[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Agreed. The middle row in an Innova is also not particularly spacious and sliding it forward makes it a pain on long distances. By the way, you can only slide it forward in the 7 seater version (which is actually practically only a 6 seater - 2+2+2).
I'd agree to your choice completely. Much more rational.

It shows that you have not used the Innova extensively, but unfortunately have an ill informed opinion. Not only is the Innova middle row spacious, it also slides forward in the 8 seater version with bench seats in middle row. And no, it is not a recent feature but has been there since Innova was launched.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

If the relative value delivered by each vehicle is looked at, keeping in mind that both are in the MUV business, then the two vehicles can indeed be compared.
The main points of difference between the two are Space (Xylo), Handling (Innova), Interiors (Xylo), Refinement (Innova), Power (Xylo) and Price (Xylo big time!). Overall, on VFM, Xylo wins hands down.

And one more thing - At some point in my life, for about 2.5 years, I had to ride an Innova to work and back, on a 130 km round trip each day. Believe me, when I say that the only seats worth sitting in were the Co-Driver, and the Middlebench window ones. Middle bench middle seat, has no side supports, and the 3rd row has absolutely no space and a very bad seating position. Xylo by comparison has far more space inside. Now, if only M&M could do something to improve the handling a bit...

First of all, I absolutely disagree that Xylo has better interiors than Innova!! I hope by better interiors you mean Quality of plastics, fit, finish, longevity, how they look as they age etc etc. If you mean space than Tata Winger has much better *interiors* than XYLO.

One can only wonder how the middle seat in Xylo would feel, considering that the vehicle pitches and heaves substantially more than the Innova. I rented a Xylo last June and no one in my family wanted to rent it again. On a 70000 km run taxi, the plastics had worn out, the AC vents loosened up and there was a good amount of bounciness in the 85 km ride we had from meerut to delhi.

On the other hand, every one liked the Innova that we had rented the previous week, (with 181000 kms on odo) much more in terms of refinement, comfort and ease of ingress.

Originally Posted by beejay

And compromise on the middle row space.

I test drove both extensively too, and settled for the Xylo.

Just goes to show that all of us have different needs.

While I say all this, I completely agree that XYLO is more VFM than Innova and I completely hate the price that Toyota has put on it. But it has to be more expensive. Ask yourself - can Mahindra sell the Xylo in the same form at the same price point as Innova?? BTW, it is able to sell the Scorpio pretty well!

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

It shows that you have not used the Innova Extensively, not only is the Innova middle row spacious, it also slides forward in the 8 seater version with bench seats in middle row. And no, it is not a recent feature but has been there since Innova was launched.



One can only wonder how the middle seat in Xylo would feel, considering that the vehicle piches and heaves substantially. I rented a Xylo last June and no one in my Family wanted to rent it again. On a 70k km run taxi, the plastics had wonr out, the AC vents loosened up and there was a good amount of bounciness in the 85 km ride we had from meerut to delhi.




Just goes to show that all of us have different needs.

While I say all this, I agree that XYLO is more VFM than Innova. But it has to be - can Mahindra sell the Xylo in the same form at the same price point as Innova?? BTW, it is able to sell the Scorpio pretty well!

True, the Xylo doesn't handle that great. But, it is not as bad as it has been made out to be. It cannot be compared to the excellent road manners of the Innova though. However, I have had to travel extensively in the Innova (more than I care to), and none of the ones I used had sliding middle seats on the 8 seater version. And, I'd stick to my stand that leg space in middle row in Innova is not as great as Xylo. Xylo, any day is a more sensible buy, provided you drive it sedately. To each man his own.

[beejay]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

While I say all this, I completely agree that XYLO is more VFM than Innova and I completely hate the price that Toyota has put on it. But it has to be more expensive. Ask yourself - can Mahindra sell the Xylo in the same form at the same price point as Innova?? BTW, it is able to sell the Scorpio pretty well!

