[airbender]

Originally Posted by wildon

^^ Thats a welcome step, Looking forward to it.

Irrelevant of who is the manufacturer the End user must be protected by law. A group like this can make a difference , by signing a mass petition and submit to the respective Govt.agency to implement the Anti Lemon Law /Quality monitoring law.

A national drive to complete the signing of mass petition will get attention, T-Bhp members from each state/district can co-ordinate to complete the signing of mass petition, from there on the media will take care.

Its better to act now.

Can some body who has knowledge of drafting a Mass petition regarding the subject come forward please.

Please count me in for the mass petition.


By CPH:

I was thinking of raising the subject to force a law being set up. But then I was thinking that I am not even a citizen of your country and have no right to force a law that doesn't affect me.

Thanks a lot for your responce and initiate. I read all your posts and also posted a couple of times how your words were manipulated.

By Gilead: Did anyone catch the Tata's spokesman's comments published in the TOI today?

He first denies any connection between this fire and the earlier fires. In the next sentence he says they have no idea what caused this fire and that they are still investigating. Then how can they rule out any sort of connection?

For the first three nano's black smoke(not fire) started near the steering wheel but in this case it started in back.

[Gansan]

@Ponmayilal
The Cielos (at least 4 that I read about) combusted spontaneously while being driven. The cause was established as a faulty electrical harness.

@Sanjayc
In nine out of ten cases, the occupants will be able to walk out. God forbid if the remote/automatic locks act up and can't be opened in time. I remember a friend's Tata Sierra that stopped suddenly because some belt in the engine bay got cut. Horror of horrors, none of the doors could be opened-the remote locking did not disengage. They had to break the glass and get out, fortunately there was no fire though. I remember the failure of the locks too was attributed to this stupid belt.

[airbender]

I was watching a indian movie today, this is part of the story.

A goon in a small town rapes a teen girl. Whole town watches in silence. A day later a hungry kid tries to steal a samosa, the whole town unites to beat him down to death. Sounds familiar anyone.

If I stop this post here, someone with free internet connection at work will say,
Now you sound exacly like an politician. The towns people are blamed for punishing a thief.

Just for his sake, don't punish one, punish both. Infact punishing him on his first mistake will make him not do the second.


The way we indians think is strange indeed. I sometimes feel like creating a thread to discuss this but t-bhp being a auto related blog stops me from doing it.


BTW posts by greatmana2000 are plain irresposible. I donot see any merit responding to him/her.

I have asked a lot of questions, almost all of them are waiting for answers. Specially the one with recalls.

[Cyrus43]

Here is a blog from Mr. Nitin Seth (Head Car Product Group) Tata Motors on the Nano website. It is worth a read.

Dear Nano Fans,

It gives me great pleasure to write to you. Thank you for your overwhelming support to Tata Motors. It has been a year since we launched the Nano and the car has already made its place into history books alongside other legendary automobiles like the VW Beetle and Ford Model T.....

This is the link to the Blog. Tata 'NANO' - The People's Car from Tata Motors

[RajaTaurus]

^^ Of course, we have not forgotten our own fellow bhpians took a Mumbai-to-Delhi road trip in a Nano successfully. We don't doubt the wonder car's capabilities. Its only the about its safety given the current situation.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Ya I saw it is same car and same story but why after so many days and how come Satish Sawant became software engineer from an Insurence agent in matter or days ? this time around AC and PS details are omitted

Just what I thought. And this is not the only inconsistancy.

One other thing that discredits the sources is the otherv three incidents that they try to tie in with the recent fire, which are totally unrelated to this fire and the claim that the other three cars burst into flames when they are not. Once a car burst into flames there won't be too much left of anything combustable.

To answer someones question whether cars explode hollywood style. Unless the fire starts from the tank itself or has progressed to the tank it is unlikely. Tanks are designed to have a minimum risk of catching fire and it taes quite a while. If seen a number of cars burning for quite a few minutes, but never have seen one exploding in a fire.

Also evey car has to be fitted with an impact switch (in principle a little meatal ball in a springloaded mechanism that is thrown out of the mechanism at impact to cut the electricity, which also cuts ignition) to make sure that an overturned car can not be ignited on escapingliquids etc.

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

Its only the about its safety given the current situation.

The cause of the fire is up to this moment not established.

The figures supplied on this forum is that 25,000 are on the road.

No casualties and no fatalities. Fust four cars of whom one burst into flames thhe other three caught some fire that was extinguished.

