Tata Nano Fire Incidents. EDIT: Tata's analysis on page 34

acidkill · 25th March 2010, 13:39

Well, a product recall from TATA would be fairly ironic. But in any case i wish that TATA resolves the problem soon (both technically and from a PR perspective).

The nano's aspirational value for lakhs of Indians who seek to buy their first car in the coming years deserves to live on

CPH · 25th March 2010, 15:02

[quote=Delta Wing;1802178][quote]
Would you say what you have been saying if it were your Nano that was burning? Families losing jobs, man, you make it sound so dramatic. But fat chance of that happening in this country where Warrren Anderson can get away with the worst ever industrial disaster at Bhopal. Why even bring a distant and sentimental issue like people losing their jobs when we are discussing preliminaries of the incident of a car on fire, as if livelihoods under threat were a valid excuse against retribution for possible manufacturing defects?

For the fact that nobody ever was hurt physically by a Nano I think you make it sound so dramatic! And things like complete towns losing heir jobs have happened and are still happening. No economy is safe. I can't undo what happened in Bhopal. All I can do is help preventig other incidents happening to prevent repeating such incidents.

What you fail to understand is that ranting is not getting anyone anywhere. How much ranting was done when the Union Carbide desaster happened? A hell of a lot. What was the result? Nothing.

Whatever you are coming up with you just prove my point, which you don't want to see.

Not a single person of over one billion people in India do know the exact cause of the fire. But everyone blames Tata from the word 'go'.

All the big ranters speak about Tata in an unacceptable manner, claiming that they wouldn't do anything, despite having no evidence. The investigation has sarted before some of the ranters even knew about the fire. Still they are running down Tata for doing nothing. Despite the fact that they are clearly wrong the would go on. Of course they would never apologise, but expect from everyone else to apologise.

Is this the way to deal with people? Not the way my parents brought me up.

That is wrong definitely but given the consumer protection in this country, a little pressure does not hurt. So long as Tata do the investigation and produce safety assurances to avoid more fires, it is fine.

What has consumer protection to do with Tata? Tata is not the government. If Tata has bodged your pressure leads to shooting yourself in the foot without consumer protection. Sort the consumer protection and any company bodging can be held at ransom.

Action is needed, not ranting.

While you are going against Tata, when it should be the authorities that you should sort, the people in the authorities laughing because they get away. But then you are the ones who have elected the government. So, you are the ones that can get them out of power if they aren't acting in the interest of the public.

That someone is me and I stick to my conviction because have seen my share of complicated accidents and the investigations with the results.

I have seen enough investigations that were wound up in the way you describe and later it turned out that the conclusions were wrong, which led to more people dying. If you are willing to take the risk - that is up to you. I personally would not risk it.

Utterance of technical words like 'chemical analysis' and 'other procedures' does not take them longer to complete.

It took 2 years to figure out why the Air France Concorde had its fatal take off. Experts came to many conclusions. They had video evidence, they had a flight recorder, they had maintainance records, the planes wer regularly inspected, they had all the experience with wear and tear and the flaws of the construction. In many other aircraft incidents it is the same story.

If it were all so easy and everything wound up in not time then the ever increasing list of re-calls wouldn't exist in the first place.

It is the corporate excuse to shove things out of public memory by delaying things.

Of course people will do it and have done since the dawn of civilisation.

People will jump up and down all they want at any time, who are you to tell people otherwise, considering your jumping rants against Toyota and Mercedes?

Again you are wrong. I am not telling people to not jump up and down. I am against false accusations! Jumping up and down on false accusations is wrong, immoral and self defeating.

Junp up and down when it is the right time. And then it should be done in an effective way. Or do you think that your jumping up and down is effective? You mentioned Bhopal and claim nothing has happened to the guilty ones. Why hasn't anythinjg changed since? Because your jumping up and down is predictable. Every authority and institution has got a plan 'in the drawer' to get out of this predictable situation.

