[46TheDoctor]

Somehow i see that Toyota's downtrend in India has started slowly.

Few of my observations:

1. Innova sales are gradually falling and they are much below the 2017-2018 numbers and start of this downtrend is seen much before the Covid days, so cant be blamed on the pandemic.

2. In the past, Fortuner continuously used to clock close to 2000 nos per month which has come down significantly; especially the gap with the Endeavour numbers has been reduced significantly.

3. I see poor strategic decisions like discontinuation of Etios siblings which were very affordable to buy and run and Corolla which was very respected in that class. Toyota never launched diesel AT option in the Corolla which could have been a great success. And continuation of the Yaris which was a flop to start with and i dont see it getting significant traction in the market due to stiff competition from compact SUVs and lack of a diesel engine.

4. Over ambitious pricing with their international products like RAV4, Camry hybrid, Land Cruiser, Prado, etc. Lexus sales numbers are already shameful to talk about.

5. Then, this badge engineering tie up with Maruti Suzuki which is just diluting their brand value in my opinion.

Toyota still has a great brand value here and also has a great international product line up out of which they should be manufacturing a couple of products (like RAV4) here so that they can offer indian consumers good VFM proposition. Trying to sell RAV4 here for upwards of 60 lakhs leveraging only on good brand value is just a waste of efforts and opportunity. This car can be a great success here if priced between 35-40 Lakhs OTR.

I hope Toyota learns that indian buyers' taste and budget are evolving rapidly. Also, they need to learn that indian market is not Price conscious but Value conscious and they should rectify their pricing strategies learning a few things from the Koreans. Otherwise, their fate wont be much different than so many other global brands which failed to sustain here.

[TwinTurbo]

I'm laughing and getting annoyed at the same time, 60L for RAV4! Toyota has gone nuts and I don't think so they're interested in our market now as they were before.

BTW, they had this plan of bringing back the Prado as a CKD model, what happened to that?

[CARDEEP]

Another Toyota massive rip-off after Velfire. It's a CRV competitor, which is also overpriced by few lakhs for what it offers.

My cousin bought the new GLA & RAV4 in Canada, but I'm sure he would laugh hysterically at RAV4 being sold at double the GLA price.

I fear it would only help the Koreans & Chinese sell more than Japs.

[sv97]

I think Toyota's management has forgotten that Lexus already has the NX300h at a price lower than the RAV4 and I don't know who would pick up a RAV4 over a Lexus.

This move is similar to what they did with the Yaris it was never selling well and the only variant which people thought was good (J CVT) they increased the prices by more than a Lakh to make its sales approach 0.

[VRJ]

I was going through the news section in Autocar when I spotted this. I read the headline and I was like WHATT? Toyota is finally coming to their senses and it’ll be a perfect car for people (me) who don’t want an MPV Innova and would rather prefer a SUV. I assumed it would be priced closer to the Innova and Toyota would put in the 2.4 Diesel engine with an auto tranny. I was super stoked and opened the article and I saw an estimated 60L ex showroom price. I was taken back a second and I thought how dumb and irrational can Toyota be? What did India do to deserve this step motherly treatment? Indians purchased and keep purchasing a tonne of over priced Innova’s and Fortuner’s and we keep making the company rich while they treat us like a third world country. These words are coming from a Toyota loyalist, an Innova and a Fortuner owner. We didn’t even test drive the Endeavour, we straight up walked into the Toyota showroom and got the T Fort. That’s the trust we and many others have in Toyota and there’s no other brand that’s sold in India that I personally trust more.

