[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by jkdas

* warning * You cant get one if your Safari is 2 years old !

Can it be rephrased to: You can buy extended warranty if you are outside your regular warranty.

There was also some 18months time frame for Safari EW purchase, not sure how true it is.

[amitk26]

well well i think m_upreti who asked the question owns a scorpio and not a Safari so terms and conditions of buying extended warranty and how much they honor the extended warranty can be entirely different.

[tsk1979]

There is a lot of stuff which is not covered by even normal warranty let alone extended warranty, and it costs big money to replace.
For example
Her bushes started showing signs of failure pretty early in life. for example anti roll bar bush gave way around 15K, but after lot of mails and calls, nothing was charged.
Then around 20k vehicle started giving strong jerk while accelerating in 4th and 5th gear, and at the same time wheel bearings failed.
I had to bear the cost of seals(900rs), while bearings were replaced under warranty.
When I went to Ladakh, the failing bushes gave away, and the jerks worsened, and at 31K or something I had to spend close to 4000rs for bush replacement.
After 5000kms, the jerks were back, so I decided not to touch anything.
Then later, the hand primer failed, and its not under warranty. 3K expense. Thankfully I got 10% discount.

Now with the vehicle just short of 50K mark, I am feeling some trouble on the disk front. I am told they can be replaced under normal warranty, and under Extended warranty, the service center will have to really push hard to get them replaced. I think Suman was able to get EW for the same.
Around 60K I am looking at some suspension work(10K?).

So in a few days, I go for a steering and brake checkup, and get everything problematic replaced, so that I do not have to go through extended warranty troubles!

Steering is also making some sounds, which have not gone away completely after center pin greasing too(though its much better).
Hopefully, its just minor things, because I intend to keep the vehicle for 2 years more(100,000kms), and hopefully, she will see a lot of tripping to remote places!

I will be posting the 50K update next week!

[theMAG]

Tan,

Hats off to the white elephant! Its done 50K kms while being diseased

[tsk1979]

Well Mag, after ECU/Head/Fuel pump/Injector change, the disease went out completely. Not she is just a middle aged white elephant

[suman]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

There is a lot of stuff which is not covered by even normal warranty let alone extended warranty, and it costs big money to replace.

That is a different story altogether

But then, look at where you travel to & the kind of punishment the vehicle puts up with.......

[tsk1979]

Yes, from that point of view, she has given good service.
But even though we travel to really remote places, I take very good care not to abuse the vehicle in any way.
No deep water crossings, no hitting the bottom, and very slow speed driving over rough roads. I guess thats why even with two ladakh trips and countless himalayan trips, the only rattle prone area is rear seat, but then the rear seat was like this from day one.
If you drive your vehicle very carefully, and do not try to "push it" to the limit, you can go to the most hazardous of terrains, and yet come back with a totally undamaged vehicle.

Other than that preventive maintenance has helped a lot. I escaped damage due to timing belt snapping because my habit of occasionally listening to the engine at night when there is silence all around revealed a strange sound. On detailed inspection, it was revealed to be due to a partially cut timing belt!

Right now the slight khat(which has gone very low in volume after greasing), and the slight roughness from left disk are the two things worrying me. At a noise workshop you cannot make out either of the two. But I have been driving her for last 50,000kms, and every tiny new sound is noticed by both me and my wife, and more often than not, it indicates to some bigger problem within.
So next week it is. MY TASS may call me finicky, but the more finicky you are the longer your vehicle lasts.
My aim, to have a less than 1rs/km repair and service cost(excluding tires) when she touches 100K kms!
And as we know, a stitch in time, saves nine.

[m_upreti]

Got the point, sorry for being out of context for a Safari thread, I meant it as a generic query as my Scorp is more or less similar to TSK's Safari as far as issues go. Thankfully I have not spent a single penny on getting the issues rectified till date as M&M has been picking up the tab consistantly.

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Well all warranty ( manu or EW ) is covered by insurance companies. The only difference is EW is between the customer and insurer whereas the manufacturer's warranty is backed by insurance policy given to manufacturer. Only that is not covered by insurance is if any goodwill warranty is given by manufacturer to customer.

