[cediafan]

If Merlin is delayed, then it is indeed bad news. Tata might lose ground to M&M (esp Korando) if they go ahead with their launches this year. I hope they release a niggle free Merlin whenever they launch it.

[suman]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Oh Dear! I just came to know that the Merlin launch may be posponed to auto Expo.....am trying to get confirmation on this from my sources in TML. If anyone can tap their sources, it will be appreciated!!

If this is the case, goodbye Safari/Merlin for me....... Damn!!!!

And that's one of the reasons why I said bye-bye a couple of months ago. You'd think they're trying to launch another Range Rover or something. I mean WTH?? At the end of all this, will we really get a top-notch, niggle free Safari? Seriously?

[cediafan]

Suman,

To be fair to Tata, they never announced a launch date. All of us assumed a pre Diwali launch based on some insider news.

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by suman

And that's one of the reasons why I said bye-bye a couple of months ago. You'd think they're trying to launch another Range Rover or something. I mean WTH?? At the end of all this, will we really get a top-notch, niggle free Safari? Seriously?

suman Da, I agree...... I am really getting exasperated by TML now. given that I am moving to Gurgaon and will be travelling to Delhi evreyday, the Merlin would have been the ideal vehicle for me, but I dunno what TML is smoking if the launch date is Auto Expo.

Incidentally, i got this info from someone who is closely associated with the execution of Auto Expo- the guy knows his cars pretty well, hence i considered it appropriate to post this on the forum as this news may have some credibility.

Queries to my sources in TML have not resulted in any confirmation so far, but I am hoping against hope that the Merlin is launched by 30th Sept!

[julupani]

Originally Posted by suman

And that's one of the reasons why I said bye-bye a couple of months ago. You'd think they're trying to launch another Range Rover or something. I mean WTH?? At the end of all this, will we really get a top-notch, niggle free Safari? Seriously?

I really dont understand it. At least let them take some time to try their best at coming up with something good. The way you put it, it seems even if they take 10 years and come up with a 20lakh rupee Safari, it will still fall apart in half an hour.

Have Tata not improved at all in the past decade of car making?? Is the Aria as bad as the 1st gen Indica???

Or should they just not try at all at improving their products and instead churn out new products in a couple of months. WTH, its going to be crap anyways, so why bother with all the testing.

[himanshugoswami]

@Julupani, its not as simple as that my friend.

the same hopes were expressed when TML launched the 2.2.....all of us who owned the 3.0 expected a niggle free product from day 1- sadly that was not to be.

Despite that some of us are willing to give TML another chance, but when a mere upgrade needs over 3 years in testing and with no certainty over the launch date, makes you wonder.....

just think about this- Mahindra's W201 and the Merlin appeared in spy shots around roughly the same time (give or take a couple of months) - one is a grounds up new design and the other is an upgrade to an existing 15 yr old design- and the former has a confirmed launch date of 26th Sept....go figure!

[harimakesh]

Tata OR Mahindra both in comparison with any globally respectable quality in fit and finish have not acquired adequacy yet.

Both Tata and Mahidra deliver us Indians with their half baked products as their general standard.

The difference among them is Tata has sarkari laid back attitde to go slow on anything, on the other hand Mahindra relatively quick/ punctual.

[directinjection]

A decade ago, Tata launched the Indica prematurely, without adequately testing the product or the manufacturing processes and much against the advice of their own production deptt. In the process, they burned their hands and were forced to launch the improved V2 later. It seems after that bitter experience, the management decided to adopt the policy of always erring on the side of caution, resulting in delayed launches. This is good as well as bad. The customer gets a better product (compared to earlier Tata products) but sometimes, as in the case of Vista which was designed in 2004, the product is obsolete at launch itself.

They should explore the possibility of producing a lot more prototypes so that testing can be done in shorter duration.

[suman]

Originally Posted by cediafan

Suman,

To be fair to Tata, they never announced a launch date. All of us assumed a pre Diwali launch based on some insider news.

The vehicle has been around for ages now & there have been at least three insider dates so far - April, August & Diwali. And I'm not basing this only on forum news.

Originally Posted by julupani

Or should they just not try at all at improving their products and instead churn out new products in a couple of months. WTH, its going to be crap anyways, so why bother with all the testing.

Julupani, lets revisit this six months after the launch, its too premature to discuss now

Also, as I mentioned, the finished product has been out there for ages - I cannot figure what additional improvements could possibly take so long to implement. They should have seized the opportunity of launching before the W201, now they've botched up that bit as well.

[alabjarus]

Originally Posted by Irish

Tata Merlin spotted at a delaership

Attachment 579410

EDIT: Already posted and discussed.


Cheers!
Irish

Looks fairly unimpressive, something like the offspring for a Safari & Xylo...!

[julupani]

The Merlin, I think is based on the Aria platform and not the old Safari platform. Thus, though it may look a lot like the old Safari, but its more of a ground up design than you think.

At the end of the day, my point is, if Tata think they want to test their product a bit more,why are we complaining. Let us give them the chance to try their best.

Why are we assuming the the Merlin will be crap, so they might as well be done with the testing. Let Tata do the best they can, and then we decide if its any good. And then if we actually think its crap, then we can criticise the fact that all the testing is pointless.

My objection is to the attitude that Tata can never ever make a good car, so they should not bother with testing at all.

[suman]

Originally Posted by julupani

The Merlin, I think is based on the Aria platform and not the old Safari platform. Thus, though it may look a lot like the old Safari, but its more of a ground up design than you think.

The key word in your statement is highlighted in bold & italics - do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming?

Originally Posted by julupani

Why are we assuming the the Merlin will be crap, so they might as well be done with the testing. Let Tata do the best they can, and then we decide if its any good. And then if we actually think its crap, then we can criticise the fact that all the testing is pointless.

Where do you see the assumption that the Merlin is crap? Can you point this out? What we (at least I & probably Himanshu as well) are cribbing about is the fact that they are D-R-A-G-G-I-N-G the launch out unnecessarily. You didn't answer my question - what more could they be developing or testing that they haven't already done in the past couple of years?

Originally Posted by julupani

My objection is to the attitude that Tata can never ever make a good car, so they should not bother with testing at all.

So what is a decent testing period for you? 6 months, 3 years, 10 years? How long has the Merlin been in "test" mode ? The last few spottings have been around dealerships - what further testing could remain? And, most importantly - where is it being said that they can never make a good car? Its their QC that is suspect - until proven otherwise.

[julupani]

Well, you are making assumptions, so I think I have my right to make them as well.

As for the Aria platform, I believe Tata had annouced that they will be using their X2 platform for the new Safari as well. Thus I am saying its more of a ground up design than you think. Do you have any proof to counter that??

Also, you have assumed the launch delay to further testing. Who said anything about that?? There isnt a remotely confirmable launch date.

But your attitude, as of most other people, as can be seen in the way your posts are phrased, seem to suggest what I have already mentioned. Ruing the delay of an awaited launch is one thing, but your post suggest something different.

Like I said earlier, the phrasing of your post seemed to suggest that you were pretty much sure that the testing could achieve nothing and they should just launch the vehicle.

If my inference is incorrect, then I apologise.

Overall, my point is I am not going to make judgment on any delay, or anything at all about the Merlin based on facts that I have. If you have any, please do share.

Until then, let Tata do their job, as best they can.

[suman]

Julupani, I could be wrong but I think your bias is showing.

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, you are making assumptions, so I think I have my right to make them as well.

Well, I have an in-depth, first hand experience of a Safari, having lived with a 3.0 liter Dicor for almost 5 years. Mind you, I've loved the vehicle (my ownership thread is testimony to that) & my overall experience has been a lot better than some 2.2 litre owners as far as fit, finish & niggles is concerned. However, to say that all TATA QC issues will be done & dusted with the Merlin is like a pipe dream - and, of course, there is no law against dreaming

As I've mentioned below, why don't you & I re-visit this conversation six months after the Merlin launch to see what has transpired as far as fit & finish are concerned. I, for one, will be happy if they launch a vehicle which has zero niggles & no Gremlins. Till then, its your assumption versus mine - and TEHO

Oh & BTW - about the platform, this is not the NEW Safari, that is still a couple of years away. Hence, the X2 platform thingy may not be applicable.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, you are making assumptions, so I think I have my right to make them as well.

As for the Aria platform, I believe Tata had annouced that they will be using their X2 platform for the new Safari as well. Thus I am saying its more of a ground up design than you think. Do you have any proof to counter that??


Until then, let Tata do their job, as best they can.

you are right and then wrong.

Aria's platform would be used for the NEW SAFARI.

Merlin is not the NEW SAFARI, its just a face-lift and cosmetic change.

NEW SAFARI is good 3-5 years away, Merlin is a stop gap filler, till the NEW SAFARI is unveiled!

please read each and every post, go through the whole thread before commenting and replying.

have a nice day and drive safe, oh yes....please wear the seat belt too!