[drpullockaran]

Extremely sorry to put a rusted spanner in this discussion but here is my advice after years of investigation on the net. No personal experience with either units.

What ever box you buy make hundred percent sure that in addition to varying the fuel flow by either increased rail pressure or increased injection open time the box should be able to vary the turbo pressure over the entire rpm range. If either box cannot vary turbo pressure with varying amounts of fuel being injected; save your money and look elsewhere especially if the engine has a diesel particulate filter like my Chevy CRDI/TCDI engines.

On last count there isn't a single manufacturer of tuning boxes that can achieve variable turbo pressure over the entire rpm range.
Remap is presently the only safe way to boost engine power; what ever others may tell you and brochures might claim.
Have a word with CPH(a member) of this forum before splurging on tuning boxes.

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by oxyzen

Reliability is of utmost importance here. You dont want to wreck your car for just the price difference btwn pete and spider.

Maybe I forgot to mention it but it is not just the price difference. The black exhaust smoke from Pete's box is also a concern to me. I am not sure if this black smoke from the exhaust is bad for the engine or not. If it is bad then how bad?

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

Do they make anything for the MIGHTY Pajero ?? Spider was supposed to happen - it did not, hence the Q

Cheers

Best thing would be to call the dealer and find out. They only have fitment partners in Chennai, Mumbai, and Coimbatore though. redroosterperformance.com has all the details. I think the piggy back ecu mods work only if an ECU is present right?


Apart from that I would really like some info on whether the black smoke from the exhaust from Pete's is really bad or not. Old Ambassador style smoke?
Also, is the smoke bad for the engine or is that something I should not be that concerned about?

Thank you all very much for your input so far!

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Aint one of the roles of tuning box to inject more fuel? (more smoke). So, unless its on the limits, is there a need to worry?. Unless the vehicle has DPF, and sorts. Please advise.

What is the defintion of limit? you can set the box to 2 stages. Stage 1 will throw up little less smoke and Stage 2 quite a lot

Nevertheless, under hard accelaration smoke is bound to come up in your review mirror.

Though modern diesels are supposed to come with DPF, I am not sure if all of them have it. From what I know, DPF is more harm than good.

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

What ever box you buy make hundred percent sure that in addition to varying the fuel flow by either increased rail pressure or increased injection open time the box should be able to vary the turbo pressure over the entire rpm range. If either box cannot vary turbo pressure with varying amounts of fuel being injected; save your money and look elsewhere especially if the engine has a diesel particulate filter like my Chevy CRDI/TCDI engines.

Doc, thats a highly technical explanation and also expectation. Power increment is as we know is through increased fuel injection or the improvement on valve time opening but, tell me which box manafacturer will confess it does not provide pressure varying over different RPM ranges?

Most buyers are not hardcore but, just enthusiast and for them what matters is BHP and Torque increment at a decent price not to mention reliability that adding the box not screw up the engine. And, these parameters are generally addressed by all box manafacturers so thats all that matters to the buyer.

Re-mapping is for hardcore enthusiast and getting it done and reverting back to stock settings is a painful task. Hence, people opt for the plug and play option of tuning boxes.

Can you elaborate which Chevy Engine your referring to and is DPF the stock filter or is part of the engine block?

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

Maybe I forgot to mention it but it is not just the price difference. The black exhaust smoke from Pete's box is also a concern to me. I am not sure if this black smoke from the exhaust is bad for the engine or not. If it is bad then how bad?

Apart from that I would really like some info on whether the black smoke from the exhaust from Pete's is really bad or not. Old Ambassador style smoke?
Also, is the smoke bad for the engine or is that something I should not be that concerned about?

Btw, its Black smoke from exhaust not the box itself. That should not be a concern as it in no way will effect the engine. The only issues with thick black smoke emanating from the pipe is :-

1. Major cause of embarrasment when you are under hard accelaration. In stage 2, you can actually see the smoke in your IRVM.

but, then if your not bothered about what happens outside as long as you enjoy the kick from the engine. It should be discarded as a deal breaker.

2. With a Pete's or anyother tuning box. Air Filter cleaning intervals go up and its best to clean them every 2k-2.5K kms. I used to DIY the cleaning and trust me lot of soot used to get collected on my green cotton air filter.

Overall, IMO tuning boxes are great enhancements for the price you pay if above two points dont bother you much.

Goodluck to all who are contemplating buying a "tuning box"

[VW2010]

I had the Petes in my Swift and thoroughly enjoyed everybit of the three years i had them. The kick in which usually gets used to after few weeks without the box, never failed to amaze me after the box was fitted.

Works only after the car hits the turbo and is great in highway when trying to move from 80-110 in few seconds.

You save around 1.5-2 seconds in this range. Atleast thats what i felt.

I clean my filters almost every 30 days or 1000kms and can definitely see an improvement in performance and lack of smoke.