Buffetfan,

I have noticed in all the posts made by you that you are a die hard Toyota fan. Good, its nice to be that way. Nevertheless, it always best to be rational.
I still recollect a post where someone once said, Innova's do not come with a tow hook.
That's overdoing it.
As someone rightly said, everyone has different needs. Innova fits you. Good.
There are a few Xylo taxis running up here and I have seen some people wanting a Xylo over a Innova for their trips. So...

Enjoy your ride.

[abhi1881]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

there are somethid ngs which cannot be compared with an excel sheet.

+1 to that. in my case, something related to heart. Thats why bought Innova VX last week on my daughter's birthday. Even ruled out Aria. Must say, it is indeed really a delight, barring some minor concerns(again subjective according to the ones needs) which are there in every car i guess. Also inline with every word GTO has said about this vehicle.i guess a fellow bhpian also commented "that you cannot go wrong with innova"

Just to add, every single person who own innova and whom i enquired, was saying good words about it. (again subjective but important to me)

[Puffdamgcdragon]

I own a workshop and we are the authorised Toyota Service center ( just washing and oil change) for the dealer here. We get a lot of the Z plated Innova Luxury taxis as tourism is big in these parts.

I always get impressed by the lack of body and suspension noise and and the overall new & tight feeling of the Innovas which have covered much more than a lakh kms, that's saying a lot coz the roads are steep and quite rough in parts around here and most veh. suspensions and clutch plates give up before 40,000 kms.

The Xylo is too new a product to be coming to private workshops, but we specialize in repairing Mahindra vehicles and do major suspension work on an average, 6-8 mahindras (Scorpios & Boleros) a week. The Bolero's quality, in particular is quite bad with suspension and alignment issues even before it covers 20,000 kms. By 50-60,000 it feels like an old vehicle..

Oh and the quality of plastics between a Toyota Innova and a Mahindra- any Mahindra is light years apart. This only comes to the fore once the veh has covered about 3-4 years and some 50-60,000 kms. All these facts cannot be highlighted in an Excel Document.

Also, as stated earlier, I have yet to hear of any owner complain about the Innova - And i earn a living, attending to customer complaints of Mahindra & Tata vehicles

[Puffdamgcdragon]

Boy, am i gonna piss off a lot of Mahindra & Tata owners....

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Puffdamgcdragon

Boy, am i gonna piss off a lot of Mahindra & Tata owners....

I too am a Mahindra owner and partly agree with your post. I have seen Scorpios which have run 2 lac kms and whose engines are robust but their interiors have almost gone bust.

[roy_libran]

Agree with the above 2-3 posts completely. But, interiors can be refurbished multiple times at a fraction of the cost differential that one has to pay up for the Innova, and still live with lesser space and power. Hence, I believe that the long term ownership costs of M&M is lower.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I too am a Mahindra owner and partly agree with your post. I have seen Scorpios which have run 2 lac kms and whose engines are robust but their interiors have almost gone bust.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Agree with the above 2-3 posts completely. But, interiors can be refurbished multiple times at a fraction of the cost differential that one has to pay up for the Innova, and still live with lesser space and power. Hence, I believe that the long term ownership costs of M&M is lower.

+10.

I have a mahindra as well as a toyota. mahindras are more prone to small issues but maintainence, repair & service charges are cheaper compared to toyota. even parts are much much cheaper. so in the long run, a mahindra is obviously cheaper to maintain.

but if we talk about core reliability ignoring the costs involved, innova wins hands down!

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by beejay

Buffetfan,

I have noticed in all the posts made by you that you are a die hard Toyota fan. Good, its nice to be that way. Nevertheless, it always best to be rational.
I still recollect a post where someone once said, Innova's do not come with a tow hook.
That's overdoing it.
As someone rightly said, everyone has different needs. Innova fits you. Good.
There are a few Xylo taxis running up here and I have seen some people wanting a Xylo over a Innova for their trips. So...

Enjoy your ride.

Thanks for your advise. I am not a die hard Toyota fan and have complained about them in my initial posts. I am die hard Baleno fan and I will anyday swap my Innova with the Baleno that I have.

Still Innova is a rational choice in my view, even if it is a bot more expensive than the competition. The peace of mind, fit and finish is worth it.