It's fine in US where the govt has more stringent norms for carmakers but in India, unless people jump, many or most deviations would go unnoticed, let alone accounted.

Sort the government to sort the laws and regulations. Jumping at the Nano won't change the manufacturers ways if they need changing.

People will jump about the Nano, because it is hailed as the people's car whereas issues with a Merceds or a Honda might not cause so much of public outcry since half the Indian public wouldn't even know and care for these brands.

The Nano is quite an achievement. You claim to care, but at the same time run Tata down on things you don't even know exactly what they are doing. This sounds to me like a headless chicken. Where is the agenda? You are trying to fight a battle and don't even know were it is!

Declaring and making the world's cheapest car is a double edged sword with laurels for the effort and lashings for the smallest failures and like it or not, Tata will have to face it.

Ratan Tata can today close its factories and live very comfortable till th end of his life and never needs to bend a finger again for work and this would be the same several generations down. His future is a lot safer in this respect than any of ours. If you run down Tata you are bound to lose because it affects your economy. This is what we have to face.

So rather than bashing members of the forum just for the sake of putting them down for their rightful opinions, it would be appreciated if people could present more facts about this incident, if they know them.

I have no problem with opinions. I have a problem when people try to sell opinions as facts. And I have a big problem with false statement and wrong accusations. My parents have lived through the worst regime of all times, which was governed by wrong accusations leading to over 2,500 concentration camps murdering milions after millions of people!

Unfortunately the ranters did not present facts, which certainly does not aid the project Nano.

To repeat my first post, we need to chill and let some preliminary investigation be completed before taking sides. Before that, it is rather pointless to either defend/attack Tata or the Nano.

It shouldn't be a matter of attacking or defending the Nano. Either people are constructive or they should better be silent.

Concerns are constructive, ranting is not.

Ranting is something for people that do not act.

But people that are constructive do act.

The Nano is not perfect and never will be as no other product ever will be.

It certainly ha got flaws, but constructive arguments make it a better car.

The ranters don't give it a real chance. The ones proven wrong regarding Tata not doing anything have not even accepted that they are wrong.

Are they really helping a great (even if it is ambitious) project to succeed?

Sawyer · 25th March 2010, 15:24

Guys, watching this thread has gotten to be as interesting and entertaining as watching a Nano burn! And as far as I can see, no good enough reason I can see for either set of flames.

Ponmayilal · 25th March 2010, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponmayilal

......Is there not even a single authoritative agency to look into such serious incidents that affect the passenger safety? Did the Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), Pune send its team to the spot?....

I think amidst the towering nanoferno and the deluge that poured on it after, my above post was completely lost.

"It must also be probed how and why Tata and Concorde gave delivery of a defective car. I want the entire incident to be investigated and criminal action taken against officials of Tata Motors and Concorde" Sawant said.

In the light of what Mr.Sawant, the burnt-Nano owner has said, that post becomes relevant.

Then again whether there is an investigation by an authoritative agency or not, Mr. Sawant may do as well file a complaint before a competent consumer forum, seeking a hefty compensation from Tata Motors and Concorde for the inconvenience, trauma, and mental agony caused to him and his family, notwithstanding a monetary refund or material replacement. He has a right to and excercising it of course is his will.

CPH · 25th March 2010, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponmayilal

I think amidst the towering nanoferno and the deluge that poured on it after, my above post was completely lost.

"It must also be probed how and why Tata and Concorde gave delivery of a defective car. I want the entire incident to be investigated and criminal action taken against officials of Tata Motors and Concorde" Sawant said.

In the light of what Mr.Sawant, the burnt-Nano owner has said, that post becomes relevant.

Then again whether there is an investigation by an authoritative agency or not, Mr. Sawant may do as well file a complaint before a competent consumer forum, seeking a hefty compensation from Tata Motors and Concorde for the inconvenience, trauma, and mental agony caused to him and his family, notwithstanding a monetary refund or material replacement. He has a right to and excercising it of course is his will.

