F1's Future

McLaren Rulez · 30th June 2009, 19:23

Gracia hits out at 'disrespectful' di Montezemolo - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

Fair point actually, but that doesn't give Mosley the right to stay on.

gpa · 1st July 2009, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Fair point actually, but that doesn't give Mosley the right to stay on.

I think he's being driven by greed more than anything else

McLaren Rulez · 1st July 2009, 13:56

I don't even see where the greed is coming from. The FIA president is not paid a salary (though I don't know if he gets some of the commercial rights money). Mosley's got a great reputation for boosting safety after 1994. He's got a very honorable retirement yet he chooses to make himself look bad. He sounds like a stubborn kid at times. I'm going to stop with my rant here or I'll end up being banned for what I feel like saying.

McLaren Rulez · 6th July 2009, 22:48

After Bernie's controversial comments on Adolf Hitler, PlanetF1 did this editorial.

Bernie's Top Ten Dictators

Sunday 5th July 2009

Bernie Ecclestone has been shooting the breeze and giving his views about the state of politics in the world. It turns out Bernie is not a great fan of wussie democracies and prefers the firm hand of a tyrannical leader to steer the planet's destiny.

Here's Bernie's 'Best of' the world's dictators past and present:

Adolf Hitler: "In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done."*

Saddam Hussein: "We did a terrible thing when we supported the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He was the only one who could control that country."*

Kim Jong-il: "They call him 'Dear Leader' don't they? Yes, he's an interesting man. Got a great sense of humour. Always likes letting off missiles on American national holidays. He'd be great on the World Motor Sport council."

Pol Pot: "He was a big Ferrari fan because of all that Khmer Rouge stuff. We never got round to running a grand prix in Phnom Penh. He was a bit naughty at 'disappearing' his population. You'd turn round for a minute and that'd be another 10,000 gone."

Robert Mugabe: "Bob is always on the phone trying to get a grand prix for Harare, but he hasn't got any money so I'm not interested."

Joseph Stalin: "Like me he was a country boy - I was from Suffolk and he was from Georgia and we both had to put up with city types taking the mickey. I suppose we took different approaches - I put my rivals out of business, while he just annihilated his."

Mussolini: "Wasn't he great at making the trains run on time. Silvio's not in the same league."

Mahmoud Ahmedinejad: "Mahmoud is another great joker, he loves winding up the Israleis almost as much as I like upsetting Ron Dennis, but I think it's all done in fun just to get a few headlines."

Max Mosley: "Max's great skill is being a dictator without anyone realising. He's great at working people, isn't he. You should see him and Alan Donnelly together - it's like Keith Harris and Orville. Not many people would be prepared to put their hand up there, either."

Fidel Castro: "Lovely man, great beard, but he does go on a bit."

* Incredibly, these two are verbatim quotes - the other quotes have not been verified and should be taken with a fair degree of scepticism.

P.S. This is slightly OT but I didn't think it warranted a new thread. Besides, it does have to do with F1's future as we now know the strong points of other dictatorships that Bernie would like to introduce in F1

muralisk · 9th July 2009, 08:50

Looks like the dust is not yet settled in F1. I believe that the threat of a breakaway Formula One series loomed again on Wednesday after Ferrari and seven other teams walked out of talks in Germany.

Read more - Threat of F1 breakaway series revived | Top News | Reuters

dhrishikesh · 9th July 2009, 10:32

@ muralisk,
I think the same as Bernie is really talking non-sense & he is going to loose much when ferrari & other seven teams withdraws from F1 !!
Is Force India F1 is there in those seven teams which are withdrawing from F1 with Ferrari to participate in Ferrari's new series ??

muralisk · 9th July 2009, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhrishikesh

Is Force India F1 is there in those seven teams which are withdrawing from F1 with Ferrari to participate in Ferrari's new series ??

No. Force India is one of the few which had signed unconditionally for the next season. The current members in FOTA are Brawn GP, BMW-Sauber, Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull, Renault, Toro Rosso and Toyota.

pranavt · 9th July 2009, 12:40

Back to square-one then. I was actually excited of this new series. Hope to see it happen!

