[vipul_singh]

Originally Posted by architect

The long and short of it is that my Palio MJD had to go for an engine overhaul..

Absolutely the right decision to go with the half engine instead of trying to machine / bore the engine and its internals. I fully hope that you would be able to get another 150K Kms from the overhauled one.

But I am surprised that this engine lasted such a short distance, even taking into account the operating conditions (heat, average speed) in India. My car (1.6 GTX) is now at 148K (over 13 years) and consumes around 750ml of oil over a service interval of 7500 KMs. Although there is zero smoke / oily residue in the exhaust and the engine sounds eager and smooth, with your experience I am not sure how long would the current engine remain healthy enough. Fingers crossed..

Anyhow, it is encouraging to see that the job was handled well by Kashyap (as always). I intend to chase Sharmaji when it is time to overhaul the engine.

[shajoshi]

Originally Posted by alfafan

Can you please share some additional details on the location of Mr.Vitthal's garage and how your overall experience has been compared to say Pandit Auto in overall service and care of your car

Vitthal's Garage is called Tavare Motors is located on the Mumbai-Bangalore bypass near Bavdhan - next to the DSK Toyota Showroom. The GPS location is https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/...!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Contact him at 9850811304

He has a lot of experience with Fiat cars as he used to work at BU Bhandari earlier. He has good channels to procure OE spares for Fiat cars, and does really service them with tender love and care. He is also very transparent about the costs for service and looks at satisfying a customer - which I found no other OEM Service Station coming even close to matching.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by architect

Okay the next post will be a long one, so I will write it at length. here's the sorter summary.

The long and short of it is that my Palio MJD had to go for an engine overhaul. The symptoms were there for the last 7000-8000 km (noise from piston rings on starting up till oil circulated, consuming about 1.5-2.0 litre every 3000-4000 km, smoke coming from dipstick, engine running slightly hot and general unwillingness to accelarate).
...

1,47,500 km. 7 years and 1 month up. A new life.

Interesting. Good to see you fixed this rather than selling the car. What prompted the turbo repair? Is oil consumption stopped completely now?

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

But I am surprised that this engine lasted such a short distance, even taking into account the operating conditions (heat, average speed) in India. My car (1.6 GTX) is now at 148K (over 13 years) and consumes around 750ml of oil over a service interval of 7500 KMs.

Yours is petrol, am I correct? Then why you worry? Petrol has much less wear and tear of the engine.

[fireblade007]

What was the engine oil change interval you followed? Was it 10000 kms or 15000 kms?

[architect]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Interesting. Good to see you fixed this rather than selling the car. What prompted the turbo repair? Is oil consumption stopped completely now?

I didn't go for turbo repair, I just got a reconditioned turbo as part of the engine overhaul and sent my old turbo back to Bharat Diesels in Manesar who will make another reconditioned turbo out of it.

Originally Posted by fireblade007

What was the engine oil change interval you followed? Was it 10000 kms or 15000 kms?

Service Interval is what is specified for Palio Stile MJD, 7500 km with mineral oil. I followed 7500 or even lesser depending on driving conditions.

The truth is my car was always serviced on time, the engine never gave any warning signals and it was also run-in properly. I don't know what caused the premature giving up, except perhaps my tendency to lug this engine at times in bumper-to-bumper traffic which I face a lot of. Also, at around 80,000 km, I had used semi-synthetic oil once (same as what is used in Punto / Linea) for about 8000 km and switched back to mineral. Even if that affected the engine, I don't see how it took almost 60,000 km for that effect to be noticed.

The only thing I did not do was clean the EGR.

[fireblade007]

Can you post a break up of the cost for the engine work? What was the price of half engine assay, lathe charges, labour charges, price of the turbo?

[architect]

Originally Posted by fireblade007

Can you post a break up of the cost for the engine work? What was the price of half engine assay, lathe charges, labour charges, price of the turbo?

I can upload it here if you wish. Will take some time.

[fireblade007]

I am using a sx4 deisel having the fiat multijet in 90 bhp form. Its just done 65000 kms. Out of warranty. Its consuming oil at a rate of approximately 250 ml per 1000 kms. I am a bit worried whether my engine is on the way to failure soon. Maruti says that maximum oil consumption for ddis is 100 to 150 ml(as per the words of the service manager at MASS). Checked compression which was normal. Cleaned intercooler. There was some oil in it. There is no blue or white smoke. There was a minute leak at the oil pan packing. It was sealed at 65000 kms. MASS has asked me to run 2000 kms and drain the oil to see the consumption. I am not in a position to change car now. If it needs a rebuild I would be going the reboring way instead of half engine assay. Half engine assay of sx4 is 90000 Rs approximately.