I begin to smell a rat. Something doesn't add up here (I am referring to the incident).

RajaTaurus · 25th March 2010, 16:18

Folks, Check out this news bit:
Tata's 'sorry' just won't do, says Nano owner

May be you can smell more rats there.

Quote from the news article:
"They were quick to tow away the charred car and take it into their custody"
"Tata Motors' official, Amit Joshi, told me that it was a pre-production car, which Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell to any customer,"
"According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008"

Daewood · 25th March 2010, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

"They were quick to tow away the charred car and take it into their custody"
"Tata Motors' official, Amit Joshi, told me that it was a pre-production car, which Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell to any customer,"
"According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008"

So now they are passing on the blame to Concorde.

Guys many of you would have read this.
For those who have missed it i'm pasting this link about Varun Roy's ordeal with Tata Motors
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...g-40-a-47.html

McLaren Rulez · 25th March 2010, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

Quote from the news article:
"They were quick to tow away the charred car and take it into their custody"
"Tata Motors' official, Amit Joshi, told me that it was a pre-production car, which Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell to any customer,"
"According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008"

Definitely some rats to smell here.

Since the car was a pre-production one, I hope whatever caused the fire has been sorted in the production Nanos.

tsk1979 · 25th March 2010, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPH

I begin to smell a rat. Something doesn't add up here (I am referring to the incident).

Since it was the dealership driver driving the car, I doubt a "rat".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daewood

So now they are passing on the blame to Concorde.

Guys many of you would have read this.
For those who have missed it i'm pasting this link about Varun Roy's ordeal with Tata Motors
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...g-40-a-47.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Definitely some rats to smell here.

Since the car was a pre-production one, I hope whatever caused the fire has been sorted in the production Nanos.

It may as well be a dealer issue, rather than tata motors issue. Dealers often pass old stock to customers, to move inventory. After all how many people check the date of manufacture!
Nevertheless, if it was indeed a pre production car, the crime is serious. The customer in such cases needs to get a hefty compensation, and the dealer needs to be pulled up by the manufacturer as well as by the courts.

amitoj · 25th March 2010, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

Quote from the news article:
"They were quick to tow away the charred car and take it into their custody"
"Tata Motors' official, Amit Joshi, told me that it was a pre-production car, which Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell to any customer,"
"According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008"

If the car was a pre production one, what was it doing in the hands of a dealer?

And if indeed it was a pre production one, Mr Sawant could have found that out by checking the VIN in "decoding VIN" thread on tbhp

CPH · 25th March 2010, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daewood

So now they are passing on the blame to Concorde.

Guys many of you would have read this.
For those who have missed it i'm pasting this link about Varun Roy's ordeal with Tata Motors
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...g-40-a-47.html

The VIN will prove date of manufacture. If Tata would give false information deliberatedly or not about the vehicle according to the VIN it would create serious problems in many countries and have fatal long term results.

If it is a 2008 model then Conlcorde should not have sold it as new.

I wonder whether Mr Sawant is telling the full truth?

CPH · 25th March 2010, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Since it was the dealership driver driving the car, I doubt a "rat".

I am not claiming that Mr. Sawant set the car a fire.

Gilead · 25th March 2010, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPH

If it is a 2008 model then Conlcorde should not have sold it as new.

If the car was indeed manufactured in 2008 and is a 'pre production' model as alleged, it should never have been shipped from the Tata plant to Concorde. I have never heard of any manufacturer delivering a not-so-fully tested pre production model to a dealership before. I hope Tata responds to this allegation at the earliest. They should know by now whether it was made in 2008 or not. If they sit mum, I am going to assume the worst.

RajaTaurus · 25th March 2010, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilead

.... I hope Tata responds to this allegation at the earliest. They should know by now whether it was made in 2008 or not. If they sit mum, I am going to assume the worst.