Never tried multiple settings thought. One thing i always do is clean the filters everytime i clean the car. I just use a Vaccum cleaner or a simple tap to get the dust out. This helped a lot. I havent used the other box but would not mind recommending the Petes for a swift.

With my Jetta i have never felt the need for a tuning box. The current 2L TDI is a beast, beast enough for me

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Hi,
Could you please elaborate?.. Tnx!

Going nuts and dumping too much fuel leads to incomplete combustion and then it comes out as black smoke. Now in one engine (supposed to be modded for rally) the injection amount was made extremely high. The end result was engine seizure with one broken conrod.(for extreme end cylinder). It was a remap not tuning box and the testing was carried on a proper bench.
The causes that looked probable was
- high temperature coupled with more operating pressure.
- diesel getting accumulated and resulting into hydro-lock. (Doubtful but still possible)

Tuning boxes are probably safer as they don't dump excess fuel, nor do they change the injection timings. So such incident is highly in-probable but it is better to stick to tried and tested boxes.

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

I am not sure if this black smoke from the exhaust is bad for the engine or not. If it is bad then how bad?

Black smoke has 2 major impacts
1. The oil life gets reduced significantly. The soot holding capacity for engine oil is decided for normal engines.
2. More carbon deposition in combustion chamber, intake (for EGR models) & exhaust manifold.
3. But is is the tubo that takes the major blow in most cases.

Bottomline - Smoke is bad. Bad for engine, bad for environment, bad for your image. Well it does not mean your car engine will be dead after 25K kms, but surely the usable life of the engine has reduced. I dont know may be by 30%.
Then you are not always accelerating extremely hard. So dont worry, a sporadic 0-100 dash is not going affect.
A box without black smoke means, less gain in torque in general. A remap without black smoke means, better tuning!

Personally I will never install a box in my new car. I will get it once the car is past its midlife.

Originally Posted by VW2010

With my Jetta i have never felt the need for a tuning box. The current 2L TDI is a beast, beast enough for me

You know what they say. Power is never enough. It is always good to have more.

[Ricky_63]

Nice to know the /\ my remapped Octavia (from Pete's) does not give out any black smoke for the past 30,000 kms, it behaves like stock till you shove the accelerator hard ! I see no downside on the remap...


Cheers

[ByDesign]

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

Thank you all very much for your input so far!

No one here has mentioned the race chip?

Chiptuning von RaceChip - die Powerbox für sicheres Motor Tuning

You'll be saving a lot of money. There are a few t-bhpians who have fitted these on their diesel cars with superb results. I'm considering getting one for myself soon. I'm waiting for a friend to come down from Germany. I've done a big comparison between tuning boxes in India. You can see my post here -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post2316006

See if they have one for your car. They respond to emails pretty quick. Shipping is 45 Euros to India.

And here's a t-bhpians thread. This guy got the race chip. Driven loads with it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...eak-linea.html

Hope this is helpful

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Can you elaborate which Chevy Engine your referring to and is DPF the stock filter or is part of the engine block?

I have the Cruze and it has the DPF. The first thing I am going to do after the warranty period is remove the DPF and tune the ECU at Bangalore.

[Endeavour333]

SPIDER DIESEL TUNING BOX REVIEW:

Alright gentlemen, after considering all the my options, taking into consideration all inputs from the very helpful forum members I got the Spider Diesel Tuning box installed on my Endeavour 3.0 4x4 AT and IT IS AWESOME.


A little background on how I got to this point:

I'm just 23 year old guy that absolutely loves cars. I just got my first job, my first car, and as most car crazed guys my age would do I wanted more Power! I had driven previous Ford Endeavours that were family owned for family usage but this one was mine and mine alone. Such a great sense of pride from owning my own car.

I had some friends that got performance modifications done to their cars but I thought that it was a very small grey market type operation. I did not for even one second expect the car modding and tuning market to be as well developed as it is! About a month ago I found out on Team-BHP about IgNite Garage and got my first ever performance modifications there soon after. I got the turbo pressure Increased, along with a K&N air filter and fully synthetic Mobil 1 oil. The performance increase from the mods was amazing but I wanted to push the envelope even further.

Then I read about this so called "Tuning Box", which claims horsepower increases of 20%!For about 2 months I had been obsessing over what mods I should get, doing research, making calls to different dealers of performance parts, and was even looking for some all terrain tyres to put on my beastly Endeavour. After all that I finally settled on the Spider Diesel Tuning Box and I am so very glad that I did. (Tyre search still continues though)

Tuning Boxes in contention were: Pete's (Rs. 31,000), Spider (Rs. 24,000), Race Dynamics (Rs. 19,999), and Race chip (~15,000 but have to order from Abroad).

