[Hatari]

What a race. Great drive by Lewis, determined and without mistakes.
I am very curious to know how much of an advantage the new power unit gave him though - It needs to run for less than half its planned life.

Interestingly, Bottas went wide at the same corner on Lap 1 as Max did, while on the identical racing line.

For the drivers and FIA, its all in the fine margins, drivers are constantly pushing the boundaries (incrementally even) and the FIA need to take a call when to draw a line.

Originally Posted by anb

If Alonso was so much better than Hamilton, how did they end up with the same points in 2007 on Hamilton's rookie season in spite of being in the same team?

To put things in perspective, pl compare the first season at a new team for a few current drivers and the time it took them to get comfortable - Ricciardo/Sainz/Perez.

Alonso being on the same points is quite an achievement, given Lewis Hamilton drove more miles testing that McLaren than any rookie driver in the history of Formula 1.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by mayankk

I know what camp you're in, because I was in the same one with different players.

Anyone should win as long as he's not Schumi.

Anyone should win, as long as he's not vettel.
Bin there, don that.

To be honest, yes I was in this camp because I was tired of the Mercedes dominance, especially because it wasn't solely down to driver's skill. But not anymore. I am in no one's camp. May the best driver win, has been my moto since the 2nd half of this year. Both max and Lewis are equally deserving of the title. The move Max pulled on the top two drivers in Mexico and Lewis' charge through the field in Brazil shows that they are both equally deserving of the title.

With Schumi it was a mix of Ferrari and the driver. Same with Vettel.

Originally Posted by mayankk

It's been a dominating run for mercedes, but it's ignorant to assume that they would favor a rookie over a multiple world champion because of any kind of favoritism. It's a billion dollar corp, not a charity, or a Mallya. They want gold, and they have and will back the one who gets it. Their 24 carat is the constructors.

Oh, but Sir they very much did. The favoritism was all but obvious. Of course, I liked it because I was rooting for a rookie to take the title so I ignored all the obvious signs and demonized Alonso in the process.

Originally Posted by mayankk

You've got a problem with hamilton winning, and with his fanboys. I had the same with schumi and his, as well as vettel. And it will always be so.

Actually, no! I do not have a problem with Hamilton winning. If he can win with the competition he has this year, there would be new-found respect for him.

I have a problem with Ham fanboys calling for penalties when the occasion to levy a penalty is yet to present itself. Ham fanboys asking for telemetry data, steering angle, brake inputs, etc. is just shocking stuff when two drivers are racing each other and fighting for points and the title. It's almost like they are upset that Lewis has finally met his match and cannot deal with it.

Originally Posted by mayankk

Mercedes were not expecting to be where they are this season. It was quite late that they've focused on this year. The plan was always to throw it all at the next year's car. Next year russell will be there, young and fresh. Lewis still has fight in him, but I doubt he'll be the blue eyed boy as you so eloquently put it. It just might be Russell too. The championship just might turn into a head to head between the two. Who knows.

But mercedes will always want the two championships, and not looking to see if Hamilton should get 3 chocolates against Russell only 2. Or vice versa.

I think Toto very publicly stated that Russel will be put in his place when he finds himself permanently in the Mercedes. As long as Lewis is around, Mercedes will pander to his every need and desire. Russel will get his chance only after Hamilton retires. Hope it isn't too late by then.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Vettel too, was in the right team at the right time. But the crucial difference between Vettel’s tenure at Red Bull and Hamilton’s time with Mercedes, is Vettel couldn’t run away with the title (except 2013 I suppose) the way Mercedes have been doing since 2014. Both the 2010 and 2012 seasons were closely fought. Vettel had to deal with some stiff competition and it wasn’t a cake-walk like it has been for Mercedes and Lewis. Meanwhile, Mercedes have been largely unchallenged since 2014 up until now of course.

True, Vettel had some stiff competition from Ferrari / Alonso back then, McLaren was on the decline and Mercedes was not in the same level as now. But the support Vettel had within Red Bull was immense, and so was the case for Alonso in Ferrari (the latter couldn’t turn that into his advantage though). Folks like Webber and Massa were the victims back then

I remember a group of us cheering loud at a sports café here in Singapore when young Alonso was ending the Ferrari/Schumacher dominance. Now can see the same level of hatred (or a wish for change) against Mercedes/Hamilton

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by vb-san

True, Vettel had some stiff competition from Ferrari / Alonso back then, McLaren was on the decline and Mercedes was not in the same level as now. But the support Vettel had within Red Bull was immense, and so was the case for Alonso in Ferrari (the latter couldn’t turn that into his advantage though). Folks like Webber and Massa were the victims back then

I remember a group of us cheering loud at a sports café here in Singapore when young Alonso was ending the Ferrari/Schumacher dominance. Now can see the same level of hatred (or a wish for change) against Mercedes/Hamilton

Absolutely!

