[ninjatalli]

^^ Nice guys finish last. Literally, I guess, in F1.

[Chalu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

You should look up the meaning of the word predominantly. It means mainly / mostly.

And you are wrong about Max requiring to leave him space. He doesn’t have to. Just like how Lewis was not wrong to close the door on him in Monza, Max was entitled to defend his position. What was the alternative for someone battling for the title? Are you suggesting he steps aside like Charles Leclerc did on the same corner in the same race? They are fighting for the title here, not a certificate at the spelling bee.

And again, if you read my previous posts you can see that I am not calling either of them saints, Max is an aggressive driver, but you seem to be suggesting Lewis can do no wrong!

At this point now you are just trolling like all the other Lewis fanboys on this thread without even thinking your arguments through. You can do better, c’mon!

The best part here is the banter between Lewis fans & haters to justify their views that fans say he is the GOAT & haters having clouded views saying he has to drive a landmover for them to prove he is a great driver.

Please continue with the rant its popcorn time

[anb]

Palmer's F1 TV analysis of the incident.

https://youtu.be/mZquZxUHtC0

[sravankrishnan]

Just saw quite an important piece of information on the RaceFans site. In Suzuka 2019, Leclerc ran wide into Verstappen and it was deemed that no investigation was necessary. After the race however, the stewards themselves decided that the incident should be investigated. They did, and ended up giving Leclerc a 5-second penalty.

That's a critical precedent that they set. Since Mercedes has now gone forwards with their appeal, the FIA will definitely re-investigate it and maybe use the new evidence in the form of Verstappen's onboard to penalize him perhaps.

The stewarding was a bit of a joke. If they did not have the footage I wonder why they decided not to investigate it at all. They could at least have said that it would be investigated after the race, since the move looked sketchy at best to most even without seeing his onboard. In that case, Verstappen would have known that he may yet get a penalty and would perhaps have built up a larger gap over Bottas.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

If Max had punted Lewis in Brazil, a penalty would be a no-brainer. Just as it happened in Silverstone, Lewis got the 5-second penalty for punting him out (should have been much harsher in my opinion, considering it was a massive accident that Lewis could have avoided).

Lewis got a 10 second penalty in the race I watched live Why you are not mentioning about the Monza debacle

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Chalu

The best part here is the banter between Lewis fans & haters to justify their views that fans say he is the GOAT & haters having clouded views saying he has to drive a landmover for them to prove he is a great driver.

Please continue with the rant its popcorn time

This post reeks of bias.

1) Lewis fans vs. haters.
2) haters having clouded views
3) saying he has to drive a lawn-mower to prove he is a good driver

None of the above statements were made by any of the so-called Lewis haters.

Originally Posted by myavu

Lewis got a 10 second penalty in the race I watched live Why you are not mentioning about the Monza debacle

If you read the posts carefully you will find it. It's not fine print. Plain and simple English.

Originally Posted by aim120

Please go through your posts in this thread from the very beginning you start of at post 51 (Formula 1 | 2021 Brazil Grand Prix | Interlagos | 12-14 November, 2021),57 (Formula 1 | 2021 Brazil Grand Prix | Interlagos | 12-14 November, 2021),69 (Formula 1 | 2021 Brazil Grand Prix | Interlagos | 12-14 November, 2021)etc. Your posts are anything from a neutral fan that you claim.

Yes, I implore you to read all my posts properly and carefully, and not in bits and pieces.

If you are unable to find the portions that express my neutral views please let me know, I will gladly re-share them here.

Anyway, I am out of this discussion. I truly hope Lewis wins because that will prove that, despite stiff competition, he was able to collect the title, and this win will not dilute his other easy title wins since 2014.

Cheers, everyone!

[myavu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

If you read the posts carefully you will find it. It's not fine print. Plain and simple English.

OMG! I am quoting it again below

If Max had punted Lewis in Brazil, a penalty would be a no-brainer. Just as it happened in Silverstone, Lewis got the 5-second penalty for punting him out (should have been much harsher in my opinion, considering it was a massive accident that Lewis could have avoided).

For your kind information Lewis got a 10 second penalty.

Hope you are reading it properly now Please don't post wrong information and put a debate on it.

From a proud so called Lewis Fanboy here.

Regards

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by myavu

OMG! I am quoting it again below

Hope you are reading it properly now Please don't post wrong information and put a debate on it.

From a proud so called Lewis Fanboy here.

Regards

Now you are arguing semantics. 5 seconds / 10 seconds.. Could have been 20 and he still would have romped to the chequered flag. What's the difference? He should have been handed a race ban for that move.

I know you will now say Leclerc was just 4 seconds behind, Lewis would have finished P2 if it was a 20 second penalty.. Because that's what fanboys do. they argue semantics. It's like clutching onto straws.

It reminds me of the Nelson Piquet - Eliseo Salazar incident in the 1982 German GP when Salazar tried his cute move coming from the back and nicked Piquet's tail while trying to overtake, causing a huge collision. Both drivers came to blows immediately after this incident. But Lewis in Silverstone was lucky to drive off after causing the 51g shunt and then celebrate like he won the title.

Anyway, I am out! Toodles!

[myavu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Now you are arguing semantics. 5 seconds / 10 seconds...

So your point is that if Lewis was driving a Haas then 5 seconds were enough and since he is driving the mighty Merc he should at least serve a 30 sec penalty or as per RB clan a disqualification. FIA already mentioned that the penalty is not consequential. They don't care about what's going to happen after the penalty. What if Lewis crashed after penalty? Will you say that 10 seconds was harsh?

You have your own so called unbiased opinion and we all fanboys have our own opinions. Why so irritated? If you dislike Lewis since he's driving a rocket Merc, then it's your problem. My point was that in your debate it was mere 5 seconds penalty when the actual was 10 seconds which itself was a harsh penalty. Unfortunately for the others Lewis won that race and suddenly that 10 seconds became mere.

[Chalu]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

This post reeks of bias.

1) Lewis fans vs. haters.
2) haters having clouded views
3) saying he has to drive a lawn-mower to prove he is a good driver

None of the above statements were made by any of the so-called Lewis haters, but you are a fanboy just like the other chap above (who I shall not dignify with a response) will find a way to twist things.



If you read the posts carefully you will find it. It's not fine print. Plain and simple English.



Yes, I implore you to read all my posts properly and carefully, and not in bits and pieces.

If you are unable to find the portions that express my neutral views please let me know, I will gladly re-share them here.

Usually, neutral views are also not accepted by crazy fans and fanboys, because any view that contradicts their extreme bias is usually considered extreme as well. Truly a pity, as I was looking to have some meaningful discussions here but instead, the Lewis army of trolls rained down upon this thread, completely outnumbering the neutral true-F1 loving fans by making brash, incoherent and extremely contradictory statements that are just shocking to say the very least.

Anyway, I am out of this discussion. I truly hope Lewis wins because that will prove that, despite stiff competition, he was able to collect the title, and this win will not dilute his other easy title wins since 2014.

Cheers, everyone!

You calling me a fan boy of Hamilton

All the hate you have against Lewis brings out the worst in you where you are going to great extent to demean a driver to justify your views by coming up with crazy arguments.

Take a chill pill man after all its a sport with all the drama.

[AJITHAAA]

This 51G accident reference is being thrown around a lot. Yes it was the result of an 'ACCIDENT', nobody is aiming cause a collision and to put another person through the exact value. 51G would have been registered by the sensors may be for a microsecond at the point of impact with the barrier. Like in audio terms 10000W PMPO, this number is reached only for a fraction of a second at some point during its operation. The driver might have felt dizzy or suffered some bruises after that, It was far far better than an F1 car landing on some ones head.
Thinking about it, the lap 48 incident was identical to the British GP in reverse. If LH had decided complete the move, he would have clipped the Redbull and ended up in the barrier may be suffering 52G. But the experience was on his side and he backed off since he knew he could take the position later.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

If you are unable to find the portions that express my neutral views please let me know, I will gladly re-share them here.