4 out of 25000 cars or 1 every 6250.

Have you ever thought about tat the 8,500,000 Toyotas are cars that were daily on the road could have been for you a deadly risk? At how many occasions could things have gone wrong? It wouldn't matter whether you own a Toyota or not. If you are in its way when it is out of control you are being hit.

Which one have you got to worry more about?

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by CPH

The cause of the fire is up to this moment not established.

The figures supplied on this forum is that 25,000 are on the road.

No casualties and no fatalities. Fust four cars of whom one burst into flames thhe other three caught some fire that was extinguished.

4 out of 25000 cars or 1 every 6250.

Have you ever thought about tat the 8,500,000 Toyotas are cars that were daily on the road could have been for you a deadly risk? At how many occasions could things have gone wrong? It wouldn't matter whether you own a Toyota or not. If you are in its way when it is out of control you are being hit.

Which one have you got to worry more about?

Got to point out here, that all the 8.5 million would not have gone out of control? Surely there must be a similar failure rate, though I have no clue what that is.
PS: I am by now totally confused about the stand in short that CPH is taking v the ones lined up against him. What is the argument about again? In one sentence, if possible?!

[Delta Wing]

Originally Posted by wildon

Is it because of Nano, this thread is so active !!!

The below thread needs some attention guys....

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tration-2.html

+1 for the other thread. Would it be possible to merge these two threads, moderators, with a title say, 'Nano catches Fire-Do We Need Vehicle Safety Regulations in India'?

Originally Posted by Sawyer

What is the argument about again? In one sentence, if possible?!

In one sentence, would you bash Tata for the fire, or defend them, or wait till the Nano fire is investigated before taking sides? I'm in the third camp to wait for reports.

Safety regulations are a must. If there were no FDA in the essential commodities side, traders would sell you defective foodgrains etc. It's a different matter that corruption is rampant but the fear of the standards guy exists. Similarly, motor vehicles must have regulations for consumer protection. Those who see no need for such regulations, would you like to fly with an airlines in an aircraft that hasn't got its airworthiness certificate from DGCA? Vehicles are a serious business and dangerous when they malfunction. Wouldn't we like to be assured of the safety of the product we buy?

This is worth a look:
http://cai-india.org/index.php?optio...wnload&gid=282
And this (same as above link mostly):
The Hindu Business Line : How safe are Indian automobiles?

A draft for the safety norms is readily available here for suitable modifications to suit India:

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations
Another:
Title 49, United States Code Chapter 301 Motor Vehicle Safety

Cars are still beyond the common man in India unlike the USA hence there probably has been no concern over this issue so far. There also exists the manufacturers' lobby. That does not mean that the situation should remain the same forever. With the Nano, the car becomes reachable for more people.
Tatas have been pioneering in many ways in this country (e.g. first to start employees provident fund in India which made the govt follow suit), they made the Indica and now the Nano. This little car needs its chances and for that too, we need safety norms in place. Why, apart from being the cheapest car in the world, the Nano may just cause us to enact safety norms through this incident and thus benefiting all car users alike. Should I say that this little car needed to burn at the stakes to wake us up?

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

In one sentence, would you bash Tata for the fire prematurely, or defend them, or wait till the Nano fire is investigated before taking sides? I'm in the last camp.

Why would anyone be in any other camp? I don't see that in any post either? Or
If anyone is saying different, my sense is that they are saying that the investigation should be done quickly, and its results published.
Or am I still missing something?

[kreddy]

Tatas seem to be facing lot of problems in getting this baby grow up.

First all the troubles in Singur, then all this excessive negative publicity.

[shankar.balan]

I think it is better to wait for the investigation reports before making judgements.
Yes the car is engineered to a price and indeed that is a great achievement, considering that some motorbikes actually cost more.
It could be that the new owners added some electrical part to the new Nano's without proper care or something of the sort, because it is highly unlikely that the cars could have been subject to spontaneous combustion!
Having said all this, with the current temperatures we are experiencing in terms of climate, it just could be possible on excessively hot days, for something like this to happen.
But there must be a solid reason and I am keen to hear more about it once they've investigated the scene.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

PS: I am by now totally confused about the stand in short that CPH is taking v the ones lined up against him.

I think the only one who can answer the stand of CPH is CPH himself, but CPH can't answer for the other side, which only they themselves can do.