When you are at the top, it is usually quite lonely. Schumi has experienced this, as has Vettel and as is Hamilton right now. When these drivers move to teams that are on the decline, you will suddenly see their “human” side and their past victories will be greatly appreciated and cherished.

Unfortunately for Hamilton his dominance was the result of a brilliant F1 car and not just his talent or skill. He may be remembered fondly for some of his races, including the one last weekend at São Paulo. But he will also be remembered by true F1 fans as the driver who was able to dominate because he had the best team rallying behind him and the best car on the grid by a very long shot. He is no doubt one of the best F1 drivers to have ever raced, but he is definitely not the greatest of all time. Much like Sachin Tendulkar vs. Sir Don Bradman.

[anb]

Originally Posted by Hatari

To put things in perspective, pl compare the first season at a new team for a few current drivers and the time it took them to get comfortable - Ricciardo/Sainz/Perez.

Alonso being on the same points is quite an achievement, given Lewis Hamilton drove more miles testing that McLaren than any rookie driver in the history of Formula 1.

We are saying about 2007. The champion in 2007 was Kimi and it was his first season with Ferrari. Also we have seen Riccardo outperforming Vettel in his first season with Redbull in 2014.

[iamahunter]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Absolutely!

When you are at the top, it is usually quite lonely. Schumi has experienced this, as has Vettel and as is Hamilton right now. When these drivers move to teams that are on the decline, you will suddenly see their “human” side and their past victories will be greatly appreciated and cherished.

Totally agree with you on this.
Only Kimi has managed to stay neutral throughout. Bwooah!

Also would like to add, Vettel does his good deeds genuinely and on his own, no marketing, no insta posts, no loud twitter statement.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Unfortunately for Hamilton his dominance was the result of a brilliant F1 car and not just his talent or skill. He may be remembered fondly for some of his races, including the one last weekend at São Paulo. But he will also be remembered by true F1 fans as the driver who was able to dominate because he had the best team rallying behind him and the best car on the grid by a very long shot. He is no doubt one of the best F1 drivers to have ever raced, but he is definitely not the greatest of all time. Much like Sachin Tendulkar vs. Sir Don Bradman.

Lewis always had a better car. Back when he joined Mclaren, they were at their "A" game. Mclaren started to have downfall and engine/car issues and that was the exact time when Lewis left the boat.
Never in a average car, has Lewis ever won a championship.

Unlike, for example Schumacher who joined Ferrari at their worst and built the team up, and similar with Brawn GP(which is Mercedes now).

[aim120]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Absolutely!



Unfortunately for Hamilton his dominance was the result of a brilliant F1 car and not just his talent or skill. He may be remembered fondly for some of his races, including the one last weekend at São Paulo. But he will also be remembered by true F1 fans as the driver who was able to dominate because he had the best team rallying behind him and the best car on the grid by a very long shot. He is no doubt one of the best F1 drivers to have ever raced, but he is definitely not the greatest of all time. Much like Sachin Tendulkar vs. Sir Don Bradman.

Lets see Max, was only able to come out on the top after literally upgrades brought out by redbull on every other weekend vs 1 upgrade for mercedes. They also have 3 others cars to give a tow, to steal fastest laps and hold up the mercedes drivers up whether in race or pits or (example This year Lewis loosing out in pitstop to Max because Gasley is making is way into the pits , while lewis was held up, waiting for a green light. All these are timed to perfection by Redbull).

Just after the second race of this season Max was saying he needs a faster package, which he has now got. The same Max will be in no mans land without upgrades.

So it works both ways. One needs a good car and a driver to dominate and lewis is one such driver.

Rich boy Max, whose entire family is into racing vs Lewis a guy starting out with a beat up go kart. His rise up and his place with Mclaren was by sheer driving skill and determination. Niki saw the potential in him and scooped him up and rest is history.

In the first F1 season itself you have not seen how much of a upward climb it was for him. F1 was racists way more back then. He was literally called out names by spanish Alonso fans and still is today by them along with the orange army.

I have at one point never liked Michael(for his dominance), Alonso(Since brake checking DC), Vettel( dominance), Lewis(new brat in 07,08). Hell at one point I didn't even like Rossi.

Max on the other hand is still not matured on track. The only way they will learn a lesson is via penalty for their dangerous driving.

[NKB]

I am not a fan of any particular driver now. I like racing. I like the sport.

