo, I did not drive it but I sat inside one and I would say that after Scorpio, we should have got even more improved product than what we got.
rajdoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 18:01   #21
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: India
Posts: 4,347
Thanked: 17 Times
Default

Aah! It's pretty tough.
Both products, in it's own have achieved a lot. But which one is big step forward?
It's a tough one for me to decide.

Vista by itself is a great product. Something we wouldn't have imagined from Tata some years ago. They've delivered well. Apart from the Fiat motor, there're lots of plus points in which Tata has achieved good levels of advanced refinement.

Xylo. I haven't yet seen the vehicle in real. Pictures give me a very bad impression. They've made it look as bad as possible. No marks in this department. I dunno if I'll like it any better with a face to face impression.
Regarding the technological advances, there isn't much I've seen yet. Leaves out a lot to be desired. Even the driveability, handling etc.. (the weak points of a Mahindra vehicle) seems to be where it was. Not much improvements to be noteworthy.
My opinion is formed by what I've read about Xylo and what I've heard from my friends after their Test drives. So, I don't know if I'm partial in this decision but now, my vote goes for VISTA!
speedzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 18:05   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,089
Thanked: 262 Times
Default

This round goes to M&M, in my opinion.
If we're talking about in-house step forward, the Vista cannot really qualify with its imported heart and niggling issues persisting.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 18:37   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,234
Thanked: 228 Times
Default

My vote for Vista.
Its the only 'car' among the two ;-) I mean in my book, a MUV/SUV/Van/Bus/Truck are _not_ cars. No offense to SUV/MUV lovers.
On a more serious note, Vista has improved on refinement while from reports (since I haven't seen the Xylo in person, only in magazines, TV, tbhp), Xylo has done very little other than have lots of space!
On the engine front, Xylo uses Scoprio engines with minor tweaks (so can't say that's a signficant improvement over previous product), while Tata has old engine DLS, Fiat engines for petrol and diesel - no improvement for Tata here either. Thats a dead heat. Hope, Tata will learn from the Fiat engines and tranny for future engines they design !
From a driveability perspective, Vista is miles ahead of Xylo. It seems possible to export Vista with 'export' trim/better quality to (say) Europe, while I can't imagine the same happening for Xylo.
One expected both vehicles to make more progress though. For eg. no ABS/airbags on either...

Last edited by lancer_rit : 31st January 2009 at 18:48.
lancer_rit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 18:50   #24
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 51,194
Thanked: 113,847 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Road mannersl - which SUV /MUV under 10 L have it perfected?
The Innova, Tavera (yup, believe me) and the discontinued Qualis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srh View Post
This is on account of two things: first is that the entire vehicle has been put up in-house.
Let's not kid ourselves here. The Xylo has also used foreign help. To quote from Mahindra press releases:

Quote:
The development work for Xylo started by the end of 2004 and a slew of foreign companies including an Italian company for styling and Lotus Company for dynamics were involved in the development process.
Quote:
Leading vendors from India, Japan, America, Germany, etc., have contributed to the development of the XYLO.
Quote:
To name a few, Bosch, Lear, Motherson, Nippon, Subros, JBM, Spicer, Visteon.........have played a key role in creating the Xylo.
Is there a problem in that? Hell no! Always a good thing to learn...especially when its from people who have been there / done that.

Quote:
The second is that compared to Tata, the resources with M&M are limited and M&M has used its limited resources in a better manner.
Brilliant point. Mahindra have far lesser resources than Tata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
the Vista cannot really qualify with its imported heart and niggling issues persisting.
But then, how many Xylo owners do we have to pass a verdict on its niggles (or the lack of it)? I haven't a doubt that the Xylo will prove reliable. But we have to wait for confirmed long-term reports before confirmation.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:08   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,684
Thanked: 1,442 Times
Default

Those who havent driven a Xylo; its plastics and seat fabrics are far better than of the Tata Safari.

And its engine's more silent than of Innova inside the cabin.

Now, is the Vista Turbo (not the MultiJet) this impressive? Mahindra's is an in-hose engine not a borrowed one and hence kudos there too.
jkdas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:10   #26
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NA
Posts: 513
Thanked: Once
Default

This comparo is great for the moment, IMO though might sound funny to some but the advent of Nano will catapult Tata to stratosphere.

Lotus is becoming synonymous with Mahindra!

I agree with GTO, Tavera, Qualis & Innova offcourse have good road manners.
bhp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:12   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 7,009
Thanked: 1,614 Times
Default

as a tata fanboi, my choice is obvious.
a friend of mine was torn between the xylo and the scorpio. He TD's both and found the xylo's boat like rocking too annoying. Its a pity because he loves everything else about the vehicle. he's now planning to get the scorpio instead, but really wishes mahindra had gotten the suspension right.
to me , the xylo is a big step for mahindra, but not quite the quantum leap the vista was for tata , but a slightly bigger leap than the sumo grande. If and when the tata launches the ingenio, this achievement too will be matched by them

PS: people crying foul over the quadrajet engine are forgetting- the vista does have an in house engine - the TDi. with the cable operated gearbox, its almost as good , and far better than the indica turbo with the same engine. the fiat engine is a gem, agreed, but the Tdi's engine is qute competent, and better than the ones in some of its more expensive competition ( skoda fabia anyone )

Last edited by greenhorn : 31st January 2009 at 19:15.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:18   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,684
Thanked: 1,442 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post

PS: people crying foul over the quadrajet engine are forgetting- the vista does have an in house engine - the TDi. with the cable operated gearbox, its almost as good , and far better than the indica turbo with the same engine. the fiat engine is a gem, agreed, but the Tdi's engine is qute competent, and better than the ones in some of its more expensive competition ( skoda fabia anyone )

Do test drive one and revert
I bet you will be surprised.
jkdas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:38   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 7,009
Thanked: 1,614 Times
Default

which one ? the fabia or a vista tdi?
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2009, 19:48   #30
BHPian
 
dockap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Mangalore
Posts: 845
Thanked: 378 Times
Default

i have a vista its a great car but my vote goes to the xylo
indica has evolved over several years but the xylo is a completely new platform for M&M and seems like they have done a very good job
dockap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Key decision points for Audi A4 versus Mercedes C220 versus BMW 320D ashishkashyap Luxury, Imports & Niche 40 30th April 2017 19:35
Tata Manza versus Mahindra Verito raj_srini Sedans 121 28th February 2012 22:07
Tata Indica xeta versus Tata Vista SAFIRE 65 rohantn Hatchbacks 17 16th November 2011 01:53
M&M launches Xylo variant - Xylo D2, with new Engine H3LIOS The Indian Car Scene 61 11th November 2010 22:34


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2018, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks