[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Another one of those that gets argued both ways depending on who's looking at it.

You'd find plenty of fans (and teams/drivers themselves) argue 'alongside' is good enough for racing line if they support the attacking driver, then turn around and argue 'but he was never clearly ahead, should've backed off' if their guy is the one doing the defending.

Football team fans are the same. Opponent caught diving is a 'cheat', their guy doing it is 'being clever and buying a foul'.

All these incidents have been racing incidents, with the blame predominantly on Lewis in the Silverstone incident and the blame predominantly on Max for the Monza incident (my earlier comment on this incident was merely a quip).

The difference here is I am calling it a racing incident, which it clearly was, whereas Lewis fanboys call it Verstappen's fault. Verstappen is not the cleanest driver, I admit. Neither was MSC. Even Senna famously exclaimed that "if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." Prost and Senna would routinely run each other off and even punt each other out of the race!

But Lewis fans see all these incidents as Max's fault solely. I'm sure they are blaming Max for Lewis' magic button fiasco at Baku also.

What these people need to understand is this is F1. You are going to have these incidents. It's not some merry-go-round or some fun family karting weekend. Drivers are going to race each other hard. Lewis has also raced his team mates hard and has been questionable in his moves on several occasions. Nobody is here for consolation prizes. Lewis fanboys need to understand this.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

...my earlier comment on this incident was merely a quip...

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you (if it appeared that way), merely making a general observation that objectivity usually isn't a sportsperson/team fan's strong suit

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Oh, you mean like when Lewis ran Verstappen wide and over the sausage kerbs in Monza? Remember Verstappen was on the outside and Lewis shut the door on him a little too late, much like Lewis' move on Verstappen yesterday.

When everyone else thinks otherwise. Max had the space to run off or abort. Instead he dived bombed Lewis. All the top drivers called Max dangerous.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

That was Verstappen's corner, everyone and his dog knows this. And Lewis tried something cute on the inside, clearly nowhere close to the apex. I want to say it was intentional but I won't, because I honestly do not think Lewis is that dirty a driver. But to say that Verstappen is to be fully blamed for that incident is quite shocking and makes me wonder if you even watched the race! Anyway, you seem to be a Lewis fan going by your strong bias, and Lewis fans will never accept that he can make mistakes and will always find a way to blame everything else around him if things don't work out.

Max conveniently decided to turn into Lewis, his steering was turning to the right a second time and Lewis always gives Max or any driver space.
You seem to be a fan of Max, nothing wrong with the Bias..

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Max got the black-and-white flag for weaving, as has Hamilton on every instance that I have seen.

The difference is Max weaves more then once, this is not the first time he has done it this year.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

This is an extremely unfair statement to make. Max was all over the place in his earlier seasons with RB, admittedly. But he has been extremely clean this year. To say that he is to be "reigned in" is just shocking.

He is clean as long as he is in the front but when he is challenged by his championship rival, its his way or the grass.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Throughout the Turbo-Hybrid era, Lewis has gone unchallenged. When the challenge finally presents itself, we hear his fans saying "he is to be reigned in", jeez. Is this racing or some soap opera? Or is it DTS that has caused this unbelievable bias to creep in?


Yes, Max lacks the racecraft that Lewis has in dollops. Max has a long way to go and does not know when to back down. He is aggressive and has given no quarter this year. But to say that Max was "fully to blame" for that racing incident, especially when it is clear-as-day as to what happened, is sheer ignorance and abject bias towards one driver, and I cannot stand that.

Vettel, Lewis, Leclerc, Rosberg, Bottas, Ocon disagree.
All people wanted was a investigation into the Turn. When they say no investigation is necessary even without looking at Max camera feed is double standards.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by DIY410

When everyone else thinks otherwise. Max had the space to run off or abort. Instead he dived bombed Lewis. All the top drivers called Max dangerous.

EDIT: Please read all my posts. It was a quip as mentioned in Post #61 on this thread. *shakes head*

Originally Posted by DIY410

Max conveniently decided to turn into Lewis, his steering was turning to the right a second time and Lewis always gives Max or any driver space.
You seem to be a fan of Max, nothing wrong with the Bias..

Yes, he was closing the door on Lewis, to which Lewis did not yield as he should have. I guess it was a reaction to the Sprint race that Lewis lost out, and he probably decided enough is enough he is going to punt him out even if it costs him a meagre penalty.

Also, I urge you to carefully read all my posts on this thread. Firstly, I have made my stance clear, I am no Max fan. I am a Danny Ric fan, always have been always will be. Between Max and Lewis I am purely neutral. It is the Lewis fanboys who can't see the logic even though it is clear as day. Perhaps you should read my posts before making assumptions, as I have clearly mentioned that Max is an aggressive driver, maybe a touch too aggressive at times.

Originally Posted by DIY410

The difference is Max weaves more then once, this is not the first time he has done it this year.

Well, he was flagged for it. And he didn't attempt to weave after that or he would have been penalized and rightfully so.

Originally Posted by DIY410

He is clean as long as he is in the front but when he is challenged by his championship rival, its his way or the grass.

By this warped logic, Lewis should have been in the grass yesterday. But was he? He got ahead of him, didn't he? funny thing is it was Max on the grass when Lewis didn't get his way in Silverstone. What next, are you going to blame Max for Lewis hitting the magic button in Baku? I wouldn't put it past the Lewis fanboys.

Originally Posted by DIY410

Vettel, Lewis, Leclerc, Rosberg, Bottas, Ocon disagree.
All people wanted was a investigation into the Turn. When they say no investigation is necessary even without looking at Max camera feed is double standards.

Why should there be an investigation, pray tell? Because he ran him wide? Was he supposed to just open the door and allow him to pass him?

These guys are fighting for the the coveted driver's title. Not gold stars for doing their homework. Jeez.

Investigation is usually called for when there is contact and punting, intentional or otherwise. There was none of that. Please try and understand how it works and don't be blinded by bias.

[DIY410]

Michael Massi the race director says the smoking gun could be in the Max onboard front camera footage. Massi didn't even ask the stewards to open a investigation. Without him the stewards can't do a probono. They agreed that they took the call not to investigate without looking at Max onboard footage.

If he is investigated now, he may well get a 5 second penalty or he would have got a another black and white flag type during the race and he would have a total of 2 black and white flags that would disqualify max . But nothing to see here folks, the carpet is big enough to handle all the Max dirt till Abu dhabi.

[BlueFreedom]

Originally Posted by DIY410

Michael Massi the race director says the smoking gun could be in the Max onboard front camera footage. Massi didn't even ask the stewards to open a investigation. Without him the stewards can't do a probono. They agreed that they took the call not to investigate without looking at Max onboard footage.

If he is investigated now, he may well get a 5 second penalty or he would have got a another black and white flag type during the race and he would have a total of 2 black and white flags that would disqualify max . But nothing to see here folks, the carpet is big enough to handle all the Max dirt till Abu dhabi.

+ 1 This
Max took that corner 71 times and oddly only once did he make no attempt to actually turn into it and instead choose to run wide. By an amazing coincidence, it happened to be the time he was about to be overtaken, and they only didn’t crash because Hamilton ran wider. It’s so blatant I think you have to call the integrity of the stewards into question. And before anyone says it made no difference in the end, a 5 second penalty puts Bottas in 2nd. Just a disgrace, plain and simple

[Ashishkel]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Why should there be an investigation, pray tell? Because he ran him wide? Was he supposed to just open the door and allow him to pass him?

These guys are fighting for the the coveted driver's title. Not gold stars for doing their homework. Jeez.

Investigation is usually called for when there is contact and punting, intentional or otherwise. There was none of that. Please try and understand how it works and don't be blinded by bias.

Investigation is needed, or the opinion of needing an investigation came up because, Max had the gap to turn into the tarmac,.but he intentionally ran wide. So all of them are waiting for cockpit footage to see how his steering wheel is tilted.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Hamilton has broken Max’s sprit today, I feel this is the turn around and Mercedes/Hamilton are going to win both championships.

I don’t even remember when the black and white flag was last waved at anybody in Formula 1. Max cracked wide open under pressure, that was the craziest and most lousy thing to do on the straight. Max weaved two to three times across the track, dangerous driving and the signs of a loser.

Earlier I said let the better man win, but with this type of behaviour I hope Hamilton and Mercedes sweep both titles.

Magnificent display of will and skill from Hamilton

Cheers

Max looked lost after that overtaking. Don't know whether he wanted to derisk his 2nd place with Valttery some 10s down.
But I expected more fight from him. Usually he comes back strongly. Yesterday he didn't.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

All these incidents have been racing incidents, with the blame predominantly on Lewis in the Silverstone incident and the blame predominantly on Max for the Monza incident (my earlier comment on this incident was merely a quip).

The difference here is I am calling it a racing incident, which it clearly was, whereas Lewis fanboys call it Verstappen's fault. Verstappen is not the cleanest driver, I admit. Neither was MSC. Even Senna famously exclaimed that "if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." Prost and Senna would routinely run each other off and even punt each other out of the race!

But Lewis fans see all these incidents as Max's fault solely. I'm sure they are blaming Max for Lewis' magic button fiasco at Baku also.

What these people need to understand is this is F1. You are going to have these incidents. It's not some merry-go-round or some fun family karting weekend. Drivers are going to race each other hard. Lewis has also raced his team mates hard and has been questionable in his moves on several occasions. Nobody is here for consolation prizes. Lewis fanboys need to understand this.

No one is calling Baku as Max's fault. Lewis just lost his nerve .


It is a racing incident, mostly. But it has to be ensured too. Let the cockpit footage come out. Then we will know if it was intentional. Even if it's intentional, it might not be illegal. But it shows another face of Max - one that does not care about fellow drivers.

But just because MSC was like this, Max doesn't have to be like MSC.Michael was ruthless. It was a different era too.

If Max wants to follow MSC footsteps, then he should stop crying. And Horner also should stop crying. Cos driving dangerously without any regards for ethics and safety is not good endorsement for this sport. What if someone actually gets hurt? This is what Max fan boys should understand too.

Only Lewis fans are complaining, why? Cos this year, there is just one car which can remotely match RBs pace. That's Merc.

Actually I remember hearing Checo asking RB for slip steam from Max. It was the joke of the day. What was he thinking. It is a one way traffic. He has to help max. Max is not gonna help him back

[Vid6639]

Oooo this is steamy.

In the end both drivers aren't exactly saints and neither will want to lose a championship.

The incident is pure and simple hard racing beyond the limit. We have seen Senna do it, Schumacher do it and others as well. The stewards also agreed that as long as there is no contact, there is no need to penalize or investigate.

We don't just need to look at steering angles, we also need to see if both overshot the braking point. Max would have tried to late brake and knowing he wont make the corner ran wide. If you don't run wide then then you could also end up having the rear of the car go into Lewis. This is what happened with Tsunoda and stroll.

I don't see the point debating it. Lewis drove awesomely well, MAx tried hard to defend but couldn't. Alls well that ends well.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by BlueFreedom

+ 1 This
Max took that corner 71 times and oddly only once did he make no attempt to actually turn into it and instead choose to run wide. By an amazing coincidence, it happened to be the time he was about to be overtaken, and they only didn’t crash because Hamilton ran wider. It’s so blatant I think you have to call the integrity of the stewards into question. And before anyone says it made no difference in the end, a 5 second penalty puts Bottas in 2nd. Just a disgrace, plain and simple

It's called defending, buddy. I guess Lewis fans expect all other drivers on the grid to just step aside and allow him to overtake? Much wow!

Originally Posted by Ashishkel

Investigation is needed, or the opinion of needing an investigation came up because, Max had the gap to turn into the tarmac,.but he intentionally ran wide. So all of them are waiting for cockpit footage to see how his steering wheel is tilted.

We all know Crofty and Brundle, being British, are going to favour British drivers. They always have and they always will.

And yes, I don't need to concede but it is true that Max ran Lewis intentionally wide. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is called defending. Lewis has done that countless times. Why was there no investigation necessary? Simple, there was no contact! Was there no contact because Lewis ran wider and steered clear? Yes. Because Lewis has more to lose than Max does.

Originally Posted by Ashishkel

Max looked lost after that overtaking. Don't know whether he wanted to derisk his 2nd place with Valttery some 10s down.
But I expected more fight from him. Usually he comes back strongly. Yesterday he didn't.

Yes, because Lewis who was at P10 at the start of the race overtook Max with over 15 laps to spare and proceeded to widen the gap by a further 10 seconds. In fact, the driver that finished P10 (I think it was Lando) was a lap down when Lewis crossed the chequered flag.

Red Bull had no answers to Mercedes' turn of pace. At this rate, Mercedes can continue taking engine penalties, swallow grid-penalties for breakfast and still finish P1!

Originally Posted by Ashishkel

No one is calling Baku as Max's fault. Lewis just lost his nerve .

I wouldn't put it past them, especially the ones groaning on about Max not getting penalized for defending his position.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Hamilton has broken Max’s sprit today, I feel this is the turn around and Mercedes/Hamilton are going to win both championships.

I don’t even remember when the black and white flag was last waved at anybody in Formula 1. Max cracked wide open under pressure, that was the craziest and most lousy thing to do on the straight. Max weaved two to three times across the track, dangerous driving and the signs of a loser.

Earlier I said let the better man win, but with this type of behaviour I hope Hamilton and Mercedes sweep both titles.

Magnificent display of will and skill from Hamilton

Cheers

The black and white flag was last waved at Charles Leclerc 2019 Monza.

Weaving on the straight is allowed to an extent, it is done to break the tow for the driver trying to slipstream behind and not for reasons you may think.

You must be new to Formula 1?

Originally Posted by Ashishkel

It is a racing incident, mostly. But it has to be ensured too. Let the cockpit footage come out. Then we will know if it was intentional. Even if it's intentional, it might not be illegal. But it shows another face of Max - one that does not care about fellow drivers.

But just because MSC was like this, Max doesn't have to be like MSC.Michael was ruthless. It was a different era too.

If Max wants to follow MSC footsteps, then he should stop crying. And Horner also should stop crying. Cos driving dangerously without any regards for ethics and safety is not good endorsement for this sport. What if someone actually gets hurt? This is what Max fan boys should understand too.

Only Lewis fans are complaining, why? Cos this year, there is just one car which can remotely match RBs pace. That's Merc.

Actually I remember hearing Checo asking RB for slip steam from Max. It was the joke of the day. What was he thinking. It is a one way traffic. He has to help max. Max is not gonna help him back

You are right. There are shades of MSC in Max. Personally, I do not like Max. I do not like Red Bull. They are toxic. Max holds no quarter. Red Bull may have created several F1 careers but they have equally killed several. And about the comment that Max is driving dangerously without any regard for ethics and safety is an incorrect statement to make. I concede that he was dangerous in the beginning and downright reckless, but he has driven with a lot of maturity this year and has improved tremendously. He has collected only 2 penalty points this year, and that was for mounting Lewis' car in Monza, and that was the right decision. But if there is anyone who should be pulled up for reckless driving it is Sir Lewis for his cute move at Corpse corner, first on the outside and then on the inside, finally deciding to go straight into Max instead of hitting the apex. Still, I would write it down as a racing incident but blind Lewis fans will say otherwise.

The thing about Max, is that he will leave the other driver to decide whether there should be a crash, and that is a ruthless approach which in my opinion is fair. Because, hello, they are no longer in the Mercedes theme park here, they are not riding ponies and collecting gold stars. They are racing to win. Hamilton has 7 titles to his name, some of those titles were hard fought, but his dominance especially over the last few years is being questioned, and the sport started getting boring.. so boring that Netflix decided to make a show about it to bring back old fans and even bring in some new ones. Meanwhile, Max has no titles and is hungry for one. The hunger is apparent. And Lewis has finally met his match!

Lewis fans are complaining because it was smooth sailing, relatively, for Mercedes and Lewis since 2014, barring 2016 when Nico showed him up. When the competition has finally caught up with Lewis, you will see the complaining and the crying. And let's get one thing straight about this statement:

Cos this year, there is just one car which can remotely match RBs pace. That's Merc.

It should actually read: there is only one car which can remotely match Merc's pace, and that's RB!

Checo asking for a tow - well that was funny. Checo knows his place in the side. Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes have inculcated toxic garage atmospheres. It's what happens when the racing is close and the competition is hot. it was all fine and dandy for Bottas when Lewis was walking everyone. Suddenly this year, Bottas is on the block despite being a stellar 2nd driver for Mercedes! That's just how the cookie crumbles, I'm afraid.

Anyway, I am clearly outnumbered here with many Lewis fanboys and their pitchforks and carpets and whatnot. One thing is for sure, I will have renewed respect for Lewis if he wins the title this year because he has finally met his match.

[White Aviator]

After going through this entire thread and being an F1 fan for long, I can safely say that mod suhaas307 has made the most sense and has been unbiased in his posts so I implore anyone posting further to either read the thread or atleast read his posts as it's getting a bit too steamy.

I've always wanted a thread to discuss F1 on Team-BHP and I found this the first time and would hate it to be shut down due to all the arguments.

Before posting everyone must remember that every driver has his own fans so please be careful not to offend anyone. Me being a Max fan was not happy with some of the posts but refrained from replying as it would add fuel to the fire.

Everyone can learn a bit from suhaas307 while posting anything on how to be fair as there are always two sides to the coin.

[BlueFreedom]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

It's called defending, buddy. I guess Lewis fans expect all other drivers on the grid to just step aside and allow him to overtake? Much wow!

Not in my definition, as I have said in my earlier post I'm all for wheel to wheel racing, but there is always a question mark on Max's overtake and defending, if it goes his way its brave and let them race from Christian Horner and Marko otherwise its all Alex Albon trying to mimic something not their and convince FIA to handle penalties where none exist.

In just this season Max has

1. Turned into Hamilton at Silverstone (again debatable)
2. Parked his car on Hamilton's head at Monza rather than go through the runoff area.
3. Defended his line so hard today he ran both himself and Hamilton off the track.
4. Defended his position today by weaving back and forth across the track and drew the 'unsportsmanlike conduct' flag for his trouble.

I'm not in anyway suggesting Ham is saint but Max always comes out as a dirty racer. Clean defending and overtaking the old dogs Kimi and Alonso have shown how it can be done without crossing the limits.
Not a fan of Lewis but a die hard of Kimi so no dog in this race and yes I dislike Max

[anb]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The incident is pure and simple hard racing beyond the limit. We have seen Senna do it, Schumacher do it and others as well. The stewards also agreed that as long as there is no contact, there is no need to penalize or investigate.

https://youtu.be/r8Br99nj6nI

This doesn’t seem to be a racing incident to me. Anyways let’s wait for the missing footage.

[SAK-XXVII]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Funny how Lewis' fans are calling for a penalty to be levied on Max when the two did not even touch!

Well you need not touch, hit or punt someone to get a penalty. It can be anything unfair that gives you an advantage or hold on to a lasting advantage on the track.

Rewind 2019 Canadian GP, Seb Vettel made an error going into the chicane, cut the chicane and came back out and blocked Lewis. The matter was referred to the stewards, they analyzed the data and gave him a 5 second time penalty that robbed him the win despite leading the whole race.

Fast forward 2021 Sao Paulo GP, Max runs Lewis wide, no touching no punting, ok fair but he ran him wide. That matter was not referred to the stewards and the race director(Masi) said no further investigation necessary. I mean why? He did not even have the complete data! He did not have the front onboard! But still makes a decision. That did not go well tbh.

Knowing what a great weekend the stewards have had, Max would have very much been in contention for a 5 second time penalty.

But yeah, sometimes life is unfair. Sometimes life is fair.
Sometimes punting another car is fair, sometimes its not.
A small nick can be big, a big hit can be small blip.
Thats racing.

The link to the article:- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aut...t/6783852/amp/

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by White Aviator

After going through this entire thread and being an F1 fan for long, I can safely say that mod suhaas307 has made the most sense and has been unbiased in his posts so I implore anyone posting further to either read the thread or atleast read his posts as it's getting a bit too steamy.

I've always wanted a thread to discuss F1 on Team-BHP and I found this the first time and would hate it to be shut down due to all the arguments.

Before posting everyone must remember that every driver has his own fans so please be careful not to offend anyone. Me being a Max fan was not happy with some of the posts but refrained from replying as it would add fuel to the fire.

Everyone can learn a bit from suhaas307 while posting anything on how to be fair as there are always two sides to the coin.

Thank you!

The problem I see here is people reading selectively.

Like I said, I am a Danny Ric fan, and a Kimi fan, and even a Vettel fan. I do not like Max, but I like the fact that Lewis is finally being shown up.

Originally Posted by BlueFreedom

In just this season Max has

1. Turned into Hamilton at Silverstone (again debatable)
2. Parked his car on Hamilton's head at Monza rather than go through the runoff area.
3. Defended his line so hard today he ran both himself and Hamilton off the track.
4. Defended his position today by weaving back and forth across the track and drew the 'unsportsmanlike conduct' flag for his trouble.

I'm not in anyway suggesting Ham is saint but Max always comes out as a dirty racer. Clean defending and overtaking the old dogs Kimi and Alonso have shown how it can be done without crossing the limits.
Not a fan of Lewis but a die hard of Kimi so no dog in this race and yes I dislike Max

1. Like you said - debatable. You see it as Max turning into Ham. I see it as Lewis sticking his nose into a corner, intentionally (or maybe unintentionally because the tyres would have been cold and he understeered?) smacking Max.
2. Yes, he could have driven into the run off, but again the door was kept open for quite a while and when it was closing, it was too late to dive into the run off. You make it sound like he intentionally parked his car on Lewis' head. Now, that is not fair.
3. It's called defending, and whether he braked too late or braked early enough but didn't steer enough, doesn't really matter, does it?
4. He was defending his position, but the idea was to break the tow and it is very common practice. Weaving is not illegal, but excessive weaving is. What he did was illegal and he got the black-and-white flag for it.

By the way, Kimi and Alonso aren't saint either. There are countless videos of drivers racing hard and sometimes their moves were questionable.

Originally Posted by anb

This doesn’t seem to be a racing incident to me. Anyways let’s wait for the missing footage.

Of course it doesn't. Lewis is not used to such moves especially over the last few years, because he would shoot off into the distance and would lap everyone but the top 3 drivers.

[quote=SAK-XXVII;5196100]Well you need not touch, hit or punt someone to get a penalty. It can be anything unfair that gives you an advantage or hold on to a lasting advantage on the track.

Completely agree..

Originally Posted by SAK-XXVII

Rewind 2019 Canadian GP, Seb Vettel made an error going into the chicane, cut the chicane and came back out and blocked Lewis. The matter was referred to the stewards, they analyzed the data and gave him a 5 second time penalty that robbed him the win despite leading the whole race

..but that is not what happened yesterday in Sao Paulo.

Originally Posted by SAK-XXVII

Knowing what a great weekend the stewards have had, Max would have very much been in contention for a 5 second time penalty.

But yeah, sometimes life is unfair. Sometimes life is fair.
Sometimes punting another car is fair, sometimes its not.
A small nick can be big, a big hit can be small blip.
Thats racing.

The link to the article:- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aut...t/6783852/amp/

Here is an extract from the above article:

Asked if there was any inconsistency with other recent decisions, Masi replied: "I'd disagree that it's inconsistent. You have a look at it, and as I've said many times before, you judge the incident on its merits, and you have a look at all of it.

“And let's not forget, we have the overall let them race principles, and looking at it all, with all of the angles that we had available, that philosophy was adopted."

Asked why let them race applied in this case he said: "I think if you look proximity of the cars, getting into the apex, where it is, nature of the corner. The fact that both cars went off, neither car lost position or anything like that, that was probably the general view of it."

I will leave it at that!

[SAK-XXVII]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

..but that is not what happened yesterday in Sao Paulo.

The underlying principle is the same
*One driver pushed another driver off the track*

What i meant was if a driver with an unintentional error pushes a driver off and gets a penalty, the one who deliberately(or not, can't be sure till we see the footage) does it should also be treated the same way.

I am not against Lewis, i am not against Max
But i feel the race director could have bought some time and have a thorough view of the whole incident before concluding.

They are racing hard, but in my opinion, i may be wrong, that incident was definitely worthy of a 5 second time penalty for max.

I'll leave it there.