McLaren Rulez · 9th July 2009, 12:47

So the breakaway is on!
Or off.
Or on.
Or...

McLaren Rulez · 9th July 2009, 21:56

Well now here's the FIA with a press release that made me fall of my chair.

09/07/2009
The FIA has this morning issued the following statement in reaction to yesterday's events, not least the statement issued by the teams' alliance.

Setting the Record Straight

Before FOTA's decision to walk out of yesterday's Technical Working Group meeting, the President of the FIA wrote twice to the President of FOTA to remind him that any amendments to the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship regulations were subject to the unanimous approval of the five teams that had already entered for next season under the rules as published.

This is because of the International Sporting Code and also because the entered teams have a contract with the FIA which not even the General Assembly or the World Council can abrogate. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of motor sport governance knows this. Imagine the uproar if, after the FOTA teams had entered, the World Council were subsequently to change the rules without asking them.

It follows that the agreement of the five teams currently entered in the 2010 World Championship to all 2010 rule changes is required. To suggest that FOTA were only made aware of this during the meetings of yesterday is quite simply untrue. So is the implicit claim that they were all unaware of one of motor sport's basic principles.

As things stand, the current members of the F1 Technical and Sporting Working Groups, in relation to 2010 are the teams which have entered the 2010 Championship. However the 8 FOTA teams were invited to the meetings in order that all 13 teams could agree the 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations which would then be the so-called 'stable regulations' in a new Concorde Agreement. The SWG took place in the morning on this basis and much progress was made. However in the afternoon the FOTA teams walked out of the TWG. Nevertheless the five entered teams were able to confirm the changes agreed by the World Council in Paris on 24 June, as announced yesterday.

It has always been the FIA's understanding that the FOTA teams wanted a Concorde Agreement in place before entering the 2010 Championship. Once entered, the FOTA teams could no longer threaten a breakaway because of the contractual position mentioned above.

The basis for the FIA agreeing to drop plans for a cost cap was the proposal prepared by the Williams team over the Silverstone weekend which would allow an agreed reduction of expenditure to the level of the early 1990s by the end of 2011 to be dealt with by the teams themselves. This reduction was agreed by FOTA and confirmed by them in Paris on 24 June. This would be a private, legally-enforceable contract involving all the teams, but not the FIA. The FIA confirmed in Paris that once this agreement is in place, the cost cap provisions can be removed from the 2010 Sporting Regulations.

The deal that the FIA reached with FOTA in Paris was to extend the 1998 Concorde Agreement with some minor amendments to the governance section. This would have put in place an F1 Commission to deal with future rules with any major question going to the FIA Senate.

However, on 25 June, instead of the 1998 Agreement with some minor amendments, the FIA received 350 pages of a completely new Concorde Agreement.

It being wholly impractical to involve the Senate in such detailed negotiations, the contract was handed over to FIA lawyers, who worked on it tirelessly over the weekend 27-28 June and gave comments during a three-hour conference call on Monday 29 June. Then the 350 pages of 25 June turned out not to be the final FOTA/FOA version and elements of a new version appeared, partly on 2 July, partly on 3 July.

Again, FIA lawyers worked over the weekend on 4-5 July, as did FIA President Max Mosley and FIA Deputy President (sport) Nick Craw. Further comments were then given on a three and a half hour lawyers' call on Monday 6 July and again in a conference call yesterday, 8 July, following the circulation of further drafts. Further significant progress was made yesterday evening in yet another conference call.

At present it seems probable that a final draft of the 2009 Concorde Agreement will be agreed and ready for signature in the coming days.

Whatever you think of Max, he is the smartest chap around. FOTA and all their fancy lawyers have fallen for his trap, hook, line and sinker. Not to say that FOTA have no other option but still...