Originally Posted by amitk26

well well i think m_upreti who asked the question owns a scorpio and not a Safari so terms and conditions of buying extended warranty and how much they honor the extended warranty can be entirely different.

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Can it be rephrased to: You can buy extended warranty if you are outside your regular warranty.

There was also some 18months time frame for Safari EW purchase, not sure how true it is.

[suman]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If you drive your vehicle very carefully, and do not try to "push it" to the limit, you can go to the most hazardous of terrains, and yet come back with a totally undamaged vehicle.

Its not only about visible damage, its about wear & tear based on the terrain. A vehicle which has done 25k kms only in city & highways will have less suspension wear than a vehicle which has done 25k kms in city, highways, dirt trails & rocky/potholed roads.

Ditto, for example, the clutch.

That is what I mean by punishment....may not always be visible but it is there.

[tsk1979]

Even that can be minimized.
For example as long as you are not half clutching at all, a vehicle on such terrains will suffer lesser damage than a vehicle being driven in Delhi flyover jams.
In city, roaring through potholes will do more damage than driving very slowly over broken roads.
Yes, bushes suffer, and a trail driven vehicle will require more frequent bush changes.
But as far as clutch is concerned, if trail driving is taking a toll on your clutch, then its time to change driving style.
For example, in the hills if I have to negotiage a sharp steep turn on trails, I shift to low ratio, and without any clutch input very slowly do so. People with 2WD have to use half clutch, no option for them there.
Considering that the only time my vehicle sees bad roads are on himalayan trips out of the 50,000kms maybe 10K are done on bad roads.
Rest have been done on paved highways and in Noida, where there are actually no potholes(really lovely roads).
I also avoid Delhi roads during peak hours, and hence I do not suffer the flyover torture. That is one place, where you clutch is abused. Uphill flyover jams mean a clutch life of 50-60K max. But guess what, the indica, which saw very steep mountain passes, and no roads, required clutch change at 100,000kms!
So if you are careful, you can contain the damage to stuff like bushes and all, and by regularly servicing, and preventive maintenance you can actually have the vehicle in top condition.
Though I have had lots of silly sensor and non trail related issues, the white elephant still drives like new without rattles because of this precise reason.
Be careful, and do not rush the trail. Even if your average speed drops to 5kmph, its okay. You will reach an hour later, but your vehicle will escape any major damage.

Another example, my brake pads still had some life left at 45K, but I got them replaced, no need to push till the end of life. They could have done 5K more, but then there was chance of them getting totally work and damaging disk, so I got them replaced.
I frequently hear of safari's which hardly do any mountain driving, yet need brake pad change at 30K.

So wear and tear, is very much dependent on driver, and only a small part of dependent on the trail!

[suman]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

But as far as clutch is concerned, if trail driving is taking a toll on your clutch, then its time to change driving style.

Yes, all that you have said sounds very nice in theory & we (the lucky few who have 4x4) all do pretty much what you've mentioned. In fact, it would be pretty stupid to engage 4L & then try half-clutching

But if you're telling me that you have NEVER EVER faced a half clutching scenario during all your mountain & desert sojourns, then I'd just say you're darn lucky

And what happens when you're stuck in one of those Manali town or Rohtang jams, on inclines where you have no option but to half clutch to prevent it from rolling back? For more than an hour at a stretch? Very very different from your city traffic jam situation & far more taxing on the clutch than your daily city driving conditions. And nothing to do with driving style.

In any case, the Safari's clutch is pretty robust so it doesn't really pack up. By the way, didn't I read about some clutch issues that you were having, are they resolved?

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by suman

....
And what happens when you're stuck in one of those Manali town or Rohtang jams, on inclines where you have no option but to half clutch to prevent it from rolling back? For more than an hour at a stretch? ....

Can't say I agree with this at all!
Never have I half clutched in such scenarios; it's always the hand/parking brake!