Dear friend, it is not an allegation by anybody else, it is explanation by Tata's own spokesman. How Tata could possibly respond is to 'sack' this spokesman, either way.

MCR · 25th March 2010, 17:01

Well. It can also be that Tata is trying to supress the fears of future buyers by saying that it was a "pre-production model". This statement is made by a Tata employee and not from the Customer. So this may be part of the strategy, blame the party who has minimal repercussion in case of a severe issue in a product.

25th March 2010, 13:39	#181
acidkill BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chennai Posts: 420 Thanked: 137 Times	Well, a product recall from TATA would be fairly ironic. But in any case i wish that TATA resolves the problem soon (both technically and from a PR perspective). The nano's aspirational value for lakhs of Indians who seek to buy their first car in the coming years deserves to live on
	() Thanks

25th March 2010, 15:02	#182
CPH BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: London Posts: 579 Thanked: 35 Times	[quote=Delta Wing;1802178][quote] Would you say what you have been saying if it were your Nano that was burning? Families losing jobs, man, you make it sound so dramatic. But fat chance of that happening in this country where Warrren Anderson can get away with the worst ever industrial disaster at Bhopal. Why even bring a distant and sentimental issue like people losing their jobs when we are discussing preliminaries of the incident of a car on fire, as if livelihoods under threat were a valid excuse against retribution for possible manufacturing defects? For the fact that nobody ever was hurt physically by a Nano I think you make it sound so dramatic! And things like complete towns losing heir jobs have happened and are still happening. No economy is safe. I can't undo what happened in Bhopal. All I can do is help preventig other incidents happening to prevent repeating such incidents. What you fail to understand is that ranting is not getting anyone anywhere. How much ranting was done when the Union Carbide desaster happened? A hell of a lot. What was the result? Nothing. Whatever you are coming up with you just prove my point, which you don't want to see. Not a single person of over one billion people in India do know the exact cause of the fire. But everyone blames Tata from the word 'go'. All the big ranters speak about Tata in an unacceptable manner, claiming that they wouldn't do anything, despite having no evidence. The investigation has sarted before some of the ranters even knew about the fire. Still they are running down Tata for doing nothing. Despite the fact that they are clearly wrong the would go on. Of course they would never apologise, but expect from everyone else to apologise. Is this the way to deal with people? Not the way my parents brought me up. That is wrong definitely but given the consumer protection in this country, a little pressure does not hurt. So long as Tata do the investigation and produce safety assurances to avoid more fires, it is fine. What has consumer protection to do with Tata? Tata is not the government. If Tata has bodged your pressure leads to shooting yourself in the foot without consumer protection. Sort the consumer protection and any company bodging can be held at ransom. Action is needed, not ranting. While you are going against Tata, when it should be the authorities that you should sort, the people in the authorities laughing because they get away. But then you are the ones who have elected the government. So, you are the ones that can get them out of power if they aren't acting in the interest of the public. That someone is me and I stick to my conviction because have seen my share of complicated accidents and the investigations with the results. I have seen enough investigations that were wound up in the way you describe and later it turned out that the conclusions were wrong, which led to more people dying. If you are willing to take the risk - that is up to you. I personally would not risk it. Utterance of technical words like 'chemical analysis' and 'other procedures' does not take them longer to complete. It took 2 years to figure out why the Air France Concorde had its fatal take off. Experts came to many conclusions. They had video evidence, they had a flight recorder, they had maintainance records, the planes wer regularly inspected, they had all the experience with wear and tear and the flaws of the construction. In many other aircraft incidents it is the same story. If it were all so easy and everything wound up in not time then the ever increasing list of re-calls wouldn't exist in the first place. It is the corporate excuse to shove things out of public memory by delaying things. Of course people will do it and have done since the dawn of civilisation. People will jump up and down all they want at any time, who are you to tell people otherwise, considering your jumping rants against Toyota and Mercedes? Again you are wrong. I am not telling people to not jump up and down. I am against false accusations! Jumping up and down on false accusations is wrong, immoral and self defeating. Junp up and down when it is the right time. And then it should be done in an effective way. Or do you think that your jumping up and down is effective? You mentioned Bhopal and claim nothing has happened to the guilty ones. Why hasn't anythinjg changed since? Because your jumping up and down is predictable. Every authority and institution has got a plan 'in the drawer' to get out of this predictable situation. It's fine in US where the govt has more stringent norms for carmakers but in India, unless people jump, many or most deviations would go unnoticed, let alone accounted. Sort the government to sort the laws and regulations. Jumping at the Nano won't change the manufacturers ways if they need changing. People will jump about the Nano, because it is hailed as the people's car whereas issues with a Merceds or a Honda might not cause so much of public outcry since half the Indian public wouldn't even know and care for these brands. The Nano is quite an achievement. You claim to care, but at the same time run Tata down on things you don't even know exactly what they are doing. This sounds to me like a headless chicken. Where is the agenda? You are trying to fight a battle and don't even know were it is! Declaring and making the world's cheapest car is a double edged sword with laurels for the effort and lashings for the smallest failures and like it or not, Tata will have to face it. Ratan Tata can today close its factories and live very comfortable till th end of his life and never needs to bend a finger again for work and this would be the same several generations down. His future is a lot safer in this respect than any of ours. If you run down Tata you are bound to lose because it affects your economy. This is what we have to face. So rather than bashing members of the forum just for the sake of putting them down for their rightful opinions, it would be appreciated if people could present more facts about this incident, if they know them. I have no problem with opinions. I have a problem when people try to sell opinions as facts. And I have a big problem with false statement and wrong accusations. My parents have lived through the worst regime of all times, which was governed by wrong accusations leading to over 2,500 concentration camps murdering milions after millions of people! Unfortunately the ranters did not present facts, which certainly does not aid the project Nano. To repeat my first post, we need to chill and let some preliminary investigation be completed before taking sides. Before that, it is rather pointless to either defend/attack Tata or the Nano. It shouldn't be a matter of attacking or defending the Nano. Either people are constructive or they should better be silent. Concerns are constructive, ranting is not. Ranting is something for people that do not act. But people that are constructive do act. The Nano is not perfect and never will be as no other product ever will be. It certainly ha got flaws, but constructive arguments make it a better car. The ranters don't give it a real chance. The ones proven wrong regarding Tata not doing anything have not even accepted that they are wrong. Are they really helping a great (even if it is ambitious) project to succeed?
	() Thanks