My stand is a neutral one even if people try to tell me I am not ans some claiming I have got no clue about what I am talking.

I have access to a lot of data and means to acquire sensitive data in the field as I am working in the field for over three decades on different levels.

Part of my work is investigation and I am trained in interogation techniques.

From all the information coming in, which some seems to be insignificant to many I start assessing.

My objective is to find the truth and not to take sides.

The conclusions I came to is that the Nano is a great achievement and I don't care whether it is Indian or not. I am neither a racist or nationalist.

Ratan Tata has achieved great things. So has a man who my grandfather grew up with known by the name of Albert Einstein. Who of the 2 was better? Everyone who wants to answer this question misses the most important things in life.

I have no connection to Tata, but like the concept of the Tata. I discussed some things about the Nano last night with my ex business partner whom I do performance projects and race projects with till date. We are working on a high performance engine development project that is much more power fuls than a few Nanos together.

Still we both recognise the technical achievement of Tata.

A few things don't add up. Mr Sawant made some comments according to the papers that raise concern. I am not going to support such.

That someone at Concorde has sold a car that shouldn't be sold is a claim that hasn't been veryfied. If it is coming true then the responsible person needs to be held responsible to whatever is just.

Whether this not to be sold had an impact on the resulting fire is not clear at this moment in time.

Claiming that Tata is responsible for Concorde is as much true as it isn't. You can't hold an entire organisation responsible for the action of one or a few stepping out of line unless it is happening more than once.

Fact is that Tata looked into all 4 cases of fire, where 3 have been resolved the 4th is pending.

Tata is not perfect. I would not give them that. Of course they could do better. But then, couldn't we all do better?

I do not grant any earthly thing holiness! This includes Tata.

I do neither take the side of the man in the street when he is wrong.

The evidence presented in case of the Nano does not warrant the reaction.

Whatever Tata has not done in other cases is a different matter and has to be looked at seperatedly.

That India hasn't got a governing body as it is claimed here again is a totally different matter. This can't be held against Tata. That Tata might use the legal situation as an advantage is something they can do. But doesn't anyone else do this too?

Quite a few politicians in England have made unlawful tax deductions, but expect the public not to and made laws to fine them. This is wrong and action needs to be taken, but when no law then no action can be taken.

I am for justice and I am for justice for every car owner. By pointing to Tata being the root of all evil nobody will solve anything nor will justice be done.

At this moment in time Tata is blamed by many people for things that are really need to be looked at in different places.

My position is to defend Tata where they are right and I will defend people that are harmed. And if Tata is the culprit I will not hold back to say so.

As I believe in justice (not in making silly laws that are being brought in connection with justice) I am willing to help shape demands for laws protecting consumer interests. And this is why I offered it.

[Sawyer]

As far as laws in India are concerned, in general, we have enough, maybe too many of them. Our problem is enforcement. And a lack of civic sense, starting with a total lack of interest of the more educated and urban folk in taking part in the political process. Unless that changes, we will have to live with what is given to us. More laws aint the answer.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

As far as laws in India are concerned, in general, we have enough, maybe too many of them. Our problem is enforcement. And a lack of civic sense, starting with a total lack of interest of the more educated and urban folk in taking part in the political process. Unless that changes, we will have to live with what is given to us. More laws aint the answer.

You know more abouit the legal situation in India then me.

If this is the case then it proves even more that ranting is not the way forward. Then you can solve such things only by action.

The English don't like the French very much (don't know why). But even the English praise the French for their actions.

I have seen the French stopping the government, when farmers and truck drivers brought the entire traffic on all main roads in the country to standstill by just blocking everything with their tractors and trailers as wheel as the trucks. No country can take this for weeks. And it is not even a lot of action.

The only severe action ever happening was the English fuel blockade to lower the fuel prices. This nearly collapsed because most of the people were ranting but were doing nothing to support it.

In clear terms this means if you have on the forum x amount of members (resident in India) that are wanting something changed then x amount has to sign the petition. It can't even be x amount minus one person.

Everyone who doesn't show you the colour of money when setting up a petition automatically revokes its right to even rant.

Draw up a petition if you want to do this and I help to get it sorted and I will lend a hand to make it public.

We cas't do better than this, but we can do much worse than this.

[rjalihal]

Well it is the world's cheapest car. Such issues are bound to occur. i am not surprised if a few more go up in flames sometime soon. Its about time these cars came with Fire Extinguishers as part of the standard safety features