Chose the Spyder over Pete's because:
1. Black smoke from the exhaust for Pete's
2. Spider has more tech, more advanced
3. Higher claimed performance increase
4. Spider is adjustable, came specifically tuned for my Endeavour
5. Sounds cooler

Chose Spider Over Race Dynamics because:
1. Only Reason: RD Tuning box available only in bangalore so no support in Chennai if something goes wrong

Didnt choose Race Chip because I didnt want to deal with the headache of ordering it from somewhere else and then having to fit it myself. The Race Chip Pro looked like a really legitimate bit of kit though. Higher claimed performance improvements than all others too. Also I wouldn't have had any support if anything went wrong with it.

So in the end, I chose the Spider Tuning Box and am definitely loving it so far. I've had it for 5 days so far and have done about 250 km.

The Review itself:
Red Rooster Performance is the dealer for the Spider tuning box in India. They luckily had one in Chennai so I contacted the dealer (Feroz: 9600092553) to and he offered me a test run with the box.

One major thing with the Spider Tuning Box to note is that the Performance increase is not instant! The box has some 'Adaptive-Scan' technology that takes a while to adjust itself to your Engine before it really starts to deliver. The website tells you that it takes50 miles until the Spider box fully adjusts itself but you will see most of the gains within the first 15 - 20km itself.

After looking forward to the test run of the spider box for so long I had finally got a chance to try it out. I took my Endeavour to Electra Automotive (Red Rooster Performance dealer) on OMR and met Feroz to try out the box. Looking under the hood, Feroz determined that the connector pins from the ECU were the same 3 pin configuration as the Maruti Suzuki Swift's so he decided to try out the Swift's tuning box to see if that would work.

Upon testing with the Swift Box, we discovered that every time the RPM gets to about 3,300 the engine would cut off and come back on. This happened multiple times and it was concluded that this was due to the increased turbo pressure mod I had done earlier. The engine was apparently creating too much turbo pressure so it was shutting itself off when it got too much. This was also apparently the cause of some black smoke from the exhaust that started after a few minutes of driving. Needless to say, that scared me quite a bit. I asked if these problems were associated with the fact that he was using a Swift's box for my Endeavour and he said no because the tuning box automatically adapts to whichever engine it is connected to. I think it is just the connector pins that vary from car to car.

Regardless of this little black smoke-engine stopping hiccup, I decided to go for the box anyway as I was quite hungry for the extra power! It took me about a week before I got the turbo pressure reverted to stock and went back to Electra Automotive to give it another try. This time, Feroz told me that he had been to Bangalore and had tried the box out on a stock Endeavour of the exact same model and had tuned it properly for the car. The Spider box has some RPM and Power settings once you open it up that can be played with, although I would not meddle with them myself, I know that they are there. I suspect these settings are what he must have altered. He also said that he has set it so that it makes 15% more power/torque in 1st and 2nd gears so that it is driveable in traffic and 30% more power/torque in 3rd gear and up.

So anyway, we set of on our first drive with Feroz at the wheel and honestly I did not feel much of a difference in power. I was quite dissatisfied. I knew about the power and RPM settings in the tuning box so I asked him to increase the power setting. Feroz assured me that it has been tuned appropriately for the car and that the performance will increase as I drive the first 50km. I was somewhat skeptical about this but he said to call back in a few days if I am still dissatisfied at which time he would mildly increase the turbo pressure (less than what I already had). Feroz was a real nice guy but I left the shop with mized feelings. The car felt even slower than with the initial increased turbo pressure mod and I paid 24,000 for this???

I was driving to work straight after that and the performance was increasing noticeably every KM I travelled! After about 20km I was so in love with the performance increase that I called Feroz and told him that I wont be seeing him next week because my car had truly transformed into a BEAST.

All I can think of to describe the feeling of accelerating with that is... it just felt like cream(lol). Just so smooth, so consistent, non-stop acceleration. The car behaves like normal for about the first 20-30% if pedal travel but afterwards the performance just surges in and smacks you in the face like a tsunami. My brother commented on the feeling saying that it feels like my dad's BMW 525i or like an Airplane taking off. I couldnt agree more. I just love my car now. And also, no black smoke whatsoever.

Some Important Points to Note:

The first time you attach the box and take the car for a drive the performance gains are almost nothing. Do not fret because this is just the adjustment period in which you should do a few KM atleast, after which you NEED to switch the car off completely and restart it (In my experience). Only then will the box start delivering its promised performance. All I'm saying here is that do not be discouraged if you do not see immediate performance gains after fitting the box. Drive it around a few KM, stop, restart, and try again. The performance really does start to surprise you after about 10 KM or so and just keeps on building until about 20-30 KMs by which time your car will have realized most of the gains. Amazing performance gains and definitely the best value for money when it comes to performance enhancements.

I hope this was a pleasant read and that it helps someone looking to purchase a Tuning Box someday.

-Vishnu

[avishar]

First of all i must thank you for that detailed account of your experience in fitting the tuning box,in recent times it has been hard to come by such write-ups in the modifications section!

First of all how did you get that turbo pressure increase done?That would have involved changes in the ECU to increase the boost pressure isnt it?And how much was it increased to?

All engines and the components in the stock form are designed to work in the optimum efficiency in a certain engine load,temperature and pressure and all that directly affects the reliability and performance.So when you wrote about how the Swift Tuning box coupled with the increased boost pressure was automatically shutting off the engine,that was very scary to read.IMO it should have been avoided at all cost,because obviously the engine had reached its limits!

Other than that,this "adaptive" tuning box thing is something new.I guess the spider tuning box takes into account the readings of the 02 sensor,pressure sensor,turbo rpm,fuel injection quantity and adapts its "performance map" accordingly?I must say pretty impressive!

Thank goodness there was no black smoke,and if possible do attach a pic of the tuning box/engine bay.

Happy (modified) motoring

[Endeavour333]

Originally Posted by avishar

First of all i must thank you for that detailed account of your experience in fitting the tuning box,in recent times it has been hard to come by such write-ups in the modifications section!

First of all how did you get that turbo pressure increase done?That would have involved changes in the ECU to increase the boost pressure isnt it?And how much was it increased to?

Thanks Avishar, it took me a while to write! I still ended up making a lot of typos though. Damn.

Regarding increased turbo pressure, I gave my car in to IgNite Garage here in Chennai and i'm not too sure what they did but it sounded quite complex. Involved some calculations and such. Whatever they did it felt really good and the car ran better than ever. I loved it, but just could not help but think of how much more powerful my car could be if I installed the tuning box. Greed for power and curiosity have been the two main factors that have led me to this stage.

Originally Posted by avishar

All engines and the components in the stock form are designed to work in the optimum efficiency in a certain engine load,temperature and pressure and all that directly affects the reliability and performance.So when you wrote about how the Swift Tuning box coupled with the increased boost pressure was automatically shutting off the engine,that was very scary to read.IMO it should have been avoided at all cost,because obviously the engine had reached its limits!

Other than that,this "adaptive" tuning box thing is something new.I guess the spider tuning box takes into account the readings of the 02 sensor,pressure sensor,turbo rpm,fuel injection quantity and adapts its "performance map" accordingly?I must say pretty impressive!

Thank goodness there was no black smoke,and if possible do attach a pic of the tuning box/engine bay.

Happy (modified) motoring

The Spider Diesel Tuning box is definitely one of the most advanced tuning boxes available to us at the moment and the tech is what attracted me to it the most. I'm not sure what it monitors exactly and the adaptive-scan technology is certainly very reassuring to have. There's way more tech in the little box! Here's the website if you want a little more detailed information:

Spider® diesel tuning.

The Engine stopping was certainly very very scary! I was so close to quitting on these tuning boxes for fear of buggering up my new car but I went ahead with it anyway.

I have already taken pics on my iPhone. Will upload soon. You cant really see the Spider box well in the pics that I have but i'll try to get better ones soon.

[Endeavour333]

Some Pics of my car and the Spider Tuning Box. Will get better pics today.

[Endeavour333]

Internet is really slow right now so cant upload more than 2 or 3 pics at a time sorry.

[Endeavour333]

Does anyone know how Edit the thread title? I want to edit it to say that the review and pics of the spider box are on page 2 of the thread.

Thanks in advance.

[oxyzen]

Congratulations on getting the box installed. Just make sure that you dont continuously stress the engine. And do go in for a quicker oil change.

Originally Posted by Endeavour333

He also said that he has set it so that it makes 15% more power/torque in 1st and 2nd gears so that it is driveable in traffic and 30% more power/torque in 3rd gear and up.

That is bogus. You increase the power and torque of an engine with a tuning box. The transmission has no role in it. The engine never knows which gear you are in. It knows the current RPM and the throttle position. And according to these inputs it develops a certain amount of torque. Transmission is out of question.

Originally Posted by avishar

All engines and the components in the stock form are designed to work in the optimum efficiency in a certain engine load,temperature and pressure and all that directly affects the reliability and performance.So when you wrote about how the Swift Tuning box coupled with the increased boost pressure was automatically shutting off the engine,that was very scary to read.IMO it should have been avoided at all cost,because obviously the engine had reached its limits!

Tuning box is a lot lot safer than increasing turbo pressure. But a tuning box with increased turbo pressure is a no go.
As far as I can understand increasing Turbo pressure was a remap. And the engine was operating under extreme conditions. Increasing it further by a tuning box, might have resulted into going to a fail safe mode. I am speculating.

BTW did you notice any increased turbo lag with increased turbo pressure?