I believe Toyota is amongst the very few brands in India that people are willing to pay a premium for their reliability and resale value. It doesn’t mean they loot us in broad daylight. Why can’t they invest a billion dollars or half a billion in India? What’s stopping them? Aren’t they the second or third most valuable automotive company in the world? If Volkswagen with below average reputation in India can invest a billion in India, why can’t Toyota with very high reputation do it? If a newbie like Kia can invest 2 billion dollars, why can’t Toyota? Toyota’s top level managements decisions baffles me. Why are they so scared to invest in India that they have to resort to cheaply rebadge Suzuki cars? They’re ruining their own brand image. One look at Toyota’s USA webpage shows you how they look down at the Indian market. Of course, the sales in the states are very high and India can never match those numbers. Why can’t they at least try? If priced rationally, people will definitely buy the RAV4, Sienna MPV, Corolla Cross, 4Runner and every other SUV in their range. Use the 2.4 and the 2.8 Diesel engines in all of them. Such fantastic engines they are. Easier said than done, I know. But at least, give it a try. Rant over.

[DicKy]

Should have seen that coming.
With TKM's history of CBU pricing, it was bound to incur all the tax/customs/duties on its full listed price.

But dayummm. 60 lakhs ex-showroom is just borderline crazy.
If they are at all testing the waters with a CBU before local assembly, then atleast absorb some of the price to get some respectable sales. A C300d is cheaper than this Tucson rival's supposed price tag.

Never thought they would bring the Rav4, cause it would conflict with their cash cow Fortuner.

And then TKM plans to bring the Rav4 as a replacement for the Prius as their hybrid halo model. They got the Camry, got the Vellfire. Yeah, everyone gets the idea.
Now stop trying to influence the law makers and just bring some affordable full blown hybrids.

Still can't understand why the Corolla Cross is not in their plans?
It's the Rav4's low cost alternative.
Has a full blown hybrid.
Replacement/Alternative for the Corolla.
Doesn't affect the Suzuki lovechild/lovechildren.
They can price it along the Innova without cannibalisation.

The only reasonable one they got is the stretched Raize to rival Creta

[landcruiser123]

I can understand if they want to sell the 86 at INR 60 lakh or the Landcruiser at INR 1.5 crore as these are flagship vehicles.

How does Toyota manage to recruit people who propose to sell the RAV 4 at 60 lakh? If Toyota wants to sell the Rav 4, they should have the on-road price from 20-30 lakh INR. If they do that - the Harrier, Hector, CR-V, and Tucson will be dead overnight.

Any reason why they aren't considering the Corolla Cross for India?

Originally Posted by 46TheDoctor

1. Innova sales are gradually falling and they are much below the 2017-2018 numbers and start of this downtrend is seen much before the Covid days, so cant be blamed on the pandemic.

2. In the past, Fortuner continuously used to clock close to 2000 nos per month which has come down significantly; especially the gap with the Endeavour numbers has been reduced significantly.

I agree with all other points, but 2019 has been bad for the car market in general and it is the bigger vehicles that get hit badly. People can postpone upgrades, but not first time purchases.

I know a friend who doesn't regret postponing his plan to upgrade from the old Innova to an Innova Crysta in mid 2019. But many people who were making first purchases (mostly smaller cars) went ahead.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by 46TheDoctor

I hope Toyota learns that indian buyers' taste and budget are evolving rapidly. Also, they need to learn that indian market is not Price conscious but Value conscious and they should rectify their pricing strategies learning a few things from the Koreans. Otherwise, their fate wont be much different than so many other global brands which failed to sustain here.

I fully agree with BHPian 46TheDoctor, Toyota needs to stop being greedy. The market is changing fast and has become a lot more dynamic. They simply can't bank on the reliability of the Innova and fortuner as reliability is now a given on almost all of the brands.

Globally, Toyota has a lot of cars capable of shaking their current segments if launched here and priced well. I just hope that 60 lakh rupees pricing remains a rumour only, hell that is BMW X3 territory

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Toyota India wakes up, plans a slew of SUV's, starts with the Rav4 in CBU form.

Toyota RAV4 SUV India launch by mid-2021

Petrol-hybrid premium SUV likely to be imported under the government’s 2,500-unit homologation-free allowance.

The message is loud and clear IMHO.

Everything useable in the Toyota portfolio (apart from the trusted Innova and Fortuner) will come from Maruti Suzuki. Looks like Yaris was the last of their own bets - and now Toyota India management just wants to earn their bread from the Maruti Suzuki partnership.