[architect]

Originally Posted by fireblade007

If it needs a rebuild I would be going the reboring way instead of half engine assay. Half engine assay of sx4 is 90000 Rs approximately.

Fireblade: Oil consumption could be due to many reasons. However, at only 65,000 km, it is possible that all you need is piston rings not everything. Of course, there will still be huge amount of labour involved. Is the car making "tak-tak" noises on starting when the engine is cold? That was the symptom that I ignored. Also, you could explore getting the job done outside of MASS. I suggest you wait for the oil packing pan changing results. Also, is the car overheating and is there oil (stickiness) in the coolant? Then it could be a head gasket failure.

[fireblade007]

I have a service pack from my MASS(given by the dealer not maruti).I paid 11400 for that. So I will get 3 years, unlimited kms free labour for any mechanical problem. Lathe charges is not included. I don't have to worry about labour charge. Sometimes during cold start I get a peculiar sound like you described. No overheating. Oil stickiness haven't checked.

[architect]

Originally Posted by fireblade007

I have a service pack from my MASS(given by the dealer not maruti).I paid 11400 for that. So I will get 3 years, unlimited kms free labour for any mechanical problem.

Here's a scan of the bill.

The power steering assembly was leaking for almost one and a half years now so it had to be changed (Rs 15071). Reconditioned turbo was used which saved about Rs 10,000/-. Labour at Kashyap for engine work was about Rs 12,300 and labour for lathe work was around Rs 3,895. Labour for AC service was Rs 2,870 including opening of dashboard. Evaporator coil was for Rs 4,296.

If you deduct the PS assembly, AC and clutch work and parts from the bill, You get a total figure of Rs 95,000/- or so just for engine overhaul. Considering a full half engine assembly being used and almost 12.5% taxes, its about Rs 85,000/- for the whole overhaul including labour. This was not much higher than the quote of Rs 70,000 odd that I got from a very good independent garage. So I went for it.

[architect]

What does one write after 7 years, 4 months and 1,53,000 km with a car? Either it becomes a glowing tribute to the mechanical achievements of the maker or it becomes a tale of 'incidents'or'rants'. On some occasions it also becomes a matter of justification of one's own decisions and level of enthusiasm or knowledge or persistence. I would have loved to write something entirely different but perhaps elements of all of these will creep in.

In April 2008, I chose this car over the Indica DiCOR (unrefined and reliability concerns), Swift Diesel (cramped rear and Rs 60,000 higher) and Getz diesel (atleast Rs 1.60 lakhs more expensive). The Figos, Puntos, Vista, Beat diesels and Livas of India did not exist at that time. This car was chosen for its mature road behaviour, excellent ride quality, decent handling, great steering and 'a small capacity engine with a big heart' (of course it is still a small engine and it shows at times).

In hindsight, the wisdom of that decision has been diluted to a large extent by the concerns of reliability and cost of maintenance. So, in a way, it is only human to take a decision more or less by heart and live with the surging as well as the ebbs of emotion later.

That doesn't mean that the car has been a disappointment or a mistake entirely. It has done daily drive duty for almost 7 1/2 years without break and continues to do so. It is the only car among four adults and also the beater car for my sister's family at times. In 8 years, the Alto has put in 1/3rd the mileage of this car on its odometer! It faces terrible traffic (those suffering traffic on NH24 from Indirapuram to South / Central Delhi will testify) and goes to all sorts of places for my work and pleasure. It is still reasonable well out together and the body noises that are present now have been present practically since the third year of ownership.

Besides city duties, it has travelled to Uttarakhand (four trips to Naintial, lakes area, Almora interiors with bad roads, Dehradun, Rishikesh and nine trips to Lansdowne), Himachal Pradesh (Mandi, Bir, Billing, Palampur, Una circuit, Rajasthan (four trips to Bikaner, Pilani, Kishangarh, Didwana region, Chittaurgarh, Bhilwara areas), Madhya Pradesh (twice- Indore, Ratlam, Mandu, Maheshwar circuit and Orchha Khajuraho circuit), Uttar Pradesh (three major trips to Kanpur, Lucknow areas) and the usual Delhi-Agra- Mathura- Neemrana short runs.