McLaren Rulez · 9th July 2009, 23:33

FOTA's reaction (You'd have to live on Mars to not expect this after that FIA press release above). But I doubt if FOTA can out-think Max on this because he seems to have cornered.

autosport.com - F1 News: FOTA pushing ahead with breakaway

30th June 2009, 19:23	#136
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	Gracia hits out at 'disrespectful' di Montezemolo - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com Fair point actually, but that doesn't give Mosley the right to stay on.
	() Thanks

1st July 2009, 13:56	#138
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	I don't even see where the greed is coming from. The FIA president is not paid a salary (though I don't know if he gets some of the commercial rights money). Mosley's got a great reputation for boosting safety after 1994. He's got a very honorable retirement yet he chooses to make himself look bad. He sounds like a stubborn kid at times. I'm going to stop with my rant here or I'll end up being banned for what I feel like saying.
	() Thanks

6th July 2009, 22:48	#139
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	After Bernie's controversial comments on Adolf Hitler, PlanetF1 did this editorial. Bernie's Top Ten Dictators Sunday 5th July 2009 Bernie Ecclestone has been shooting the breeze and giving his views about the state of politics in the world. It turns out Bernie is not a great fan of wussie democracies and prefers the firm hand of a tyrannical leader to steer the planet's destiny. Here's Bernie's 'Best of' the world's dictators past and present: Adolf Hitler: "In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done."* Saddam Hussein: "We did a terrible thing when we supported the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He was the only one who could control that country."* Kim Jong-il: "They call him 'Dear Leader' don't they? Yes, he's an interesting man. Got a great sense of humour. Always likes letting off missiles on American national holidays. He'd be great on the World Motor Sport council." Pol Pot: "He was a big Ferrari fan because of all that Khmer Rouge stuff. We never got round to running a grand prix in Phnom Penh. He was a bit naughty at 'disappearing' his population. You'd turn round for a minute and that'd be another 10,000 gone." Robert Mugabe: "Bob is always on the phone trying to get a grand prix for Harare, but he hasn't got any money so I'm not interested." Joseph Stalin: "Like me he was a country boy - I was from Suffolk and he was from Georgia and we both had to put up with city types taking the mickey. I suppose we took different approaches - I put my rivals out of business, while he just annihilated his." Mussolini: "Wasn't he great at making the trains run on time. Silvio's not in the same league." Mahmoud Ahmedinejad: "Mahmoud is another great joker, he loves winding up the Israleis almost as much as I like upsetting Ron Dennis, but I think it's all done in fun just to get a few headlines." Max Mosley: "Max's great skill is being a dictator without anyone realising. He's great at working people, isn't he. You should see him and Alan Donnelly together - it's like Keith Harris and Orville. Not many people would be prepared to put their hand up there, either." Fidel Castro: "Lovely man, great beard, but he does go on a bit." * Incredibly, these two are verbatim quotes - the other quotes have not been verified and should be taken with a fair degree of scepticism. P.S. This is slightly OT but I didn't think it warranted a new thread. Besides, it does have to do with F1's future as we now know the strong points of other dictatorships that Bernie would like to introduce in F1 Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 6th July 2009 at 22:51.
	() Thanks

9th July 2009, 08:50	#140
muralisk BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore Posts: 711 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Looks like the dust is not yet settled in F1. I believe that the threat of a breakaway Formula One series loomed again on Wednesday after Ferrari and seven other teams walked out of talks in Germany. Read more - Threat of F1 breakaway series revived \| Top News \| Reuters
	() Thanks

9th July 2009, 10:32	#141
dhrishikesh BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mumbai / Pune B Posts: 806 Thanked: 214 Times	@ muralisk, I think the same as Bernie is really talking non-sense & he is going to loose much when ferrari & other seven teams withdraws from F1 !! Is Force India F1 is there in those seven teams which are withdrawing from F1 with Ferrari to participate in Ferrari's new series ??
	() Thanks

9th July 2009, 12:40	#143
pranavt Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,693 Thanked: 823 Times View My Garage	Back to square-one then. I was actually excited of this new series. Hope to see it happen!
	() Thanks

9th July 2009, 12:47	#144
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	So the breakaway is on! Or off. Or on. Or...
	() Thanks