To keep up the 'image' of the real Toyota - we will be getting the occasional CBU cars, variants, media drives and all the publicity that goes with it.

[locusjag]

I've been a customer in the North American market and even then, the Rav4 didn't cut it for me. And I was looking for a frugal family car, not a premium car.

But gentlemen - then again - the Indian automotive market is in a glut. Let's face it. You can build a home for the cost of a truly aspirational car in our market. 50% of a car's price (or more) consists of taxes. And what is it, 70% of fuel prices, paid for us by way of taxes?

Why should a CBU imported 60 lakh Rav4 be any more absurd than a 40 lakh made in India Fortuner (no offence to its respective owners)? Call it reliable or whatever, but there's no way that that car is worth that much. Call me dumb - but I can't see the taxes; I can only see the potential hole in my wallet and that damned car in front of me.

This right here is vaudeville where anything is possible. And we are smack in the middle of it as ticket purchasing customers. All we have to do is to step out of the tent, express your sincere sorrow to the clown who's sulking outside, and go home. Stay home. All of man's troubles come out of his inability to stay put inside a room.

[WhiteSierra]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

60 Lakhs for a RAV4 is outrageous! The car should ideally be priced between the Innova and Fortuner to gain traction in the market. I have no words left for Toyota if they launch this at 60L . It should ideally compete with the Tucson and Compass but they are pitting it against the Big Germans!

Toyota's plan should be called how to kill a nice product with its PRICING

A colleague of mine bought a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid in U.S for $32,000, that translates to INR 24 Lakhs. Toyota pricing this 60 Lakhs is pure stupidity. They killed Prius the same way! Rather than importing it as a CBU, they should localize parts and manufacture it here. When Hyundai can bring in many models, why can't Toyota?

[avishar]

Has an automotive company in India been this disgustingly lazy?

The Toyota, should do the honours and quit the country. Many a automaker has burnt their fingers in India, but atleast they tried. Toyota has in its entire existence in the Indian car market made any effort to grab marketshare.

Right from the get-go when they imported the tooling of the then discontinued Kijang from Indonesia and sold it as the Qualis since then it has been phoning it in. The world's biggest carmaker is now down to selling rebadged Suzukis in India. Infact that is the only thing that is stopping it from loosing marketshare. Then what does Toyota stand for? If stands for rebadged Suzukis then why bother will selling at all, just pick a stake in Suzuki and enjoy.

Honda has tried harder in India than Toyota ever has. Renault, Skoda-VW, Tata, Ford-Mahindra, they have all failed but have never given up. Still trying, launching new products, thinking out of the box, committing to bring India-specific models. Even Nissan is bring the Magnite for gods sake.

Why can't Toyota develop a dedicated compact SUV for India?

Where is the C-HR?

The Corolla Cross?

The RAV4's competitor is the CRV, not the Mercedes GLE, Toyota. Why can't you manufacture it here?

Why not take a risk and get the Corolla hatchback?

Could have got the Sienna instead of the Vellfire.


Toyota has a galaxy of cars in its portfolio. Infact thanks to its dominant position in the Japanese domestic market, Toyota has a wide range of small hatchbacks which are usually not sold in Europe/USA. Had it tried it could threatened Suzuki all these years, but Toyota never had the interest to do so. Even in the premium category Toyota has some very interesting SUVs like the Venza too.


They could atleast launch this, the Yaris Cross. It is perfect for India!





But no. Toyota won't. Even when they are sitting with a factory with 50% capacity utilization. They would rather import 50 CBUs a month instead. Pathetic.

Originally Posted by locusjag

Why should a CBU imported 60 lakh Rav4 be any more absurd than a 40 lakh made in India Fortuner (no offence to its respective owners)? Call it reliable or whatever, but there's no way that that car is worth that much. Call me dumb - but I can't see the taxes; I can only see the potential hole in my wallet and that damned car in front of me.

Fortuner is made in many countries accross the world, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam etc. The selling price in each of these countries all range between Rs 25 to Rs 35 lakh same as that of India. In other words, nobody is selling a cheaper Fortuner elsewhere.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by avishar

Why can't Toyota develop a dedicated compact SUV for India?