I just italicised a portion of your remarks. I am not sure what you meant by that! What seems rational to one may not seem so to another. All of us try to maximise happiness for the money spent. As I said earlier, getting maximum number of seats or bells and whistles for the money spent may maximise happiness for some and may not for others.

My Innova has a tow hook, only it is not as ornamental as an Indica so one has to bend down to reach it. Another case of people forming opinions about Innova through posts and not real life experiences !

Originally Posted by raj_5004

+10.

I have a mahindra as well as a toyota. mahindras are more prone to small issues but maintainence, repair & service charges are cheaper compared to toyota. even parts are much much cheaper. so in the long run, a mahindra is obviously cheaper to maintain.

but if we talk about core reliability ignoring the costs involved, innova wins hands down!

'

Raj,

I do not keep a driver (have tried 4 in the past and it just did not work) and the time spent in fixing niggles just takes away almost all the free time I have. With the Innova, I just have to go to the service centre at the scheduled service. I also believe (you can confirm better) from initial experience that the Toyota Workshops are a bit more customer friendly.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by abhi1881

+1 to that. in my case, something related to heart. Thats why bought Innova VX last week on my daughter's birthday. Even ruled out Aria. Must say, it is indeed really a delight, barring some minor concerns(again subjective according to the ones needs) which are there in every car i guess. Also inline with every word GTO has said about this vehicle.i guess a fellow bhpian also commented "that you cannot go wrong with innova"

Just to add, every single person who own innova and whom i enquired, was saying good words about it. (again subjective but important to me)

Compeltely agree. This is a car that even my wife loves to drive around. I could not believe that someone who found my Baleno extremely painful to handle could take such a liking to this elephant

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Agree with the above 2-3 posts completely. But, interiors can be refurbished multiple times at a fraction of the cost differential that one has to pay up for the Innova, and still live with lesser space and power. Hence, I believe that the long term ownership costs of M&M is lower.

Long term overall ownership costs of many other 7-8 seaters is lower than Innova. That includes Sumo, Maruti Van, Tata Winger, Tata Ace, Tata Saxari Lx and many other.

It is like saying that overall ownership costs of Indigo is lower than Honda City. And since both carry 5 persons, the Indigo is a better buy., w/o considering reliability, comfort, feel inside the car, time spent in service centre, how will your car look 4 years old and what kind of pride will you have driving it etc etc.

Do I agree? NO!

[beejay]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Thanks for your advise.

I just italicised a portion of your remarks. I am not sure what you meant by that!

You are welcome, Advise is something I always like to give. After all its free.

Now, what I meant relates to some of your previous posts.

1. You were of opinion that the Innova can be tweaked by a Petes box to gain performance.

2. Slide the middle row forward for better 3rd row space.

Now both 1 and 2 can be done for the Xylo, too cant it?

No doubt, the Innova is a good car. Congratulations on your buy. Drive safe.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Raj,

I do not keep a driver (have tried 4 in the past and it just did not work) and the time spent in fixing niggles just takes away almost all the free time I have. With the Innova, I just have to go to the service centre at the scheduled service. I also believe (you can confirm better) from initial experience that the Toyota Workshops are a bit more customer friendly.

Yes, toyota A.S.S is million times better than Mahindra's & thats a fact.

But seriosuly, even my scorpio has never given me too much of an headache. sometimes a door squeaking, some tightening of rear seat & thats about it. All this is taken care of when the car goes for normal services every 5000 kms. yes, maybe 2-3 unscheduled visits to the A.S.S had to be made in these 40k kms of my scorpio. so i wont say its too bad.

but yes, as i said, if you ignore the costs involved, toyota is much easier & better to maintain & run.

[mooza]

A couple of my thoughts below :

1. The Xylo was launched in Jan 2009, so it's nearly two years since the launch. Considering an average of 2500 to 3000 units being sold every month, this would translate to around 50,000 units sold (someone please correct me with the exact sales volume, if available). I am yet to hear of any major problems or niggles so far.

2. Very few pre owned Xylos are up for sale, when I search for the same. Looks like very few owners want to part with their Xylos !

The above, IMO, speaks a lot about the vehicle in itself.