25th March 2010, 15:24	#183
Sawyer Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 2,677 Thanked: 1,786 Times	Guys, watching this thread has gotten to be as interesting and entertaining as watching a Nano burn! And as far as I can see, no good enough reason I can see for either set of flames.
	() Thanks

25th March 2010, 16:18	#186
RajaTaurus Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tenkasi, TN Posts: 1,119 Thanked: 473 Times View My Garage	Folks, Check out this news bit: Tata's 'sorry' just won't do, says Nano owner May be you can smell more rats there. Quote from the news article: "They were quick to tow away the charred car and take it into their custody" "Tata Motors' official, Amit Joshi, told me that it was a pre-production car, which Concorde Motors was not supposed to sell to any customer," "According to the vehicle's Acknowledgement Delivery Note, the year of manufacture has been shown as 2009, but Tata's spokesperson, Deba-shish Ray, had said that the car was actually manufactured in 2008"
	() Thanks

25th March 2010, 17:01	#195
MCR BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: BLR/MYS Posts: 882 Thanked: 637 Times View My Garage	Well. It can also be that Tata is trying to supress the fears of future buyers by saying that it was a "pre-production model". This statement is made by a Tata employee and not from the Customer. So this may be part of the strategy, blame the party who has minimal repercussion in case of a severe issue in a product.
	() Thanks