In all, there have been about thirty-odd touring runs with a twenty-three hour run from Indore to Delhi. A majority of these trips have been in the second part of the ownership, i.e. after 75,000 km mark. Despite the issues in the second part of the ownership (which you will read about next) the general confidence has come due to familiarity with the car and the fact that (touch wood!) it has not stranded me anywhere yet.

Then, of course, there's the jugular that many of you would like to go for: what was the cost of ownership, what all went wrong and how do you justify the loss of hair and time and peace of mind on these issues? The answer is that I do not justify something that has already happened. So you may judge it yourself. I will try and describe that part of the ownership here.

First and foremost, I was surprised with the need for engine overhaul at 1,47,000 km. What with services always being carried out before time, all filters maintained and replaced before time, timing chain etc all done at correct times and only good fuel from one bunk used, I was truly surprised. The only possibility I can see is the shift to semi-synthetic oil (two changes) for 15,000 km (which was done almost 60,000 km before the overhaul) or a little too much lugging in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Of course, I could have simply changed piston rings and survived if I would have had inkling of the sound when starting the car. But you live and learn. It became a full-blown overhaul job. It cost me a packet (almost Rs 95,000/- with a reconditioned turbo. Other works were replacement of leaking power steering assembly and clutch kit) and it has been the lowest point of ownership on this car. The bill for overhaul is there in the previous post.

Regarding the rest, it is simple. First 80,000 km and four years were a breeze! Just 3 or 4 parts failures, no suspension work required and about Rs 1.5 per km in total maintenance costs. The next three and half years have cost nearly 1.75 lakhs in maintenance. Tyres and wheels have cost nearly Rs 70,000/-. That makes it about four lakhs in all for 1.5 lakh km or Rs 2.5 per km. That is high. The figures, costs and exact parts that failed are mentioned in the excel file.

And then there's the overhaul and the accidents costing almost Rs 1.75 lakhs in all! So that's a lot of money! And it has pushed maintenance costs to Rs 3.6 per km. The good thing is that fuel costs have been below Rs 2.50 per km (thanks to cheaper fuel in the first few years). Average fuel efficiency over all seasons and conditions has been around 16.5 km/l. Insurance is cheap, too!

This is the first car I have owned, earlier experience with other relatives cars was rudimentary. What I have learnt from all this:

(a) Keep your eyes and ears open. Doing so has saved me money, not doing so has been my undoing.

(b) Do not compromise with parts quality (nothing has failed twice!)

(c) Accidents cause a lot of harm later (I lost a radiator and an intercooler which seemed okay after the accident but leaked a month or two later).

(d) Don't take yourself, or the car, or anybody's opinion too seriously! Concentrate on more important things in life, like your hobbies which are more satisfying than obsessing with cars.

Had I sold off the car at the end of four years, I would have (perhaps) saved the three-and-a-half lakhs on maintenance (assuming my luck would still make me have the accidents) and got two and half lakhs at most at that time from the sale. This six lakhs could have got me another hatchback like the Figo (if I had the four lakhs money up-front to spare then) on which I would have spent another lakh or so on maintenance. The new car would have a higher residual value of almost Rs 2.5 lakhs now (Rs two lakhs higher than the Palio's current value). In purely monetary terms, I have lost about a lakh or so in my love for this Italian car I suppose.

So, at this point, we have new tyres, new lower half engine and radiators, clutch, fans, belts, timing chains etc replaced. Important Original components still running are alternator, three wheel bearings and AC condenser. Perhaps we are good for another 2 years and 8 months before the NGT swoops in and calls me a criminal!

[tortoiseNhare]

Dear architect, 'me too' happened at less than 95000 K. Your 1,47,000 seem so good to me! Cylinders 3 and 4 were damaged due to which engine oil would degrade immediately after replacement, leading to a deposit of thick layers of mud like substance in the engine.

I have taken the repair route. Total involvement would be around 35,000 as per the rough verbal estimate given. I'm not too sure about the future reliability of the car but sort of playing a blind hand for once.

[vamsi.kona]

I would like to know if the rear crossrail of Palio Stile SDX fits Palio S10?

[architect]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

I would like to know if the rear crossrail of Palio Stile SDX fits Palio S10?

I am not aware of what a cross rail is. Can you elaborate?