I already shared some of your posts, its all out there for everyone to see. I can also hypothetically claim I have no bias and I am of fan of some other driver and yet continue to bash or egg fans of a particular driver. When multiple people here are saying something about your posts, please look at it rationally. If you cannot, lets just agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I was looking to have some meaningful discussions here but instead, the Lewis army of trolls rained down upon this thread, completely outnumbering the neutral true-F1 loving fans by making brash, incoherent and extremely contradictory statements that are just shocking to say the very least.

It was meaningful until hate filled posts arrived in this thread. All they wanted was an investigation or the footage to come out. Immediately you labeled them fanboys, trolls and yet your posts are filled with hate for Lewis and contradictory statements like the post 69 of this thread, that I quoted earlier.
I am truly worried if some one hijacked your tbhp account.

[suhaas307]

Can't believe I am here again, but I need to clarify some points.

Originally Posted by myavu

So your point is that if Lewis was driving a Haas then 5 seconds were enough and since he is driving the mighty Merc he should at least serve a 30 sec penalty or as per RB clan a disqualification. FIA already mentioned that the penalty is not consequential. They don't care about what's going to happen after the penalty. What if Lewis crashed after penalty? Will you say that 10 seconds was harsh?

You have your own so called unbiased opinion and we all fanboys have our own opinions. Why so irritated? If you dislike Lewis since he's driving a rocket Merc, then it's your problem. My point was that in your debate it was mere 5 seconds penalty when the actual was 10 seconds which itself was a harsh penalty. Unfortunately for the others Lewis won that race and suddenly that 10 seconds became mere.

My response to your post pertains to the "why I am not mentioning about the Monza debacle" and not the 5 second 10 second statement. I did mention it, and I did say that Verstappen could have avoided the accident in Monza.

Also, if the roles were reversed, and it was Verstappen who put Lewis in the wall and caused a 51g shunt, I will call for a race ban too, because Verstappen has a track record for being too aggressive - another point that I have made clear in one of my previous posts.

Originally Posted by Chalu

You calling me a fan boy of Hamilton

All the hate you have against Lewis brings out the worst in you where you are going to great extent to demean a driver to justify your views by coming up with crazy arguments.

Take a chill pill man after all its a sport with all the drama.

My hate is not targeted at Lewis, Sir. I mentioned at the very beginning that I was a Lewis fan and even followed him during his junior Formula days pre-2007. My hate is towards fanboys generally. And it's not restricted to F1 or sports in general. It's all encompassing. Fanboys who can't see things in a balanced manner. I have said time and again that the Silverstone accident was predominantly Lewis' fault and that the Monza incident was predominantly Verstappen's fault. But what I see here is - both incidents were Verstappen's fault only, Lewis is a clean driver, Verstappen needs to be "reigned in", and what have you. These statements were hate-filled and made with the intention to troll and cause an unnecessary stir.

Originally Posted by AJITHAAA

This 51G accident reference is being thrown around a lot. Yes it was the result of an 'ACCIDENT', nobody is aiming cause a collision and to put another person through the exact value. 51G would have been registered by the sensors may be for a microsecond at the point of impact with the barrier. Like in audio terms 10000W PMPO, this number is reached only for a fraction of a second at some point during its operation. The driver might have felt dizzy or suffered some bruises after that, It was far far better than an F1 car landing on some ones head.

Please do not downplay the incident. Have you ever been involved in a 51g shunt? if you are not physically fit, you can do some serious internal damage to your organs. Writing it off as a "oh, driver may have felt dizzy, suffered some bruises.." is downplaying what could have been a very serious and life-threatening incident. And let's not compare the two accident-results. Verstappen's crash was just as bad as Lewis'. Spinal injury is not a joke either, and as you said yourself, nobody intends to cause such accidents. I'm sure Max did not wake up that day and say "well, I'm going to climb on top of Lewis' car and hit him on the head with my tyre."

Originally Posted by AJITHAAA

Thinking about it, the lap 48 incident was identical to the British GP in reverse. If LH had decided complete the move, he would have clipped the Redbull and ended up in the barrier may be suffering 52G. But the experience was on his side and he backed off since he knew he could take the position later.

This is where Lewis is the better driver - because he takes a more calculated approach than Max.