As a fan of racing, I don’t see any greatness in Hamilton’s win in Brazil. Its different to have a comparably faster or relatively faster car and then win fighting other drivers. Here Hamilton had a super fast car and others just didn’t had anything to fight with.

As I said I am not a fan of any particular driver now (am/was a MSC fan), still I want Max to win. If in any sport one particular team/player keeps wining every year the sport becomes boring. This year Max has made this season interesting and hence want him to win and then again a tight fight for next year.

As regards the incident in lap 48, I don’t see any wrong doing by Max. Late braking is only way to defend against such a super fast car and Max tried that and he never touched Hamilton as well. So for me its all ok.

I wish Max had little bit of more speed at the straights and I bet Hamilton would not have been able to pass Max and would have been crying on team radio ‘’these guys are too fast’’.. it is evident that even after having such a fast car and DRS almost every lap, Hamilton needed so much time to pass Max. It tells a lot about both the drivers.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by NKB

As a fan of racing, I don’t see any greatness in Hamilton’s win in Brazil. Its different to have a comparably faster or relatively faster car and then win fighting other drivers. Here Hamilton had a super fast car and others just didn’t had anything to fight with.

You know, now that you mention it, you are right! What was so great about the drive? That car was an absolute monster! He cleared 15 drivers in 25 laps during the sprint race. And by the time the safety cars and yellow flags were done at end of lap 10-15, Lewis was P3 from P10!

If he had done this pre-upgrades that would be something! That would have demonstrated his true ability as a driver.

At the rate Mercedes are going, they can afford to take an engine penalty every race and still finish P1 in every race! And you know what, I won’t be surprised if they do this in Abu Dhabi.

Even Lando Norris recently said that Lewis is on another level and he should be racing on 3 wheels while the rest of them should race with 4.

And I carefully watched every single overtake, and most of them were thanks to DRS. The move on Norris at the end of the sprint was great, but every other overtake was standard and rather expected considering the machinery.

I would love to see what Lewis can do in an Aston Martin or McLaren. That would be the true test.

As things stand today, the Mercedes is miles ahead (as they have been for 7 years straight), followed by Red Bull and then by McLaren/Ferrari/Alpha Tauri/Alpine/Aston Martin.

[BlueFreedom]

Originally Posted by NKB

I am not a fan of any particular driver now. I like racing. I like the sport.

As a fan of racing, I don’t see any greatness in Hamilton’s win in Brazil. Its different to have a comparably faster or relatively faster car and then win fighting other drivers. Here Hamilton had a super fast car and others just didn’t had anything to fight with.

As I said I am not a fan of any particular driver now (am/was a MSC fan), still I want Max to win.

This one gives out

I have had my moments hating Ham when he was fighting against Kimi, infact have cheered when Kimi got back his position in Spa, that is the apparent prejudice I have towards Kimi and against Ham. Having said that if Ham's drive to win from the back of the pack and the entire weekend stacked against him is not great then I do not what can be qualified as a great drive. Bottas started from pole on race day where did he end up ?, I know Max supporters will say Ham had a fresh engine but still Bottas starting from pole should have won the race.
Max is out driving and squuezing everything out his RB, compare his results with the second driver Max results are outstanding, he has the entire might of the RB team the second driver is a non entity nothing to take away from Max though an outstanding driver but a petulant character. Ham probably is not getting the same favoritism as much as Max gets in RB from Merc, I have seen several instances Bottas treated in equal terms with Ham, can we say the same about Max, spite of it Ham has produced brilliant drives and the Brazilian win is probably in the top 3 of his career if not the top.

[DIY410]

They released the footage, so atleast I can say now that it was hard racing on the limit. Although Max new he won't make the corner, atleast he didn't turn into lewis like Max did in Silverstone.

[mayankk]

So the footage from inside supramax's car confirmed that it's not a penalty worthy move, it's just incompetence...

https://www.facebook.com/56866540995...2472020909767/

[suhaas307]

Yep, looks like the footage is out and all the Ham fanboys will need to eat their words. But will they?

At least Max didn’t run into Lewis the way Lewis ran into him in Silverstone. The footage for that too is available as well, and it’s clear as day.

[aim120]

While it's not penalty worth. What if lewis didn't do avoiding actions, it would have caused a collision. Which is fine by Max since he would still lead with the same points. He would have of course then got the penalty.

But it's clear he knew what he was doing. So now drivers will know what they can get away with. Just out brake and then hope the other guys don't turn into the corner.

[BlueFreedom]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Yep, looks like the footage is out and all the Ham fanboys will need to eat their words. But will they?

At least Max didn’t run into Lewis the way Lewis ran into him in Silverstone. The footage for that too is available as well, and it’s clear as day.

I was expecting this, it was fun while it lasted, I still have a different view though