Where is the C-HR?

The Corolla Cross?

The RAV4's competitor is the CRV, not the Mercedes GLE, Toyota. Why can't you manufacture it here?

Why not take a risk and get the Corolla hatchback?

Could have got the Sienna instead of the Vellfire.


Toyota has a galaxy of cars in its portfolio. Infact thanks to its dominant position in the Japanese domestic market, Toyota has a wide range of small hatchbacks which are usually not sold in Europe/USA. Had it tried it could threatened Suzuki all these years, but Toyota never had the interest to do so. Even in the premium category Toyota has some very interesting SUVs like the Venza too.

Toyota does have the Rush compact SUV for developing markets.

Also, why hasn’t Toyota launched the Agya & Calya in India? They would give stiff competition to the Alto/Triber. They are again made only for developing markets but with an adequate 1.2L NA engine.

As you rightly said, lazy indeed. However, Toyota isn’t going to quit India anytime soon.

[CEF_Beasts]

Toyota Hilux India launch under consideration

The Toyota Hilux pick-up truck is being evaluated for a launch in India. Widely considered to be one of the hardiest vehicles on sale, it comes with an enviable reputation for long-term reliability and mechanical robustness. Unlike something like a Bolero pick-up, the Hilux is relatively expensive to build and will go up against its only real rival here, the similarly specced Isuzu D-Max V-Cross.
*
* Built on the same platform as Innova and Fortuner
* Hilux could be manufactured here
* Targeting a starting price of around Rs 15-16 lakh to take on Isuzu V-Cross
* Both 2.4 diesel and 2.8 diesel, the latter with 500Nm, being evaluated
Parts sharing will give the Hilux a key advantage
Built on the same IMV platform as Toyota’s popular Innova and Fortuner, the Hilux shares engines, gearboxes, four-wheel-drive systems and suspension components. Even the ladder-frame chassis, which is longer and more robustly built in the Hilux, is similar in construction. The best bit is that, since both the Innova and Fortuner are produced in India, keeping costs down won’t be difficult at all.
2020 Toyota Hilux: Similar but different*
So how big is it? The Hilux is considerably longer than either the Fortuner or the Innova, at 5,285mm. It is built on a longer 3,085mm wheelbase and, to help handle the load better, the rear suspension uses more utilitarian leaf springs. To make it a better load hauler, the Hilux also has shorter gearing in the first three gears, and the 2.4 and 2.8 diesel engines have been tuned to deliver more torque at low engine speeds. The 2.8 diesel, in fact, makes a huge 500nm of torque.
The nose of the truck is also similar in basic profile to that of the Fortuner. The look, however, is very different and more ‘truck-ish’, with its massive grille and more workman-like chin. What makes the Hilux very useable is that the cabin is very functional and comfortable up front too. Sitting in the back won’t be as comfy as stretching out in the back of a Fortuner, but legroom apart, you can be quite comfortable here too.
Is there a large enough market for the Toyota Hilux?
While the lifestyle pick-up truck market in India is in its infancy Toyota is hoping the Hilux will appeal to those who want a combination of a practical load hauler and a comfortable SUV. Potential customers include wealthy farmers, country-home owners, industry and government, who would need a hardy runaround for a variety of roles.
Roughly half the price of a Fortuner
What could convert more and more people over to the Hilux, apart from the 1.5x1.5-metre loading deck at the rear, could be the price. Toyota insiders claim the company is targeting an aggressive Rs 15 lakh starting price for the entry version of the double cab, and with more luxurious and better-appointed versions likely to be available for around Rs 20 lakh, the Hilux could appeal to a wide range of buyers.

Source: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...eration-418321

[Venkatesh]

Toyota Hilux India launch under consideration.



Built on the same platform as Innova and Fortuner. Hilux could be manufactured here.
Targeting a starting price of around Rs 15-16 lakh to take on Isuzu V-Cross.
Both 2.4 diesel and 2.8 diesel, the latter with 500Nm, being evaluated.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...eration-418321