Originally Posted by aim120

I already shared some of your posts, its all out there for everyone to see. I can also hypothetically claim I have no bias and I am of fan of some other driver and yet continue to bash or egg fans of a particular driver. When multiple people here are saying something about your posts, please look at it rationally. If you cannot, lets just agree to disagree.

It was meaningful until hate filled posts arrived in this thread. All they wanted was an investigation or the footage to come out. Immediately you labeled them fanboys, trolls and yet your posts are filled with hate for Lewis and contradictory statements like the post 69 of this thread, that I quoted earlier.
I am truly worried if some one hijacked your tbhp account.

You don't need to be worried, nobody hacked my account. Please point me to post 69 that was troublesome or contradictory. And what about it was contradictory?

I will make a genuine effort to clear my statements, and I will admit to any contrary stance I have taken (except one - that was a joke).

Also, can we all agree to stop this now? I do not want to argue anymore. I am sure we all love the sport and we all love the drivers on the grid (except Verstappen ). I want to make the effort to bring this thread back on track because it was derailed and to some extent, I am to blame for the derailment and I feel it is my responsibility to bring it back on track.

[AJITHAAA]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Please do not downplay the incident. Have you ever been involved in a 51g shunt? if you are not physically fit, you can do some serious internal damage to your organs. Writing it off as a "oh, driver may have felt dizzy, suffered some bruises.." is downplaying what could have been a very serious and life-threatening incident. And let's not compare the two accident-results. Verstappen's crash was just as bad as Lewis'. Spinal injury is not a joke either, and as you said yourself, nobody intends to cause such accidents. I'm sure Max did not wake up that day and say "well, I'm going to climb on top of Lewis' car and hit him on the head with my tyre."

I am not downplaying any accident at all. The severity depends on the outcome for the parties involved. The car is a major factor and much of the impact was taken by the car and the barrier hence the driver was able to walk away. We know that for a fact.
But having involved in a crash like that, shouldn't be pushing to be in the same scenario again having know all weekend that the Mercs were miles ahead. May be he will learn with experience.

[Yusha]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Oh, you mean like when Lewis ran Verstappen wide and over the sausage kerbs in Monza? Remember Verstappen was on the outside and Lewis shut the door on him a little too late, much like Lewis' move on Verstappen yesterday.

That was Verstappen's corner, everyone and his dog knows this. And Lewis tried something cute on the inside, clearly nowhere close to the apex. I want to say it was intentional but I won't, because I honestly do not think Lewis is that dirty a driver. But to say that Verstappen is to be fully blamed for that incident is quite shocking and makes me wonder if you even watched the race! Anyway, you seem to be a Lewis fan going by your strong bias, and Lewis fans will never accept that he can make mistakes and will always find a way to blame everything else around him if things don't work out.

M

The mistake Lewis made in Monza is that he shut the door too late. He should have driven Max to the edge of the track much earlier.

It is true that a car on the outside of a corner is on the mercy of the car on the inside. The driver on the inside can push the driver on the outside till the curb or beyond.

This is not what Max did. He had absolutely no intention of making the corner. The onboard video is now out, which was not available at the time of the incident, and it is clear that Max made no effort to turn the car into the corner on the normal racing line. He opened the steering and ran himself and Lewis off the track onto the run off area. This was definitely worthy of a penalty.

This was definitely not a racing incident.

FIA will decide if the incident will be reviewed based based on Mercedes's request for a review which was filed today by the Mercedes team.

Normally such reviews are denied since teams are normally unable to present new evidence which is a mandatory requirement for such post race incident reviews. But in this case Mercedes has the onboard video which will be considered new evidence since the same was not available to the Stewards during the race.

Honestly, there is no point in reviewing the incident now and giving some meaningless time penalty to Max. It's totally unnecessary. But let's see what happens.

Also, I have been watching F1 for a long time and I have seen all the greats and the tricks they have pulled to win races and championships and also lose them with shoddy driving.

Schumacher lost a championship in 1997 in Jerez when he turned into JV who was on the inside. And won one in 1994 when he collided with Damon Hill on purpose after hitting a wall and coming back on track.

These guys just hate to lose hence they do what they have to, to win.