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by suman

Yes, all that you have said sounds very nice in theory & we (the lucky few who have 4x4) all do pretty much what you've mentioned. In fact, it would be pretty stupid to engage 4L & then try half-clutching

But if you're telling me that you have NEVER EVER faced a half clutching scenario during all your mountain & desert sojourns, then I'd just say you're darn lucky

And what happens when you're stuck in one of those Manali town or Rohtang jams, on inclines where you have no option but to half clutch to prevent it from rolling back? For more than an hour at a stretch? Very very different from your city traffic jam situation & far more taxing on the clutch than your daily city driving conditions. And nothing to do with driving style.

In any case, the Safari's clutch is pretty robust so it doesn't really pack up. By the way, didn't I read about some clutch issues that you were having, are they resolved?

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Can't say I agree with this at all!
Never have I half clutched in such scenarios; it's always the hand/parking brake!

As Anup said, hand brake to the rescue. I can count on one hand the number of times I have smelt clutch burn in my ownership.
As for clutch issues, right around 15K the clutch became very hard. Tata replaced it under warranty around 20K. The plates were fine, it was an issue with the hydraulics and probably some fluid contamination issue.
On the brand new clutch I faced a serious issue. The clutch pedal would not return. It was due to the spring of the clutch pedal.
After that I was suspecting clutch issues(with clutch pressed I would hear a chik chik sound). But it went away after hydraulic fluid change and bleeding.
I expect this clutch to last 60k kms, i.e till the vehicle reaches 80K on the odo.
Of course, with no hill driving, clutch will last 100K+

For example, the indica did see a lot of half clutching as I did not have the luxury of 4x4 and low ratio there. the clutch lasted 100K+!

[suman]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Can't say I agree with this at all!
Never have I half clutched in such scenarios; it's always the hand/parking brake!

Heh heh, bumper to bumper going up to the Log Huts last June, really didn't have the luxury (or space) of relying only on the Hand brake (never the most effective of stopping mechanisms for a 2 ton monster on a steep incline ).

And when I'm saying half clutching, its not that I was holding it continuously on the incline that way - stop-start in bumper to bumper going up an incline, you'd be doing a wee bit of half clutching at the point that you're inching forward...........

[tsk1979]

Been 5000kms since my last update.
She has done another ladakh sojourn in the last 5000kms.

Overall she behaved fine, though I had to drain the diesel sedimenter at Leh. Also cleaned the contacts.
Then I removed the air filter, and got it cleaned for 20rs.
Its good that the air filter can be removed easily in the safari. In the Indica its a big task due to tight engine bay.

New problems did crop up, relating to steering. The center pin bush had to be changed at 50300, and ditto for both the tie rods.
Total expense - A whopping 4077rs.

Cost of parts approx 2000rs
Cost of labor another 1500, and then taxes and all.
This 1500 included the 450rs wheel alignment, which is done by the workshop after tie rod change.

This is the second time tie rods have been changed, first was at 15000kms.
Suspension bushes will go on for some more, so left them untouched. I am not very happy with the bush weakness. The tie roads of safari are as wide as that of indica. I think Tata should have given her a beefier suspension. Esp on the bush front!

And guess what, center pin bush is fitted on a lathe outside the workshop, so normally for this you need to leave the vehicle overnight.

Coming to the RAW statistics
She has done 50236 kms according to my logbook.
Total fuel consumed = 4710.13 liters / 157976.58 rs
Average FE = 10.61
Fuel cost /km = 3.14
Repair cost/km = 0.72
If I include fuel/accessories and tires cost = 4.91/km

I guess time to put some pics









This Ladakh trip saw a lot more offroading, and a lot more remote terrain than last time. Almost got stuck too at one place. 2450kg is a lot of weight in sand!

Some rock crawling was also done, along with crossing over on girders.
Overall, I think the safari is one of the best touring vehicle, now only if they could fix this bush and suspension thing.
Other annoying niggles are dust coming inside, which was due to door beading, finally after multiple tries at TASS and all, fixed it myself when we discovered air coming in during a high speed run at leh.

A short video of the rock crawling capability

YouTube - Tanveer's 4x4 on the Agham - Shyok route.

That said, there are no rattles and all, and repair cost of 72p/km is also decent.
I guess around 80-90K she will start showing her age, and I guess 100,000kms on the odo may come before the 4 years are over.
That is the right time to sell a safari, because you can have all sorts of big expenses coming up, clutch, suspension etc.,