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Originally Posted by Jaggu True and my bad lol, why the linea in particular? I havent heard any horror stories so far from the 2 linea owner's i know of |
Hey, on the contrary, I love the Linea (especially diesel). I was just replying to someone elses post.
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and all the immediate friends and family are happy with their cars/brands.
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Correct. Yet in India, the largest brand loyalty comes from Honda, Toyota, Maruti & Hyundai. There is clearly a distinct trend here, based on actual ownership experiences. For the record, for all of the Ford Ikon's supposed reliability, they have poor customer loyalty.
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Surprisingly the 2 skoda's that we have in extended family are also running fine
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Octavia diesels? I wouldn't be surprised.
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Hyundai diesel's were the only horror story from my side.
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All 3 Merc's they have, are abused beyond any of our wildest imagination.
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Both surprising. See, that's exactly what I mean. Giving one or two experiences here & there counts for peanuts. What we are talking about is reliability, cost of ownership, long-term durability over a longer period. That's when its the law of averages coming into play. And teh fact is, Honda & Toyota score the best when it comes to long-term reliability, lowest part failure rates & resale.
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On this aspect of maintanence, the Optra's, Sparks (all my uncles have bought one each making it 4 when last counted) and the lone Tavera are the least fuzzy.
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Two of the cars are Korean while the last is Japanese. Koreans do take the fight to the Japs, in fact Hyundai is credited with keeping Honyota prices in check worldwide.
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In india am not sure this works 50% of the time, marketing over rides brand loyalty
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I disagree. A customer who has paid with his own money for your product will ONLY return if he has been satisfied with the long-term ownership experience. That probably explains why I'm not going to be on the market for a new Benz anytime soon, premium image be damned. The market offers enough alternatives for premium options, if that matters to you.
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Most of the time brands fail due to dealership and A.S.S more than the actual product.
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Honda's dealerships are strictly average overall, yet their products continue to sell. Thus, you certainly cannot credit their success to the competence of their dealers. Believe you me, one of the reasons I chose a Lancer over a City in 2000 was because of Ichibaan Honda's shoddy management. Of course, it's a different thing that the Vtec lured me back, strangely, to the same dealership 4 years later
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Classic case Honda took a long time to get a grip of TVM market, just because it didnt have full time assistance there added to that was the premium price tag. I dont know if things have changed or not, maybe Immortalz can comment.
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Have seen them making effort, but clearly there is a long way to go before they match Toyota standards in aftersales.
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he is the first person who complained of high cost @ high mileage and decided that he will never buy a Toyota, inspite of me trying hard to convince otherwise.
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Value for money and dealership network matter here to a great extend.
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Our's is a very price sensitive and an evolving market.
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Spot on! The sub 10 lakh segment is all about VFM & price sensitivity. Just the fact that the ANHC is a sales leader says a lot of its VFM factor relative to the competition. I mean, this is the mass market talking with their own money. Literally putting their money where their mouth is. Except for the SX4, the Verna petrol & Linea petrols will never match the ANHC in overall cost of ownership. Starting with their resale.
It's a free market out there so lets change our style of thinking. NO ONE is forcing anyone to buy the Honda City @ 8.5 lakhs ex-showroom. If you think its overpriced, don't buy it. However, just the fact that the mass market seems to disagree with the ANHC's lack of value speaks volumes?
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I respect Honda for their engineering prowess, especially when it comes to high precision engines and gearbox. But i would quote an old gentleman "Jap cars are like Reynold's pen, built with precision, made to 100% tolerance. But never replace the refill coz the body will soon crack, so just use em and throw em out." On the other hand "European & American designs are like Mont Blanc, tolerance is at 200% you can always replace the tip and then continue as if nothing happened, yeah you will need a cloth every morning to wipe the ink off after refill, and leave you with a messy hand".
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Classic man!
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Last but not the least dont charge me an extra premium for having a H tag on my grill.
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Again Jaggu, what is that 1 lakh premium getting you?
1. That 1 lakh will be recovered at the time of resale, especially with the Verna & Linea?
2. WAY better performance, and the best engine technology?
3. The best fuel efficiency?
4. Thumbs down to the lack of alloy wheels & climate control, but there isn't a single product flaw. Not like the Verna with its boat-like handling and horrible boat-like ride quality (just ask Sam) or the Linea's lack of performance and interior fit / finish, company rep and others?
5. Best-in-class reliability. Sure, we can debate that the other cars will be reliable, but the Honda will overall be that much more.
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What i meant was this is also a trend, now Toyonda are catching up fast Internationally, thanks to the inability of other brands to evolve faster. Too many factors which are more related to management than engineering, if you really ask me. If am not mistaken the model range of Toyota cannot be matched by most of these other biggies, in short its volume selling from top to bottom and consistent quality that helps these japs.
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Well said.
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See i dont dispute the quality and reliability part of japanese engineering, but i feel its over hyped in India. Especially if its used to add a lakh more to the price tag.
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Jaggu, do you feel that the
Fortuner is overpriced as well?
Or the Altis, some variants of which can get you a larger more comfortable Hyundai Sonata?
Or the Swift diesel, which is a lakh more expensive than the larger better riding Indica? After all, the Swift diesel isn't exactly the blemish-free car is it?
How about the Innova which costs 2.xx lakhs more than the Xylo, an MUV that matches the Toyota in space & beats it in power & well as equipment level.
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With volume the price should come down, which generally happens when they position the products abroad. Then why not in India?
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Not so, Jaggu. Even in the States, the largest car market, Honyotas command a premium for their cars. Hyundai tries to beat them with the cheaper Sonata + better features for a lower price.
Further, when we speak of volumes, why single out Honda? Did the Swift prices come down with selling 15,000 cars a month of the same platform (Swift + Dzire)?