9th July 2009, 21:56	#145
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	Max, you're a genius!! Well now here's the FIA with a press release that made me fall of my chair. 09/07/2009 The FIA has this morning issued the following statement in reaction to yesterday's events, not least the statement issued by the teams' alliance. Setting the Record Straight Before FOTA's decision to walk out of yesterday's Technical Working Group meeting, the President of the FIA wrote twice to the President of FOTA to remind him that any amendments to the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship regulations were subject to the unanimous approval of the five teams that had already entered for next season under the rules as published. This is because of the International Sporting Code and also because the entered teams have a contract with the FIA which not even the General Assembly or the World Council can abrogate. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of motor sport governance knows this. Imagine the uproar if, after the FOTA teams had entered, the World Council were subsequently to change the rules without asking them. It follows that the agreement of the five teams currently entered in the 2010 World Championship to all 2010 rule changes is required. To suggest that FOTA were only made aware of this during the meetings of yesterday is quite simply untrue. So is the implicit claim that they were all unaware of one of motor sport's basic principles. As things stand, the current members of the F1 Technical and Sporting Working Groups, in relation to 2010 are the teams which have entered the 2010 Championship. However the 8 FOTA teams were invited to the meetings in order that all 13 teams could agree the 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations which would then be the so-called 'stable regulations' in a new Concorde Agreement. The SWG took place in the morning on this basis and much progress was made. However in the afternoon the FOTA teams walked out of the TWG. Nevertheless the five entered teams were able to confirm the changes agreed by the World Council in Paris on 24 June, as announced yesterday. It has always been the FIA's understanding that the FOTA teams wanted a Concorde Agreement in place before entering the 2010 Championship. Once entered, the FOTA teams could no longer threaten a breakaway because of the contractual position mentioned above. The basis for the FIA agreeing to drop plans for a cost cap was the proposal prepared by the Williams team over the Silverstone weekend which would allow an agreed reduction of expenditure to the level of the early 1990s by the end of 2011 to be dealt with by the teams themselves. This reduction was agreed by FOTA and confirmed by them in Paris on 24 June. This would be a private, legally-enforceable contract involving all the teams, but not the FIA. The FIA confirmed in Paris that once this agreement is in place, the cost cap provisions can be removed from the 2010 Sporting Regulations. The deal that the FIA reached with FOTA in Paris was to extend the 1998 Concorde Agreement with some minor amendments to the governance section. This would have put in place an F1 Commission to deal with future rules with any major question going to the FIA Senate. However, on 25 June, instead of the 1998 Agreement with some minor amendments, the FIA received 350 pages of a completely new Concorde Agreement. It being wholly impractical to involve the Senate in such detailed negotiations, the contract was handed over to FIA lawyers, who worked on it tirelessly over the weekend 27-28 June and gave comments during a three-hour conference call on Monday 29 June. Then the 350 pages of 25 June turned out not to be the final FOTA/FOA version and elements of a new version appeared, partly on 2 July, partly on 3 July. Again, FIA lawyers worked over the weekend on 4-5 July, as did FIA President Max Mosley and FIA Deputy President (sport) Nick Craw. Further comments were then given on a three and a half hour lawyers' call on Monday 6 July and again in a conference call yesterday, 8 July, following the circulation of further drafts. Further significant progress was made yesterday evening in yet another conference call. At present it seems probable that a final draft of the 2009 Concorde Agreement will be agreed and ready for signature in the coming days. Whatever you think of Max, he is the smartest chap around. FOTA and all their fancy lawyers have fallen for his trap, hook, line and sinker. Not to say that FOTA have no other option but still... Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 9th July 2009 at 21:58.
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9th July 2009, 23:33	#146
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,415 Thanked: 5,254 Times	FOTA's reaction (You'd have to live on Mars to not expect this after that FIA press release above). But I doubt if FOTA can out-think Max on this because he seems to have cornered. autosport.com - F1 News: FOTA pushing ahead with breakaway Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 9th July 2009 at 23:37.
	() Thanks